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It wont start, and wont give codes (It runs, YAY)


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17 replies to this topic

#1 ausubaru92

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Posted 09 April 2006 - 12:20 AM

88 touring wagon with vortex turbo conversion...
Fuel pump cycles on and off.
Has spark
There is 12v to earth on both pins of the injector. Is this right?
Only code that flashes is 7 (australia non turbo) (im using the mpfi ecu for now)
o2 sensor is not connected,.. no code
When i unplug the injector ,,, no code
im yet to see if i can get a code, even though i have unplugged the maf, injector and purge soleniod, but still no codes???
only previous code was coolant temp, but i fixed it.
This was with no test connectors connected.

Is there anything im not doing?
Could my ecu be toast?


Gannon

#2 [HTi]Johnson

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Posted 09 April 2006 - 12:23 AM

What color of spark? Seriously...a nice blue spark is a hot spark, yellow isn't. My friend had this problem and it turned out to be a corroded coil wire.

#3 misledxcracker

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Posted 09 April 2006 - 02:58 AM

Sounds like the coil wire.. I, also, had the same problem.

Check the connections, clean 'em up, if all else fails, replace... That's what I did.

#4 ausubaru92

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Posted 09 April 2006 - 03:57 AM

Ok i checked the colour of the spark, far from blue..... a yellow spark and some were a lot weaker than others.

So i will order new leads and a new disty cap as well, the points in it are pretty worn.

But that still doesnt explain why if i unplug the maf, the injectors, the ficd solenoid or the purge soleniod, it doesnt give codes

Beats me :-\

The car has sat in a paddock for almost 2 years (i have had it running, about 6 months ago, before i started the conversion) so I drained the fuel at the outlet just before the pump, and put more in, but should i drain the whole tank, how is this done


Thanks

Gannon

#5 hooziewhatsit

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Posted 09 April 2006 - 11:50 AM

so when you turn the key to 'on' (not starting it) the fuel pump pulses? If so.. it sounds like you have the green connectors connected (even though you said none were?). I'm not sure, but I think with the greens together you don't get codes. Could very well be wrong though.

Easiest way I've found to drain the gas tank.... Unhook a fuel line under the hood before/after the fuel filter. Get extra length of fuel line and route into container. Turn key to 'on' and let the fuel pump pulse and pump out the gas. Takes a while, but you don't have to rig up any power connections directly to the pump. For the couple I've drained this way, I just got a majority of the old gas out, then replaced it with much more good gas + seafoam.

#6 Cougar

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Posted 09 April 2006 - 09:29 PM

You will have 12 volts on both sides of the injectors most of the time but there is a period when the ECU will make a ground connection to one side in order to open the injector. You should see a pulsing action when you turn the motor over. I have heard of someone fixing a problem like this by repairing a bad ground connection in the ECU that tied to the injector lines.

You could try spraying some starter fluid into the intake to see if that will make the engine fire.

#7 ausubaru92

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Posted 10 April 2006 - 03:41 AM

I bought some new leads and the spark is now a whiteish blue,..and it fires, but that is it (with a little help of some fuel in the throttle body)

So ignition seems good.

Fuel is the problem.:mad:

I have 12 volts on both sides of the injector, then when i start it, the voltage fluctuates (kinda hard to tell with a digital meter)

Sooooo,..... Its either bad fuel, or the injectors are blocked :-\

Im gonna try to make up a temporary tank and fill it with fresh fuel and see if that works.


Hooziewhatsit... When i turn the ignition to on (not start) the fuel pump comes on only once, I didnt have the green plugs connected, but if i do, the fuel pump cycles on and off.

Thanks guys

#8 misledxcracker

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Posted 10 April 2006 - 05:19 AM

I dont know if this is bad for the car, but this is what I did to drain the old fuel out of my car when I bought it...

Disconnected the fuel line from the back of the fuel filter, led the hose to a jug, plugged in the greens, put the key in the ON position.

Once no more gas came out, I immediately turned the key to OFF, replaced and reconnected the fuel filter, put in a few gallons of fresh fuel, added half a bottle of injector cleaner, and it started up.

Again, like I said, I dont know if it's bad for the car, I'm just telling ya what I did. :)

#9 grossgary

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Posted 10 April 2006 - 06:08 AM

like mentioned earlier when you turn the key ON (but don't start the engine) the fuel pump should cycle for a couple seconds and then shut off. if it cycles on every 1.5 seconds then the green connectors are likely plugged in and they shouldn't be except for diagnosis or adjusting the timing.

once the connectors are verified - are you sure the fuel pump is sending fuel to the engine? have you pulled a hose and verified that when you turn the key on the fuel pump cycles and gas comes out at the engine?

might be hard for a mutimeter to read real time fluctuations at the fuel injectors like you said.

fuel injectors have a common ground under the intake (close to the thermostat housing, behind it and the power steering pump). and there are also the dropping resistors by the front strut tower that are for the injectors.

this could get really confusing so i'll try to keep it short but what year motor and engine exactly did you use? i just looked through the wiring diagrams this weekend for my issues (in the States, don't know if yours is different) and the 1987 and 1988 model year wiring harnesses are quite different. and on another note the waste gate solenoid (for the turbo) is tied into a number of different things, it branches off to the fuel pump relay for sure and some other things. not sure if this could be your issues but sounds suspicious. if you're not getting fuel at the motor when you turn it on or try to start then i'd suspect it is related to this and i can go into more detail later.

