wrxsubaru Posted October 25, 2003 Share Posted October 25, 2003 Ok lets see how much was spent on his supra, blown haed gasket, replcaed with a metal one $500,(Mk3 supra have a worse problem with blowing there head gasket than any other car i know) extremley resitive ehust replaced $500, boost controler, $30, bow off vale $30, tires to get the power to the ground like $400, how dfast is his car low 14s, high 13s, to get his car faster he has to get the turbo upgraded $500, complet new fuel system, fuel pump, injectors, rechiped ECU, $1500, and he would probley only be in the mid 13s, its hard to get the car faster than that on street tires. He not that close to a STI he never said he could keep up with a STI, he dosent really think he could keep up with a forester turbo. Corey spent about $1400, on is supra and it doesent run near as relible as a STI would. I ment it would be hard to get the 300z turbo to run relible 13.0sc quarters. Stock the sti would w300z turbo, a wrx would be a competer on a race course with a 300z twin turbo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrxsubaru Posted October 25, 2003 Share Posted October 25, 2003 Originally posted by SuBaRallyVovo Just look at Coreys supra! It took him what 26$? to get the boost controler thing and go WAY faster! And this 300z would smash on his car! And he even talks about how he thinks he could beat an Sti! hmmm... uhhh.. this is Corey, and I never said **** about my car being faster than an STi, I'm not that stupid. Yea, it's true that I only spent like $26 to make a "boost controller thing" but its not like that is the only thing I have done. I have a 3in exhaust ALL the way back from the turbo, with a built in custom 3in elbow on the downpipe. If I just put a boost controller on and no mods to the exhaust, the car would not be NEAR as fast, turbos run on exhaust (obviously) and the stock exhaust is restrictive as hell. Plus the car would probably end up leaning out and I woud **** the **** outta my head, yea.... Why do you talk about **** you don't know....My car is faster than a stock TT 300z, but not an STi!! and YOU were tellin me that EVO 8's are SLOW! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperRallyRoo Posted October 26, 2003 Share Posted October 26, 2003 I was just tryin to piss of Dan chill! LOL:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperRallyRoo Posted October 26, 2003 Share Posted October 26, 2003 OH and corey! We can't forget about that little AM PM Parking lot Insident where u almost backed up into my 1967 volvo 1800S that is in mint condition.:madder: U realize I would have murdered u right? :temper: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slideways Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 I go out of state and away from my computer for a few months, only to return and find people bashing each other, not discussing the facts like adults. Being a true automotive enthusiast means appreciating all cars for what they are. An STI and 300ZX TT are two entirely different cars created with drastically different ideas in mind as to what the cars are intended to do. Therefore I see no point in bickering over details such as modability, top speed, etc. I'll stop my ranting now. If I didn't love my AWD, I would not mind driving the Z. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperRallyRoo Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 Us 3 know each other... Its I like to argue with em. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slideways Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 IC, my bad. Carry on then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chip Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 Here's another road test link..http://usastreetracing.com/library/archive.htm I'm willing to bet that there are very few pre-1998 cars,(other than exotics), which would out-accelerate the STI. The only American would would be the Viper. Even a 96 vette would lose a 1/4 mile race against a STI..13.3 vs 13.1 for the STI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impreza555 Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 STi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTDogg Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 This was linked to me over at TwinTurbo.net. Fantastic read, thanks a ton. Slideways has a very good point. "An STI and 300ZX TT are two entirely different cars created with drastically different ideas in mind as to what the cars are intended to do." But if you were talking about street, ummm, playing, then your bigger challenge will be finding a stock 300ZXTT. Scoobynuts was also pretty funny. "A cat back, intake, and chip, and you're looking at 500 (flywheel) horsepower." I have those and then some, and my last untuned dyno yielded 316 RWHP and 355 RWTQ. So unless I have some inexplicable drivetrain loss upwards of 30%, then your numbers are a little off. Don't get me wrong, our cars have huge potential for a relatively low cost. I've seen cars with over 600 RWTQ on stock internals. At the end of my rambling, I will say that street racing is stupid. From a launch, STI wins. From a roll, the Z will win. The STI is an amazing machine, is very fun to drive (I imagine, I've only driven a WRX) and nicely packaged for 30K. Food for thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMS_Racing Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 116,000 mile, completely stock longblock including turbos. 