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6x6 buggy


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30 replies to this topic

#1 DJtheGOD

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Posted 08 March 2006 - 10:52 PM

Ok all other of my projects('86 Leone RX Coupe into a Ute,Subaru powered Trike and Rotary into a Legacy) have beeen put on the back burner because I have decided what I am going to do first and that is a 6x6 off road buggy made from Subaru parts...
Here goes the idea EA82T and gearbox in the front then short drive shaft(just long enuff to seat two people) to another gearbox locked in 4th(one to one I think) then outta the rear of the to a rear diff,thus giving me 2 4 and 6 wd (and the possibility of the rear set either pushing the front or being pulled by it) thinking maybe 6x6x6 (all steerable) but will get the 6x6 running first...

Man I hate having all those old Subies lying around giving me these bloody ideas..:grin:

DILLIGAF
DJ

#2 Sweet82

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Posted 09 March 2006 - 11:24 AM

I'm having a problem with the 6 part?
One to one locked in 4th?
I'm still trying to figure out what your talking about there?

Build it!:burnout::burnout::burnout::burnout::burnout: :burnout:
Glenn,
82 SubaruHummer 4X4
84 GL Mad Max 4X4
01 Forester 4X4
none are 6X6:rolleyes:

#3 Zefy

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Posted 09 March 2006 - 12:23 PM

I'm having a problem with the 6 part?
One to one locked in 4th?
I'm still trying to figure out what your talking about there?


i'm pretty sure he's got something going on like this...

normal front mount engine and trans. the fwd axles being used for driving wheels. instead of the 4wd output shaft going to a rear diff, it is going to another trans. it will be locked in 4th gear so it will be a 1:1 gear ratio so it will match the very front diff in the first trans. then on the second trans axles are ran, along with a rear diff like normal with the 4wd output shaft... giving it 6wd!!!

this is a really sweet idea! its gonna be a heavy freak too!!!:-p

if i were you i'd use something with a little more ooph like an ER27 or something. a turbo motor might have trouble with that thing at low speeds. and that thing is gonna be built for low speeds it seems.:D

i would also be looking into gutting the second trans. running it in 4th gear means you can take a LOT of gears out... (actually almost all of them...)

can't wait to see how it all turns out!:)

#4 DJtheGOD

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Posted 09 March 2006 - 01:40 PM

Zefy
You have it exactly right the second trans will be locked in forth gear I will leave the other gears in there just in case I want to run the rear end as a pusher(change it to fifth) or being pulled by the front end(change it to 3rd) also gives me possiblities should I fry the front trans...
yeah it will be for low speed(well maybe 50mph) running...
I may have access to an ej33 outta a SVX as we just got one for NZD1200 which is about USD 600 but the engine was going into our jetboat...

DILLIGAF
DJ

#5 redscab

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Posted 09 March 2006 - 02:04 PM

the 2 closest I know of are:

1:1.029 '79 4WD 4th
1:1.088 RX Turbo D/R 4th

#6 NVBigBlue

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Posted 09 March 2006 - 02:07 PM

DJ,

You might want to look at this:

http://www.edge.au.com/buggies_6x6.htm


EDIT: I found this link on the Edge site.... http://members.dodo....chke/my_8x8.htm

The guy is using a suby rear end....

Maybe not exactly like they do it, but might be a good place to start. I thought about doing the same sort of thing, but just driving two wheels directly and using chain on the others axles. Two things I thought about were to use an auto tranny to avoid clutch and shifting issues....and the other was to use the tailshaft output to drive a prop out the rear. Leave in 2wd on land, 4wd on water to engage prop.....

Also, unless you plan on running suspension on it, 50mph in a tire suspension only, skid steer unit is pretty hairy. My MAX II does about 40 flat out and scares the crap outta me. I normally run around the 15 - 20 mph range and the ride is acceptable depending on road condition, but I'm always leery on turns.....that thing will swap end so fast it makes your head spin!
Be careful.... and good luck,
NV

#7 Subarian

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Posted 13 March 2006 - 03:04 PM

Cool idea, but I would consider using full-time 4wd transmissions. Less shifting, and you could wire both diff locks to one switch.

