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ea81 rear torsion bar beefy enough? / wheelbase widening


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18 replies to this topic

#1 scrap487

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Posted 01 March 2006 - 10:26 PM

been thinking about ideas for maximizing travel out of the rear... I was thinking about moving the rear torsion bar forward a bit(more like alot...) and building some type of longarm setup to get more travel out of the rear... not considering axle angles, is this feasible? what other things do I need to take into consideration, or am I thinking about this all wrong, or is it less work and better just to go to a live axle setup?

detailed imput appreciated, as something like this will be in the near future.
thanks

#2 ezapar

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Posted 01 March 2006 - 10:31 PM

not considering axle angles,


You should consider axle angles.

#3 scrap487

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Posted 01 March 2006 - 10:45 PM

yes I know, strain on them is going to be incredible, and I have some ideas how to deal with that; one of them being fabbing up new mounts for the differantial to keep it in the stock location, maybe drop it just a little bit to allow a little more droop.


anyways...

#4 Numbchux

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Posted 01 March 2006 - 11:55 PM

the axles are the #1 concern in reference to travel. It's a good idea, but you'll need to drop your diff considerably in order to allow downflex.

the other consideration is shocks. you'll need to find something that'll allow that much flex. as that is what is limiting the travel now (if you got longer travel shocks though....you'd have axle problems)

#5 scrap487

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Posted 02 March 2006 - 12:52 AM

the axles are the #1 concern in reference to travel. It's a good idea, but you'll need to drop your diff considerably in order to allow downflex.

the other consideration is shocks. you'll need to find something that'll allow that much flex. as that is what is limiting the travel now (if you got longer travel shocks though....you'd have axle problems)


meh, I dont have a problem dropping my differantial, I can make a skidplate I can bash the hell out of(I need one anyways). I have 6" of lift, I forget exactly what the specifications of the shocks I used are, but I have somewhere around 12-15" of travel in them I believe. right now the only thing they limit is the travel up, and my tires will rub the crap out of my fenderwells before they bottom out.

maybe use a differant type of halfshaft? have one made that can handle high angles? I imagine it would cost probably 200-300$ to have one made.

but OTHER THAN AXLE ANGLES, I want to know if my idea for gaining travel out of the rear is the way to go.

#6 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 02 March 2006 - 01:30 AM

Sure - Porsche 930 CV's, and slip-yoke axles would easily get you 20"+ of travel. Now building them and making them work with our diffs and traling arms.... that's another story. Don't think I haven't thought long and hard about this. hehe

GD

#7 scrap487

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Posted 02 March 2006 - 02:28 AM

how is it people get giant amounts of travel out of toyotas and nissans that are IFS?

#8 carfreak85

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Posted 02 March 2006 - 03:14 AM

how is it people get giant amounts of travel out of toyotas and nissans that are IFS?


They don't have trailing arms for one thing and their wheel wells are much deeper than ours so they can stuff the tires for more compression travel.

#9 scrap487

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Posted 02 March 2006 - 03:32 AM

i wouldnt think the trailing arms would be a limiting factor if you made them longer. compression travel is solved by more lift, differant shocks, dropped diff, all of which is easy to do...

#10 Numbchux

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Posted 02 March 2006 - 03:32 AM

what I'm trying to say, is if you've found a way around the axle problem, you're idea sounds great!

#11 scrap487

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Posted 02 March 2006 - 03:36 AM

what I'm trying to say, is if you've found a way around the axle problem, you're idea sounds great!


:banana: :banana: :banana:

my major concern is how much longer can the torsion bar take? cause if I fab up a trailing arm that is say 3 or 4 times the length of the current one, doesnt that put more leverage and stress on the torsion bar? would it also cause for a softer ride, or would it be about the same after I reclocked it?



and honestly, aside from dropping the differantial or going to a solid axle setup, I havent solved the axle problem, I just want to see what other issues would also need to be addressed :)

#12 scrap487

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Posted 02 March 2006 - 04:59 AM

okay I might be a little bit far out on this one....

I was looking around at some later model toyota long travel kits, most of them were designed for baja/desert racing type applications. many of them widen the front stance of the vehicle to gain more travel out of the ifs...

to do the same to a subaru I imagine it wouldnt be all that hard, rather than using an offset, or an angled strut top extension to correct the camber when lifting a subaru, building a longer control arm or a arm or whatever its called instead, or depending on how far out you want to go offset/angle the strut extensions the wrong way. I know longer arms have been discussed in the passed but I'm not sure if it was considered as a way to get more travel out of the front vs trying to correct bad camber.

now that I think about this its not that crazy of an idea, I'm kinda surprised I havent heard of anyone trying it out yet. the only con I can think of when doing such a thing is reducing the subarus ability to stradle obstacles, but I dont see that becoming a huge problem; and also making tight fits just a little bit tighter. one thing that could be done to help counter act some of this is rims with more backspacing.

well tell me what you guys think, my subaru is about to become my daily driver, and if enough people think its a good idea, I'll be trying it out.