300zx is in the right lane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92ZXTT Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 Twin Turbo Z Racing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZBlacktt Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 Well, it's nice to see the 300zx ( Z32 ) still compared to today's newer more advanced sports cars. But like some stated before, these two cars are really two totally different classes of cars. But given the question was asked, lets look at it. The 300zx was produced state side for 6 years ( 90 to 96 ) and a few years more over in Japan. All 6 years mostly stayed the same car with minor changes. But due to emissions problems the '96s have less horsepower due to OBDII and increased emissions requirements. No variable valve timing, etc., which changed there output rating to 280hp @ 6400rpm 283ft-lbs @ 3600rpm. There was only 400 cars sold that year, so finding one and racing one of that year won't be as common as the earlier years. The 300zx has a Weight Distribution 55% Front / 45% Rear, so light rearend which make the cars very problematic when launching hard. They have very bad wheel hop. But there's after-market parts to prevent that now. For track racing all the Twinturbo models came with a system called HICAS. HICAS is Nissan's name for the 4 wheel steering system that is standard on the Twin Turbos. Unlike other manufacturer's implementations of 4 wheel steering, the HICAS system turns the rear wheels a very small amount (+/- 2 degrees or so) at the max. They all have two way adjustable suspension from inside the car as well. Remember this is a 14 year old design where talking about too, not 2002/2003. Given that all 300zx's came with the same motor, just minor changes in parts over the years. There potential is still being challenged to this day. Like it's ached rival the Toyota Supra. The motors are greatly suppressed from the manufactures. Those same 1996 twinturbo's like other years are running 11 second times in the 1/4. That's stock turbo's too and the 5 speed cars weight in at 3502lbs ( minus driver ) and Auto's 3540lbs ( minus driver ). Put a full exhaust, boost controller, air intake and ECU ( chip ) and a good running Z Twinturbo can lay down 400rwhp and 430+rwtq. I think on a road course the AWD STi will kill it and bad. The Z is just to heavy to compete with that. It's overall power will not help it take the turns as fast as the AWD Sti. Watch this video, this is what it would be like. Some cars just handle better and some look for the straight-aways http://auto.joins.com/upboard/pds/pdst/BestMotoring_TougeShowdown2.asf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedyttz Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 I've been around long enough to know that with the two different types of cars their effiecency range is TOTALLY different...I had a vid of a TTZ stage 3-4 (not sure) and a new STI and the STI had a nice jump on the Z however when HP comes into play...and the type of mechanics that the Z has and its ability to pull out...there is no question. I don't knock the STI just for the fact that its way over priced however....each car has its own realm as to what the car was and is designed for....both are not a good 1/4 mile car for starters...and they are both on the opposite sides of the spectrum of what the car was made for. I think all in all they both have a fair advantage over another and mod for mod they both have some of the best HP increases. There are other things I'd touch up on however...its not worth my time to get into a bickering match.. Just have fun and enjoy what each of you have... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrxsubaru Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 you think the STI over priced??? All cars in its price range, ecept the evo dont even compete, the rx8, 350Z, even the mustang Cobar r. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperRallyRoo Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 That 300z is insane... Nice intercooler:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerFahrer Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 Well, my friend had a 84 300ZX Turbo, and he easily toyed with it, got 12 lbs out of it w/out an IC, and ran high 14's and it was auto(!), but he had to put a new tranny in it, and that one has probably suffered a similar fate as the first... Stock 300ZX to stock STi, no question, STi 100%, but allow some mods here and there, and the Z's extra 2 cylinders and 500cc displacement would probably win... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedyttz Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 Originally posted by wrxsubaru you think the STI over priced??? All cars in its price range, ecept the evo dont even compete, the rx8, 350Z, even the mustang Cobar r. Hmmm its funny that this thread is about "300s" not all the others that you mentioned:brolleye:....and yes I do think that the STI is over priced....$35+ Thousand for a four door turbo car...sorry thats just out of my price range. The Twinturbo Zs back in their prime went for more however the STI and the 300zx twinturbo are two ENTIRELY different class of cars....and I dont know about you but I've never seen the STI in the "Super Car" lineup in Janapese muscle. Originally posted bySuBaRallyVovo That 300z is insane... Nice intercooler Thanks for the complitments.