#8 DJtheGOD

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Posted 13 March 2006 - 06:53 PM

yeah fulltime 4WD would be the ultimate but I dont have any at the moment also front one an auto would be good as well..

#9 Subaru Jim Maple Ridge

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Posted 14 March 2006 - 10:53 PM

Would it not make more sense to use a single transmission with a pair of chaincases? You would be able to choose your gear ratio and steer like a tank if you wanted. You would also be able to position your motor and tranny anywhere you want and either frontwards or backward.

#10 catsoup

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Posted 15 March 2006 - 03:13 AM

Should be good slow fun ( can you have that???) if you set it on weight sharing air suspension. and he doesn't have access to my eg33.

#11 DJtheGOD

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Posted 15 March 2006 - 01:54 PM

Would it not make more sense to use a single transmission with a pair of chaincases? You would be able to choose your gear ratio and steer like a tank if you wanted. You would also be able to position your motor and tranny anywhere you want and either frontwards or backward.


Jim I think we have a difference in our thoughts about what a buggy looks like.Your idea is very good a skid steer 6x6(or 8x8 or how many you want) for slow go anywhere amphibian vehicle,My idea is a bit more like a beach buggy with full suspension able to do full road speed maybe on air suspension...

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#12 DJtheGOD

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Posted 15 March 2006 - 01:56 PM

Should be good slow fun ( can you have that???) if you set it on weight sharing air suspension. and he doesn't have access to my eg33.


We shall see about the EG33 it would be the perfect engine/trans for it tho:brow:

DILLIGAF
DJ

#13 Subaru Jim Maple Ridge

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Posted 15 March 2006 - 11:20 PM

I have some mid engine 2WD auto dune buggys to build first, but the amphibious 8 wheeler sounds very worthy. If you don't mind, I think I'll use your idea. And to think I was going to build a Chaser for snow blowing.

#14 mikie

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Posted 16 March 2006 - 02:55 AM

the 2 closest I know of are:

1:1.029 '79 4WD 4th
1:1.088 RX Turbo D/R 4th


Like the man says, 4th gear isnt 1:1 ratio.

What about: mid mount the engine, use the fwd axles to drive the middle wheels, use a really short driveshaft to drive the rear diff and rear axles, and chain drive from the pinion of the rear diff to a driveshaft runing to the front diff/axles ? Minimal extra weight. Or throw a nissan 720 or lada niva transfer case in there.


A chap i know built an amphib vehicle with a an ea81 engine, fwd drive shafts driving the wheels and the rear driveshaft going to a single stage jet unit. Results were poor, the wheels gave a lot of drag and the gearing hurt the jet unit, the lack of power was no help either.

Ive thought about 6x6 many times, mostly cos i like the idea of lots of big tires, and mad max is the definitive offorad construciton guide. But for practical use 4x4 is still the best imho, 6x6 will add weight and drivetrain losses, and reduce the risk of getting hung up on really rough ground, but that pros dont outweigh the cons. Its just the looks :D

#15 Zefy

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Posted 16 March 2006 - 03:10 AM

4th gear is pretty much 1:1... if i'm not mistaken 4th gear just connects the input shaft from the engine directly to the output shaft going out to the diffs... completely ignoring the layshaft which has all the gears on it... so theoretically it is 1:1...:rolleyes:

i think the .03-.08 difference is due to slop in the gears...?

but really... this thing is going to be for beachs and sand and stuff right? a .1(tops) difference isn't going to make a big deal... the tires won't have enough grip to worry about it anyway...

#16 DJtheGOD

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Posted 16 March 2006 - 01:07 PM

Like the man says, 4th gear isnt 1:1 ratio.

lada niva transfer case in there.
Its just the looks :D


Yeah I know 4th aint quite 1:1 but it close enuff for wot I want to do..
Funny you should mention a Lada that is another of my many project vehicles(needs a clutch at the moment) and your exactly right about the looks I am guessing that it will go pretty good off road but it is gonna LOOK like it will go anywhere and that is just as important as it actually going anywhere...:headbang:

DILLIGAF
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#17 Matty B

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Posted 16 March 2006 - 10:17 PM

but the engine was going into our jetboat...

