Jump to content


Welcome to Ultimate Subaru Message Board, my lurker friend!

Welcome to Ultimate Subaru Message Board, an unparalleled Subaru community full of the greatest Subaru gurus and modders on the planet! We offer technical information and discussion about all things Subaru, the best and most popular all wheel drive vehicles ever created.

We offer all this information for free to everyone, even lurkers like you! All we ask in return is that you sign up and give back some of what you get out - without our awesome registered users none of this would be possible! Plus, you get way more great stuff as a member! Lurk to lose, participate to WIN*!
  • Say hello and join the conversation
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get automatic updates
  • Get your own profile and make new friends
  • Classifieds with all sorts of Subaru goodies
  • Photo hosting in our gallery
  • Meet other cool people with cool cars
Seriously, what are you waiting for? Make your life more fulfilling and join today! You and your Subaru won't regret it, we guarantee** it.

* The joy of participation and being generally awesome constitutes winning
** Not an actual guarantee, but seriously, you probably won't regret it!

Serving the Subaru Community since May 18th, 1998!

Guest Message by DevFuse
 

Photo
- - - - -

Timing belt change question...


  • Please log in to reply
22 replies to this topic

#1 Mjez

Mjez

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 71 posts
  • Northern Illinois

Posted 08 February 2006 - 02:27 AM

Hi all,



I recently bought ’95 Subaru Legacy with 2.2 l engine, car has 127k miles and I’m not sure when was the last time timing belt was changed. I called dealer and they want $450 for this job, sounds too much. I was wondering if someone here either knows a good Subaru mechanic in north Chicago suburbs area that you can recommend, or how difficult is timing belt job if I wanted to do it myself. If it’s not too complicated and I decide to do it myself what needs to be replaced and what’s the best place on the net or in Chicago area for parts. I’m kind of new with Subaru and I don’t really know much about this car so please help me with this project. So far I’ve only been working with BMWs in my garage and Subaru is totally new to me.

All responses are appreciated.

Thank you



Matt

#2 2X2KOB

2X2KOB

    Subaru Fanatic!

  • Members
  • 393 posts
  • Midstate MO

Posted 08 February 2006 - 03:37 AM

If you have ever successfully changed a timing belt on anything else, you can do this one. Do a forum search and read about the process a bit - it's not too difficult.

#3 The Dude

The Dude

    Certified Subaru Nut

  • Members
  • 808 posts
  • South Carolina

Posted 08 February 2006 - 07:24 AM

Plus, your 95 2.2L should be a non-interference motor. With an interference engine you only get one shot to get the timing belt right.

#4 illanrob

illanrob

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 35 posts
  • Alabama

Posted 08 February 2006 - 08:28 PM

The 2.2L engine has the easiest timing belt to change in the Auto World. Have done it 3 times to my 93 Legacy 153kmi, once for the water pump. The first time is the worst because the crank-pulley bolt is so tight that it takes a lot of force to get off. Then after loosening the belt tensioner the new belt barely fits. If you somehow missalign the belt marks with the three pulleys, you will know right away the engine will idle really rough but it should start right away. So what I do is install the belt and start the motor and look at the belt spin, the water pump runs of the timing belt, the engine idles normal now, tighten bolt, install the covers and accessory belts.

Caution!! if you do not stop the motor with the 3 timing marks on top of each pulley, the camshaft may be in the wrong position, pulleys will have no free play and if they rotate you will have a harder time to reposition them correctly to place the belt correctly. Expect 3 hours your first try, 1.5 hours the second time. Cost $40.

Robert Illan

Hi all,



I recently bought ’95 Subaru Legacy with 2.2 l engine, car has 127k miles and I’m not sure when was the last time timing belt was changed. I called dealer and they want $450 for this job, sounds too much. I was wondering if someone here either knows a good Subaru mechanic in north Chicago suburbs area that you can recommend, or how difficult is timing belt job if I wanted to do it myself. If it’s not too complicated and I decide to do it myself what needs to be replaced and what’s the best place on the net or in Chicago area for parts. I’m kind of new with Subaru and I don’t really know much about this car so please help me with this project. So far I’ve only been working with BMWs in my garage and Subaru is totally new to me.

All responses are appreciated.