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTDogg Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 Originally posted by subyluvr2212 Well, my friend had a 84 300ZX Turbo... Hold the phone there meng :-) ... the Z31 (1984-1989) generation is FAR different than the Z32 (1990-1999). The power potential of a Z32 is far greater than that of a Z31(AFAIK). But then again, I think we were talking about stock vs. stock. Where was this thread going again??? LOL:confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedyttz Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 exactly...TDogg...in about a million and one different directions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZBlacktt Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 Ok, so that we don't get off the beaten path. I like to talk about what people have brung up. So far we got cost, we got comparisons to the newer line up of cars, we got the old school 300zx ( Z31 ). Boy this is a wide array of directions,, lol :-p Ok, so we got the Sti is around $31,000+. Cost is not so much an issue if the demand is there. Marketers will not price something out of common sense range, not a productive strategy. Based on past vehicles and others with similar capabilities the STi is around the same price as Nissan's Skyline in Japan. But when the Skyline is shipped to America, that price doubles and them some. Sti Spec's: Horsepower 300 @ 6,000 rpm Torque 300 lb-ft. @ 4,000 rpm Displacement 2,457 cc (150 cu. in.) Fuel/Induction/Engine Management: Resin composite intake manifold, sequential multi-port fuel injection (MFI) with multi-spray injectors and Tumble Generator Valves, electronic "drive by wire" throttle, high-boost turbocharger, intercooler and manually operated intercooler water spray. In plan words, a well engineered car with advancements that any piror car will have to add bolt-on upgrades to be equipped with, such as intercooler spray system to lower the air charge from the turbo into the 4 cylinders for raising the motors power output with air density. There are many after-market manufactures that have this design out and marketed now for all Turbo/ Intercooler car applications. But again added bolt-on. Transmission: 6-speed manual transmission with cooler Again, most advanced Sports cars come with 6 gears. The 300zx was only available in a 5 speed manual with optional after-market companies hosting a 6 speed transmission, but not at a consumers price ( $8000-$10,000 ) Brakes: The Brakes on the Sti are just shy of 13" vented rotors on the front and little over 12" on the rear. This is one of the biggest flaws in the 300zx ( Z32 ). The car had a weak 11" four wheel disc system for all of it's years of production. The cars where very heavy and braking has always been an issues with owners. An after-market set up is mandatory when adding any power or just all around safe driving. The performance machinery derived from the WRX Sti, is Subaru Tecnica International (STi), the division that builds race cars for the rally circuit and is in essence a special edition manufactured car like Fords SVT, Nissan's Nismo, Viper's ACR, Toyota's TRD, etc. Nissan had some 300zx licensed and manufactured under companies such as Stillen called SMZ and where numbered limited edition cars. In 1995 Stillen Motorsports developed the Stillen SMZ 300ZX in conjunction with Nissan's North American operations to be sold through select Nissan dealerships. The SMZ would be offered as a complete package with the same warranty as the factory car. The cost of the SMZ was about $57,000 ($14,000 more than a stock 300ZX Turbo). Aside from a few body changes and rims and tires, the Engine modifications included a new intake manifold and air filter, a free flowing cat-back exhaust, and an extra 2-psi of boost. These changes resulted in 365 bhp @ 6500 rpm and 332 lb-ft torque @ 3500 rpm. So you can see the cost was an issue for it as well back in 1995. As far as the other new cars mentioned, well, their all just not built or in the same class like the EVO and STi in rally car/ street machines. So no surprise in there performance characteristics, and the Z31? Need not talking about without major updating in performance,, lol.:wave: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRach Posted November 2, 2003 Share Posted November 2, 2003 Wow... I step away from the forum and in NO time at all the Twinturbo.net guys show up! After selling mine... I kinda miss all the drama over there. Two cars with two completly different markets in mind... with that being said here's my $.02 If given the choice betweent the two I'd take the the STI... sell it for $30k+ and buy a used TTZ and mod the crap out of it! Of all the Japanese Supercars on the market the Z32 is by FAR the best BARGAIN! Can't touch it in terms of $/performance ratio... Don't get me wrong the STI rocks! I'd just rather wait ten years, and pick one up when the price is a little more reasonable (when I'm not poor). tt.net-JRachner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTDogg Posted November 3, 2003 Share Posted November 3, 2003 Originally posted by JRach If given the choice betweent the two I'd take the the STI... sell it for $30k+ and buy a used TTZ and mod the crap out of it! LOL, well said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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