DILLIGAF
DJ


Talk to me about this please... I will Pm you.

#18 zyewdall

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Posted 17 March 2006 - 12:08 AM

What if you solved the power and gearing problem by making it a two engine beast? One drives the front wheels and middle set. One drives the back set via a transmission with the rear output shaft removed. Would require some syncronizing of the transmission linkages and throttles and clutches, but it would have some omph with the two engines, plus a certain amount of redundancy, because it would be able to operate with just one engine in case one failed (if you decoupled the tranny linkages to keep the one for the non-running engine in nuetral).

#19 Zefy

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Posted 17 March 2006 - 02:38 AM

me and subaru jim (well it was actually all his idea but i really like it) were talking about how to set up using two engines... this was going to be for a boat application but i don't see why it wouldn't work for a car too...

synchronizing two engines running two different sets of wheels is hard... you can imagine why... so his idea was to have the two engines sitting one in front of the other... then connecting the output shaft of the engine up front to the engine behind via an electic clutch attached to the crank pulley of the engine behind... there now your two engines pretty much have to run at the same speed! the engine behind will be connected to your trans like normal! you can even turn the front engine off when cruizing to save gas...:brow: (hence why you can see this is perfect for a boating application)

the front engine won't need any accessories like an alt... because the engine behind can generate pleanty of power to run both... and if the engine behind breaks... you got a parts engine right in front of it! if the front engine breaks... disengage the electic clutch and you go home slowly...:D

then wham... use two ea82's and now your pushing a little over 200hp!:)

lol... use this setup and you're going to have a LONG buggy...:-p

but just some ideas to think about... (i'm pretty excited about the boat idea though... would be cool...:D) sorry jim... i've spilled your plans!:-p

#20 Mr Fishums

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Posted 17 March 2006 - 04:06 PM

That sounds sweet, :cool: I hope it comes out good it should tear it up in the woods.....

You've sparked my mind now, and have me thinking to find a GL wagon and combine it with my parts hatch to make a 6x6 like this one!!!!!

Posted Image

#21 Zefy

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Posted 17 March 2006 - 04:12 PM

is that real? it looks kinda photochop-ish...

it looks sweet! i want one!:D

#22 Mr Fishums

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Posted 17 March 2006 - 04:14 PM

Yeah I photochopped it :D My skills must be rusty normally people can't tell so quickly.....

I think that I would go about that idea, by making the middle differential case out of Two Diff cases. That would give it a PTO to the rear one. Yeah that sounds confusing.... but in my mind it somehow works hahahaha!

When I am done with my Hatch, I think I will get started on it.... Not sure how the DMV will react to it though!

#23 Zefy

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Posted 17 March 2006 - 04:16 PM

it was the door that gave it away for me...

i seriously had to look at to figure it out! good work!:)

#24 johnceggleston

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Posted 17 March 2006 - 04:51 PM

if you use an awd trans in front to drive the front wheels and let the rear drive shaft drive all the rest as you first suggested, you could use the "fwd" fuse placement to disconnect the rear 4 wheels making it easier to travel from home the beach. youd be pulling more weight and therefore run slower, but you wouldn't be pushing all 6 wheels all the time. just when you wanted. any binding due to the gear ratios wouldn't mean much in the sand, and wouln't exist on the road.

4th gear is pretty much 1:1... if i'm not mistaken 4th gear just connects the input shaft from the engine directly to the output shaft going out to the diffs... completely ignoring the layshaft which has all the gears on it... so theoretically it is 1:1...:rolleyes:

i think the .03-.08 difference is due to slop in the gears...?

but really... this thing is going to be for beachs and sand and stuff right? a .1(tops) difference isn't going to make a big deal... the tires won't have enough grip to worry about it anyway...



#25 75subie

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Posted 17 March 2006 - 11:01 PM

steering might also be a problem with the 4 wheels in the back, i know that was always a problem with the 6 wheeled toyota motorhomes.

if you could get rid of that problem, it would be sweet!:D especially if you did it on a hach for a short wheelbase, it would probly go over anything:D i was thinking about putting dual rear wheels on the 78 brat with whale fenders and stacks, it would look like a big rig:lol:




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