#10 ausubaru92

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Posted 10 April 2006 - 06:27 AM

I have fuel at the engine,.. i pulled off the hose just after the fuel pump, plenty of fuel. But the fuel was not purely purple, it was darker, this could be the problem.

Ive checked out the wiring for the wgds,.. one pin goes to the ecu (the ecu grounds this when activated) the other wire is connected to the 12+ on with ignition that the fuel pump and other solenoids are connected to.

I think bad fuel is the problem, cos it gave a couple of coughs before i started adding fuel to the intake.

I will try with new fuel and see how it goes.

Cheers

#11 grossgary

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Posted 10 April 2006 - 06:51 AM

i put a couple gallons in my XT that had been sitting awhile and it started...eventually (lots of other issues). sounds like that ought to get you going. i did what someone else mentioned - pulled the hose at the engine and pumped some into a bucket to get some of the old stuff out.

#12 manxsta

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Posted 10 April 2006 - 07:33 AM

Hi there ausubaru92....i think i know what the problem is...i recently bought a turbo wagon and it had the same rpoblem as yours...it would start then stop...and had the 12v on each side of the injector plugs..it turned out to be the efi harness on the engine was not earthed well enough. thus not giving injector pulse..and only giving an initial pulse enough to leak some fuel in but not enough to keep running...once i had repaired the bad earth..away it went and i never had any problem since..this one sat for a while also...i am a mechanic and it did have me stumped for the day..i hope this fixes your problem..cheers :banana:

#13 Mantonite

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Posted 10 April 2006 - 11:39 AM

I may have missed something, but make sure there are no air leaks b/w your air flow sensor and the manifold. I have had similar issues when I forgot a hose (or two) after working on an engine. Caused it to start then immediately die due to lean burn.

Just another look at it I guess...

#14 ausubaru92

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Posted 11 April 2006 - 04:03 AM

I definately think that the injectors are the issue.

Im gonna take them off and put some others on.

I will take another look at the earthing (this is the one on the thermostat housing right?) but im pretty sure it is ok.

It ran a little better today, for nearly 8 seconds, and that cos i adjusted the timing, i think i had it at 0deg tdc. But i still needed to add fuel to the intake to get it to run.


Keep those suggestions coming


Cheers

#15 the_postie

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Posted 11 April 2006 - 05:08 AM

there are several points from the motor to chassis for earth.if you just ground the ecu one to the motor and not the motor to chassis you will still have a weak earth..the tourer loom you're running it off was this in the car originally or did you fit it up. Will

#16 MilesFox

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Posted 11 April 2006 - 05:15 AM

before you do all that check to see if the fuel lines are connected correctly

the line off the filter will connect to the iddle and highest line on the intake, the return line is the other, and the skinny is the vapor breather.

the fuel coes into the rails BEFORE the INJECTOR side, and the return line is AFTER the fuel pressure REGULATOR

#17 Cougar

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Posted 11 April 2006 - 10:12 AM

The fact that you saw 12 volts on both sides of the injector(s?) means that the coil in the injector is ok. Get a test light and check the output line of the ECU to the injector and clip the ground lead to a good ground. If the switched ground to the injector is ok you will see the light flash as you crank the engine. If the line is not working you will just see a steady light. This means that either the ECU has a internal problem or, if there is a external ground for that line through the ECU there is a problem with that ground lead. I'm not sure if the ECU on your car has a internal or external ground connetion for the injector. I think both types are used.

As I stated before, someone here had this same problem and found that the ECU internal ground had a bad connection and simply repaired it to get things going again. The problem with your car may be the same thing.

#18 ausubaru92

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Posted 14 April 2006 - 04:17 AM

I went up this morning and thought i would unplug the maf.
started it, nothing....
Poured fuel down the throat, it ran,..... stumbled,.. so i hit the accelerator pedal and it died.

Repeated it and VROOOOOM

So i thought it must have been a bad maf so i plugged it back in.
It ran:slobber: ... so i unlpugged the air intake, it died:confused:

So maf is good and the car now runs

The only problem is that there is smoke rings coming out of the radiator pipe (no radiator at the moment) so must be a headgasket

And there is oil in the turbo,... prolly not a good sign


But it runs,.... YAY FOR GANNON :burnout:


Thanks guys for your input:headbang:




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