Thank you



Matt



#5 Mjez

Mjez

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 71 posts
  • Northern Illinois

Posted 09 February 2006 - 12:47 AM

thanks a lot for all the info. I'm doing now cylinder head gasket on my '90 BMW 325i and it takes up a lot of my time but once I'll be done with it my next project will be Subaru. Do you guys know of a good source to buy parts from. I've been buying parts from BMAautoparts.com for my BMWs in the past and they also have parts for Subaru so I guess I'm gonna have to check it out.
thanks for all your help

Matt


The 2.2L engine has the easiest timing belt to change in the Auto World. Have done it 3 times to my 93 Legacy 153kmi, once for the water pump. The first time is the worst because the crank-pulley bolt is so tight that it takes a lot of force to get off. Then after loosening the belt tensioner the new belt barely fits. If you somehow missalign the belt marks with the three pulleys, you will know right away the engine will idle really rough but it should start right away. So what I do is install the belt and start the motor and look at the belt spin, the water pump runs of the timing belt, the engine idles normal now, tighten bolt, install the covers and accessory belts.

Caution!! if you do not stop the motor with the 3 timing marks on top of each pulley, the camshaft may be in the wrong position, pulleys will have no free play and if they rotate you will have a harder time to reposition them correctly to place the belt correctly. Expect 3 hours your first try, 1.5 hours the second time. Cost $40.

Robert Illan



#6 NewKens1

NewKens1

    New User

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 23 posts
  • NewKensington

Posted 09 February 2006 - 09:04 PM

Hi all,
Please buy a HAYES manual. It can be a real help. I changed the Timing belt at 105000. It was not really difficult but it is time consuming. The most important thing is not to move any of the pullys or you will throw the engine out of time. My total cost of materials was less than $100. I also changed the water pump. If you don't, Murphy's Law will prevail. Also check for any oil leaks. When you have the front covers off you can check the oil seals.

NewKens1


I recently bought ’95 Subaru Legacy with 2.2 l engine, car has 127k miles and I’m not sure when was the last time timing belt was changed. I called dealer and they want $450 for this job, sounds too much. I was wondering if someone here either knows a good Subaru mechanic in north Chicago suburbs area that you can recommend, or how difficult is timing belt job if I wanted to do it myself. If it’s not too complicated and I decide to do it myself what needs to be replaced and what’s the best place on the net or in Chicago area for parts. I’m kind of new with Subaru and I don’t really know much about this car so please help me with this project. So far I’ve only been working with BMWs in my garage and Subaru is totally new to me.

All responses are appreciated.

Thank you



Matt[/quote]

#7 edrach

edrach

    RIP 6/28/14

  • Members
  • 12,326 posts
  • Bothell, WA

Posted 09 February 2006 - 09:49 PM

I would suggest buying OEM parts only for that repair (www.1stsubaruparts.com is a good source for parts). Also, figure that with the mileage you have that it would likely be a good time to replace the water pump; the labor is the same and it's not likely to last until the next time you do the belt. It's also likely that one or more idlers will need replacement. The $40 estimate is for the timing belt and nothing else I suspect. Good luck with it.

#8 rweddy

rweddy

    1000+ Super USER!

  • Members
  • 1,408 posts
  • Castle Rock, CO

Posted 10 February 2006 - 12:54 AM

[quote name='NewKens1']Hi all,
Please buy a HAYES manual. It can be a real help. I changed the Timing belt at 105000. It was not really difficult but it is time consuming. The most important thing is not to move any of the pullys or you will throw the engine out of time. My total cost of materials was less than $100. I also changed the water pump. If you don't, Murphy's Law will prevail. Also check for any oil leaks. When you have the front covers off you can check the oil seals.
Matt[/quote][/quote]
Do not buy a Hayes or Chilton, they are total crap. Get a factory service manual and if you have mechanical experience you can change the belt very easily.
Also change the water pump, and re-seal the oil pump.

