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Properly installing timing belts on EA82?


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29 replies to this topic

#1 viceversa

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Posted 21 October 2003 - 12:23 AM

1992 Loyale with 1.8L engine.

Any info would be appreciated.

#2 skeet

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Posted 21 October 2003 - 12:28 AM

What part specificly do you need help with?

#3 camot

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Posted 21 October 2003 - 04:27 AM

Get a Haynes manual. Professional mechanics get in trouble with these things. For example, the two belts have to be installed with the timing marks 180 degrees out of phase. The timing marks for belts are not the same as timing marks for ignition.

The job is not hard, it take me about 4 hours and I reseal the oil pump and replace the cam seals and O rings.

#4 calebz

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Posted 21 October 2003 - 07:28 AM

Don't get a haynes for timing belts.. get an FSM or someone that knows how to do it to help you. The haynes manual I have doesn't show the correct procedure for installing the belts. it left a step out.

#5 MilesFox

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Posted 21 October 2003 - 10:43 AM

the haynes book describes the right procedure, but the pics assume you have turned the crank 360 deg. if you go by the pics alone it will throw you off. if you read the text then the pics will make sense!

#6 c150L

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Posted 21 October 2003 - 12:54 PM

The frist time I changed belts in my 88 EA82, I followed the instr in the Haynes manual. I got covers back on, then decided to test run before I went further. Found I had one head off 1/2 turn on the crank. (I did the 360 rotate as specified.) Bout a year later, neighborr pulled in with an XT he got at an auction. Toook awahile to realilize what was happening, but again, found one cam off 1/2 turn. Last year, my boy bought an XT. drove it a few months and a belt went out. Knowing about the difficulties following the Haynes manual, I put in the belts, test run only to find out I had that one wrong.

Summary, I put 2 in wrong, even knowing better the second time (but still trying to interpret the Hanyse manual). One other pull in the drive that someone else also got wrong.

Should not hurt anything if you get one cam off 1/2 turn, but it will run terrible. Test run before putting everything back on that you would have to remove IF you got it wrong.

I still think the "rotate crank shaft 360o" is a crock!. There's no reason to do this. Just put both cams in THE RIGHT PLACE to begin with and be done with it.

#7 viceversa

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Posted 21 October 2003 - 09:58 PM

I did not install the engine myself - I payed a shade tree mechanic $200 to do it, plus parts like timing belts.
They were new and lasted 2 months. He put a new (second) set 2 days ago - and it drove for an hour. Same thing for second time. Had to walk to a pay phone for miles. In retrospect, I wish I had done the whole thing myself even though it would have taken me longer.

Anyway, I am really frustrated. Is there a web page or something which is explicit about timing belts. He obviously doesn't know how to install them if I experienced 2 failures and I know even less than that.

#8 calebz

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Posted 21 October 2003 - 10:09 PM

Soo.. you never actually said what is happening.. Are the new belts breaking?

Perhaps new tensioner pulleys are in order.

And sorry, I don't know of any website that will give you explicit instructions

#9 XSNRG

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Posted 21 October 2003 - 11:01 PM

I have a copy of the instructions from the FSM I just threw in the garbage. I could yank them out and fax or mail to you. I could explain the process but it is lengthy.

Personally I do rotate the engine simply because there is no positive mark at 6 o'clock to line up the cam. I think it's easier to flop the engine over once than do the job twice:-)

#10 PHATBRAT

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Posted 21 October 2003 - 11:04 PM

Yep, Definately sounds like they have the wrong amount of tension on them.

#11 pianodirt

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Posted 22 October 2003 - 12:12 AM

Originally posted by XSNRG
I have a copy of the instructions from the FSM I just threw in the garbage. I could yank them out and fax or mail to you.



Hey, I would take you up on those instructions if you want to mail them. I'm looking to do my first belt job and need all the help I can get. My address:

Jason Rumohr
4426 147th Pl NE #A-11
Bellevue, WA 98007

#12 XSNRG

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Posted 22 October 2003 - 09:32 AM

No Prob, I'll throw them in the mail. I'm pretty sure I have another copy too.

Maybe we could scan it in to the USRM?

#13 EmmCeeBee

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Posted 22 October 2003 - 12:11 PM

This site has what you're looking for I think -- complete instructions for timing belts and most everything else.

http://www.cybrrpart...8797m/8797.HTML

-- Mark

#14 pianodirt

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Posted 22 October 2003 - 12:45 PM

Wow, thanks EmmCeeBee, great site, thanks!