[edit] forgot to mention/think about axles... would need to have axles lengthened most likely which I cant imagine being too expensive; custom made axles($$$); or axles/hubs/stubs from a differant vehicle...

#13 Numbchux

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Posted 02 March 2006 - 05:06 AM

forgot to mention/think about axles... would need to have axles lengthened most likely which I cant imagine being too expensive; custom made axles($$$); or axles/hubs/stubs from a differant vehicle...


bingo....that's why it hasn't been done before

but, like the other thread, It's all good ideas! The reason that a wider stance allows better travel is the longer axles.

I wouldn't, however, go trying any of this on your daily driver. for a couple reasons, it will reduce everyday driveability, and it could easily put you out of commision for extended periods of time


btw...it looks like we're the only ones still awake :cool:

#14 Numbchux

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Posted 02 March 2006 - 05:09 AM

well, I don't think the torsion bar could hold up the car with the extra leverage. depending, of course, on how much you lengthen it.

so just convert to EA82 coil-overs. it complicates that shock-finding process a bunch, but completely solves the rest of your problem

#15 scrap487

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Posted 02 March 2006 - 05:21 AM

I wouldn't, however, go trying any of this on your daily driver. for a couple reasons, it will reduce everyday driveability, and it could easily put you out of commision for extended periods of time


so... that means I should? :brow:

btw...it looks like we're the only ones still awake :cool:


got too many cool ideas going through my head.... and I'm halfway coherant so they're finding their way out just a little easier :grin:

#16 scrap487

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Posted 02 March 2006 - 05:27 AM

so just convert to EA82 coil-overs. it complicates that shock-finding process a bunch, but completely solves the rest of your problem


I'd rather go live axle first I think... I dont know much about the ea82s rear suspension setup, but the only way I could see getting large amounts of travel out of it is adapting some kind of double wishbone setup(I think thats what it is... kinda tired right now)... and yes, shocks would be a huge problem... maybe find a way to fab up coil spring mounts seperate from shock mounts and do away with the struts all together?

#17 scrap487

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Posted 02 March 2006 - 06:26 AM

ok... theres a really good driveline shop kinda near where I live, I'm pretty sure they can modify some halfshafts for pretty cheap, probably even rebuild them better than most reman'd shafts you can buy too. so I'm gonna consider a mod like this next on my to-do list after I get my lift blocks welded and tied together, seeing as i already have bad camber :banana:

edit: also would it be safe to make them a multi peice unit, to allow for a camber adjustment? thinking kinda set it up like an oversized turnbuckle... if not maybe I could make some to use just for an allignment rack so I can get the measurements totally accurate.

#18 chazmataz

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Posted 02 March 2006 - 11:52 AM

[quote name='scrap487']
how is it people get giant amounts of travel out of toyotas and nissans that are IFS?

Theses rigs including ford and chevys can't get huge amounts of travel out of IFS systems thats why you see people modifying them to solid axles to get travel, you are limited to your axles, and control arms. Now if you are refering to offroad racing vehicles if you ever look at one close they are highly modified( nothing is stock) and are usually in the upwards of $100's of thousands of dollars too. the only cost effective way to do that for the average recreational wheeler is solid axles with coil springs. look at your rockcrawler rigs

[quote name='scrap487']
also would it be safe to make them a multi peice unit, to allow for a camber adjustment? thinking kinda set it up like an oversized turnbuckle... if not maybe I could make some to use just for an allignment rack so I can get the measurements totally accurate.

yeah this is something that can be done but strength might be an issue, i modified my lower control arms on my Datsun 510 when i was road racing to adjust camber this way(Heim Joint) but then i wasn't going over logs, rocks and into unknown mudholes either.

#19 subestyle18

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Posted 02 March 2006 - 04:20 PM

I've contacted a couple companies that make high angle cv's and you can get the joints for around $150 a set that can handle a constant angle over 30 degrees. So $300 an axel and you still have to built the ends and what not. I've read about cvs that can do 50 degrees so they are out their if you have the money. I was thinking about going to more of a universal joint type but that hasnt proven to be any cheaper and most are just to big to fit. Some day though it would be nice to run 6 inchs of suspention lift. But untill then i can have all the fun want in my 83 with 28"s. Wheeling is more fun then wrenching anyways.
David




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