#9 Mjez

Mjez

    USMB Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 71 posts
  • Northern Illinois

Posted 10 February 2006 - 02:47 AM

what about the timing belt pulleys and tensioner? should I chenge them too while doing timing belt?

thanks again for all your help

Matt

#10 edrach

edrach

    RIP 6/28/14

  • Members
  • 12,326 posts
  • Bothell, WA

Posted 10 February 2006 - 03:08 AM

what about the timing belt pulleys and tensioner? should I chenge them too while doing timing belt?

thanks again for all your help

Matt

Pulleys should be changed if they feel bad once you have it apart. Tensioner can be reset if you have a very sturdy vise. You could get a used tensioner at the local pull a part yard and re-set it yourself and re-use it (they don't wear out).

#11 grossgary

grossgary

    Elite Master of the Subaru

  • Members
  • 20,561 posts
  • WV

Posted 10 February 2006 - 07:17 AM

easy job. well worth doing yourself and you'll know you're doing it right. a mechanic will charge $450 and just change the belt. do it yourself and you get good info or doing water pump, oil pump seal, and pulleys while you're in there. replace any pulleys that are not tight (like a new pulley would be). if you can't take the car down for long, get all new pulleys and replace whichever ones you need and then return the others. replace the water pump while it's all apart since the timing belt has to be removed to replace it. oil pump seals are easily accessible and take a few minutes once the belt is off, i'd replace those as well. i'd get Subaru belts and oil pumps seals. the rest is up to you. on an interference engine i'd get all Subaru but yours isn't interference so it might be worth a try for aftermarket parts if you want to save $.

#12 Jim Ma

Jim Ma

    New User

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 8 posts
  • Raleigh,NC

Posted 07 March 2011 - 07:37 AM

First, get a service manual. You need a chain wrench to hold the crank pulley
to loosen the crank pulley bolt. Buy a timing belt kit,Gates or AC Delco are good
The 2.2 is a clearance engine ,meaning if the belt fails the pistons won't hit the
valves. I use . autopartsgeek.com, bmaautoparts.com, Rockauto.com Etc.
I would replace the cam and crank seals ,water pump ,timing belt kit.
The tensioner should be ok for 300k. use torque wrench on everything(In Lb),
(Ft Lb). Don't touch the oil pump unless it is leaking. If you work on BMW this
is a piece of cake. JM

#13 johnceggleston

johnceggleston

    Lite Master of the Subaru

  • Gold Subscribers
  • 6,536 posts
  • Virginia

Posted 07 March 2011 - 08:18 AM

First, get a service manual. You need a chain wrench to hold the crank pulley
to loosen the crank pulley bolt. Buy a timing belt kit,Gates or AC Delco are good
The 2.2 is a clearance engine ,meaning if the belt fails the pistons won't hit the
valves. I use . autopartsgeek.com, bmaautoparts.com, Rockauto.com Etc.
I would replace the cam and crank seals ,water pump ,timing belt kit.
The tensioner should be ok for 300k. use torque wrench on everything(In Lb),
(Ft Lb). Don't touch the oil pump unless it is leaking. If you work on BMW this
is a piece of cake. JM


i'm not completely comfortable with all of the info in this post.

first, not all 2.2L engines are non-interference. 90 - 96 are but 97 - 00 are interference.

second, holding the crank pulley / harmonic balancer with a chain wrenh does work, i've done it, but it can damage the pulley creating another problem. besides there is an easier way to do it and you don't have to buy a tool.

see this:

http://www.ultimates...64&postcount=46

and finally, the old style tensioner is very reliable but the new style has a shorter life span, in my opinion. do not assume it is good.

Edited by johnceggleston, 07 March 2011 - 08:23 AM.


#14 1-3-2-4

1-3-2-4

    Subaru Mike!

  • Members
  • 3,737 posts
  • Greenwich

Posted 07 March 2011 - 07:50 PM

[quote name='rweddy'][/quote]
Do not buy a Hayes or Chilton, they are total crap. Get a factory service manual and if you have mechanical experience you can change the belt very easily.
Also change the water pump, and re-seal the oil pump.[/QUOTE]

Agree 1000X you can find the FSM for the 1995 Subaru (I have it) the FSM made it a breeze.. the only part that messed me up which took me longer then 1 hour was I did not see the little arrow marks on the cam and more so the crank.

If someone has not said here before don't go by the white marks!!

but the FSM takes care of it better then any of those off the shelf repair manuals.