#15 c150L

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Posted 22 October 2003 - 07:15 PM

I had one of my wagons eat a couple timing belts due to idler spocket bearing failing. It would momentarily hault rotation and in turn, rip off a series of belt teeth. As I remember it, the Sube dealer wanted >$100 bux for a new idler. One afternoon at work, I had just put new bearings in a 1/2-3/4 hp electric motor and was looking at the old bearing. It was the same thing that was in the idler sprocket. Don't quote me on this, but I believe it's astandard 6203 bearing. Not too big of a deal to press in either. Cost? About 5 bux.

It seems that I do remember timing marks in the 6:00 position on one or both heads timing cases. What is it, RH (as looking at front of engine) goes to the 12:00 and LH goes to 6:00 position with out the 360o rotation? Or is it both go to 12:00?

"Subaru. Inexpensive and built to stay that way!" (As long as you don't have to got to the dealer. I'm sure that was in the fine print somewhere.)

#16 viceversa

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Posted 22 October 2003 - 10:08 PM

I have a copy of the instructions from the FSM I just threw in the garbage. I could yank them out and fax or mail to you. I could explain the process but it is lengthy.

Yes, I desperately need the instructions also! You have PM with my address. I will reimburse you for shipping.


Soo.. you never actually said what is happening.. Are the new belts breaking?

Yes! They are breaking as in "It would momentarily hault rotation and in turn, rip off a series of belt teeth" I've seen them.

#17 XSNRG

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Posted 22 October 2003 - 10:40 PM

Did you see the link above/ the instructions are very close to FSM. I can send them if you want but you could use the instructions above with confidence>

#18 viceversa

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Posted 22 October 2003 - 11:48 PM

Yes! I printed them out. Thank you. I will see if they suffice.
So why exactly are these timing belts breaking? does this sound like something typical that can happen? Something to do with tension?

#19 XSNRG

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Posted 23 October 2003 - 08:51 AM

Yes, that is a great link, thanks Mark!

I just changed the belts on one of my RX's and the crank gear were installed wrong. There are two gears and they should both have the flange towards the back of the engine. Mine had one flange towards the rear and one towards the front. The belts were rubbing together. There was a considerably loss of belt material and a huge mess inside the timing covers but no breakage.

#20 XSNRG

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Posted 23 October 2003 - 08:54 AM

I did notice they don't give tourque specs above. The belt should have about 12 ft lbs of tension, this is not much, if there was more tension on the belt, this could lead to breakage.

Definately check your adjusters and idler too, as suggested above...Also check to make sure the cam gears are fully seated on the end of the cams.

#21 viceversa

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Posted 23 October 2003 - 08:05 PM

Thanks

#22 PHATBRAT

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Posted 23 October 2003 - 08:18 PM

XSNRG, Unless that year EA82 is different, then I would have to disagree with you. I am looking at the FSM for 1987 and it states if both the timing belts and head gasket are new then it should have 33-55 lbs but if it is other than above it should be 24-46 lbs. This is for belt tension. Straight out of the book. Boz

#23 XSNRG

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Posted 23 October 2003 - 09:27 PM

I should clarify,

The numbers you give are correct for belt tension but not for torque spec.

The spec I quoted is the torque you set the torque wrench to and then using that torque wrench hooked to the cam sprocket spanner, you would apply that torque to the cam spocket pulling the belt to that torque and then tighten the tensioner bolts. After doing this you could then use a belt tension measuring tool (I don't have one of these) to verify that the torque wrench applied the correct tension. If the mech that did his car used those tension specs for torque, I think this would more than likely cause the belts to break, soon, not to mention possibly damage to cam bearing, tensioners and the idler (although probably not, IMO, due to the short time it ran).

Boz, I think you may have solved the mystery!

I'll quote both these torque specs for those interested.

When both timing belt and head gasket are new, torque to cam sprocket=17-19 ft lb

Other than above=10-12 ft lb

#24 PHATBRAT

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Posted 23 October 2003 - 09:31 PM

I concur with your clarification. I looked it up and you are correct....now :D

#25 XSNRG

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Posted 24 October 2003 - 12:09 AM

I looked at my previous post and I wrote tension:banghead: DUH, sorry about that, definately did not mean belt tension, was talking about the tension created by torqueing the cam pulley. I can see how that post served no useful purpose:dead:




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