89 replies to this topic

[daeron]

BTW this is a quote from my original post in this thread:

"But obviosly the uncovered belts work fine for the most part. Preferencce thing"

that is all I have to say.

I know, that was my point. no need to keep going at it. thanks for taking it the right way, man.. I hate to wave my finger at people who I look up to for assistance, and I appreciate that it doesn't get taken the wrong way.

[WoodsWagon]

Aside from our little pissing match going on here,

In the northeast, you often don't have a choice about running covers. The heads on the 10mm bolts have rusted to the point you can't turn them, the bolts are seized in the brass inserts, and everything is jammed together. It's not just EA82's, it's the EJ's too. By the time you have the covers off, it's not worth saving the pieces.

I have skipped the t-belt on my EJ22 hammering snow plow piles. That is one skip out of 100's of off-road trips, mud holes, river crossings, fields ect.

I am putting covers on my next engine however. I had to collect parts from 3 other engines to get one set of covers.

[GeneralDisorder]

I am not rich either. But c'mon? you're not seriously arguing for neglecting regular maintainence? Timing belts are not expensive either. Especially for those like us who do our own work

It's not *just* the belts that the covers deny access to. It's the tensioners, idler, water pump, and cam seals - all of which I have had to replace and they take hours less time without the covers. If taken as a whole the belts are an insignificant portion of the price of all those parts together - even purchased at discount you are looking at about a $200+ parts collection JUST to insure you don't have a premature failure. In reality the water pumps will last 200,000 or more with properly tensioned belts, but if going off the sugested maintenance they *should* be replaced when the timing belts are done. Which I agree with IF you plan to use the covers. That's a lot of wasted money but when you ride out the part lifetime to it's extreem you *do* run the risk of an over the road failure. But it's cheaper for me in the long run to have my AAA membership and just replace the occasional failed part than to replace things needlessly that are still good. That of course is a preference thing but I don't like like wasting my money or my time - thus no belts saves both.

GD

[keltik]

A belt here is over $100, each idler is $30 so running without t-belt covers has much higher risks. If my covers were on, every component on the front of the engine could be about to fall off and i wouldnt know. Without them i can take a quick look and know instantly if my water pumps leaking or an idler is seizing up. Thats the benefit i get from running without them.

All those shiny spinning parts make the car just a bit more interesting too.

And thats my .02

[Gloyale]

That of course is a preference thing but I don't like like wasting my money or my time - thus no belts saves both.

GD

well, no belts saves money anyway.

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

...
All those shiny spinning parts make the car just a bit more interesting too.
...

I Think Those are Key Words!

[psylosyfer]

I really like the idea of using tie wraps! Then a pair of dykes with your 12mm socket and your good to go.
In spite of the convenience of running with no covers, We are all obviously hands on car owners. My point being (as Baccaruda mentioned) how much time saved is worth the risk of a MAJOR injury if you, your clothing, hair. Or ANYTHING gets between a belt and pulley? These aren't smooth belts on a spring loaded tensioner like a serpentine, Tight non giving toothed belts will take a thumb or whatever faster than you can realize you put it where you shouldn't while setting timing or any other adjustments that require a running engine. Any one here who HASN'T rub up against a hot pipe or lost some knuckle on an alternator fan etc. While your looking at the tool in the OTHER hand? And if someone ELSE is helping or supervising (like guy's around open hoods do). Can you spell "lawsuit"?
Not to mention the chance of anything besides a rag falling in there might fling into your face or your radiator!! Why not the best of both worlds and use the zip ties? On the other hand what's life without a little risk?

[psylosyfer]

That's not the issue. The issue is that IF and WHEN they do break - due to foreign object, age, or mileage - some of us prefer to have a spare set on hand plus a 12mm socket ($18 for both) and be able to replace them in 15 minutes - rather than spend several hours screwing with the covers, crank pulley removal, and probably towing the vehicle from wherever it broke down.

Screw the covers.

GD

Can you really get belts (even without a socket) for $18??? Please tell where!

[WoodsWagon]

http://www.ultimates...ead.php?t=72792

That's my coverless t-belt experience.

[Sonicfrog]

http://www.ultimates...ead.php?t=72792

That's my coverless t-belt experience.

Oh, 91L, that's priceless!!! ....but since I'm not sludging through snow banks anytime soon, and since I've had a couple of roadside repairs that were a breeze in the absense of covers, I'm still voting for nekked T-belts.

[mrroot]

I've forgotten to update this, but I decided to ditch the covers myself. And I've been running without problems for thousands of miles now, and I like being able to keep an eye on everything. Tension and belt checks are a 5 second job now. Easier to see oil and water pump leaks. And really, the arguments about safety are questionable in my mind. For one thing, the timing belts are buried down against the engine -- you'd rip a finger off on one of the serpentine belts first. Anyhow, glad the thread's been getting so much love - seems everyone has their reasoning.

Cheers

[mikeshoup]

This is a battle that'll never die. Never ever Never die.

If you want to run open belts, run open belts (personally, I did on both my EA82s)
If you want to run closed belts, run closed belts.

I like being able to change the belts in a matter of minutes without fracking with the covers. I can understand though the worry of foreign objects, snow, hair, hands, etc. (Tip: Only work on your car while its running if necessary. It almost never is.)

[daeron]

This is a battle that'll never die. Never ever Never die.

If you want to run open belts, run open belts (personally, I did on both my EA82s)
If you want to run closed belts, run closed belts.

I like being able to change the belts in a matter of minutes without fracking with the covers. I can understand though the worry of foreign objects, snow, hair, hands, etc. (Tip: Only work on your car while its running if necessary. It almost never is.)

to paraphrase the great Forrest Gump, "That's all there is to say about that."

LEAVE THE COVERS OFF!!!!!

[Ginger48]

If you install cheap Chinese belts and idlers, it’s absolutely necessary to leave the covers off. If you install quality parts and replace all the seals, you can leave the covers on.

[scoobaholic]

quote=msteel;470149]

Well, I closed everything up and cranked it over, but it turned over really rough and wouldn't start. It turns out, a piece of the dust seals fell off the cover while putting the cover back on (it was the piece next to the water pump where you can't see a thing). So when I cranked it over the piece of rubber must have traveled around the cam sprocket and put it off by two teeth before falling into the bottom of the covers. The belts were fine but it took at least an extra hour to take it apart and redo the belts and covers.

Conclusion that supports covers off:
If I had left the covers off I wouldn't have had this problem.

Conclusion that supports covers-on:
Getting something as soft as a piece of rubber in your belt can make the car not run, without breaking the belts.


P.S. I triple checked the timing marks before I put everything back together to make sure I had it right. That's my story and I'm sticking to it![/quote]





[quote name='Loyale 2.7 Turbo']

I Absolutely Agree with You!

[/quote]


Wish I read this way before my boyfriend/personal mechanic started on the timing belts... Exact same thing happened to my '87 gl wagon !! It would've saved him time and me the grief of hearing him call her 'the hunk of junk' after working on her for 2 days...No matter what he says...I still love my scoobyru and him even more for resurrecting her:)