#15 ocei77

ocei77

    Eat, Live, Breath Subaru

  • Members
  • 578 posts
  • Monticello,NY

Posted 07 March 2011 - 08:36 PM

While the store manuals, may be crap to some, they are a lot better than nothing and worth the $20 IMO.
Of all the talk, no one pointed a link to OP for an online FSM!
If he works on BMW's he can do a Suby.
I don't have the link to the FSM and the files exceed the size limit.
If no one points you to link, PM me with your e mail and I will send you the 2.2L manual.

O.

#16 1-3-2-4

1-3-2-4

    Subaru Mike!

  • Members
  • 3,737 posts
  • Greenwich

Posted 07 March 2011 - 08:50 PM

Here is the file here..

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=GTA8UESX

It's not anything wrong with the hayes it just not go in depth for the timing belt.

#17 987687

987687

    Rally Suby!

  • Members
  • 3,757 posts
  • Northern Maine

Posted 08 March 2011 - 12:20 AM

I personally like the FSM better than the haynes. I have both, and always go to the FSM. It's better organized, the info is easier to read and more clear, and right to the point. Especially with things like head gaskets, it's no BS info.

#18 bheinen74

bheinen74

    Banned

  • Banned
  • Pip
  • 0 posts
  • central Iowa

Posted 08 March 2011 - 12:27 AM

There's a threaded hole for a 10mm bolt to thread into to hold the crank in lock position to loosen the crank pulley bolt. Not many people on here mention it, but since I learned of it, is very very very very very very valuable info.......
No problem loosening the crank bolt knowing this.
-btw, the hole is on the passenger side of the bell housing about half way down, mid of the side.

****key thing is the head of the bolt must be tapered to a "sharpened pencil point like tip" not a flat bolt, so you can get the bolt into the recess of the gear on the flywheel.*****

Haynes, the others, have been known to give wrong procedures, wrong torque figures, etc, even saying the crank bolt torque shoild be 72lb ft, when it reall needs be 127lb ft. This wrong procedure has been shown to ruin crankshafts. Dont use anything but a FHI manual for stuff like this. mkay

Edited by bheinen74, 08 March 2011 - 12:32 AM.


#19 987687

987687

    Rally Suby!

  • Members
  • 3,757 posts
  • Northern Maine

Posted 08 March 2011 - 12:30 AM

There's a threaded hole for a 10mm bolt to thread into to hold the crank in lock position to loosen the crank pulley bolt. Not many people on here mention it, but since I learned of it, is very very very very very very valuable info.......
No problem loosening the crank bolt knowing this.
-btw, the hole is on the passenger side of the bell housing about half way down, mid of the side.


I was wondering what that's for! Sweet! I just used the starter to break it loose. Then to tighten in I stuck two bolts in the holes in the pully and used a pry bar to keep it still while I used my other arm to torque the bolt... PITA.

#20 bheinen74

bheinen74

    Banned

  • Banned
  • Pip
  • 0 posts
  • central Iowa

Posted 08 March 2011 - 12:33 AM

make sure you see my edit on the taper bolt not a flat end....Do not forget to remove the bolt after torquing. Leaving that bolt in could cause much chaos if you started the car with it in still.

ShawnW, i now this works on the manual trans cars, do you see this thread to say if it is for auto too?????

Edited by bheinen74, 08 March 2011 - 12:35 AM.


#21 johnceggleston

johnceggleston

    Lite Master of the Subaru

  • Gold Subscribers
  • 6,536 posts
  • Virginia

Posted 08 March 2011 - 08:21 AM

(thanks, google images)


Posted Image

#22 bheinen74

bheinen74

    Banned

  • Banned
  • Pip
  • 0 posts
  • central Iowa

Posted 08 March 2011 - 09:22 AM

thats the hole to thread the tapered bolt into.
thanks. Don't think anybody has brought up this topic on here til now. Thanks

#23 davebugs

davebugs

    I don't "friend"

  • Members
  • 3,112 posts
  • Pittsburgh suburbs (NE)

Posted 08 March 2011 - 09:27 AM

Someone posted that maybe a month ago?


I was shocked. I've done many, many HG jobs and engine swaps and never realized those holes were there - or usable for this.

Then again I have made a proper tool for the harmonic balancers of 2.2 and 2.5's so I didn't have a need.

Still amazing what a fella can learn here.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users