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LPG Soobi


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17 replies to this topic

#1 manxsta

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Posted 01 May 2006 - 08:53 AM

Ok, anyone out there installed lpg on there soobi?
I have a firend who has lpg on his ea82t wagon..he loves it..and with fuel prices these days, you could fit it on a 4 cyl without feeling like a scrooge,,,,,:grin:

he fitted a tps calabration unit configured for lpg which comes on when you flick it over..and the efi cuts out the injecter pulse and fuel pump.
i have a small block 350 in my aussie pick up(38$ every 15 days or so and i use in often to tow with) and it use,s less fuel than my ea82t(which dont have lpg)

Sounds like the way of the near future for some 4 cylinders...what do you think guys?

#2 Matty B

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Posted 02 May 2006 - 07:36 PM

12 months converted for me, absolutelty rapt with the LPG,
highly reccomend it to anyone.

#3 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 02 May 2006 - 10:34 PM

Yes!

Here in Honduras, with the Extremly High Prices of Fuels (We pay about $ 4.50 Bucks per Gallon of "Premium" -:confused:- Unleaded Gasoline) Companies who produce Bio-Diesels and installs LPG systems on almost any car (Even in Diesels) are growing fast.


I have seen about two or three Subies (One or two was Loyales, and one was Leoné -EA81- Wagon) working as Taxis with LPG system in Tegucigalpa city (One of the Twin cities that make our Capital) ... I take a ride on one of them, and the driver says it works amazingly... It got a switch which can change fuel on the engine, from normal Gasoline to Lpg "On the Fly". Also, here in Capital City, most Gas Stations sells LPG gas along with standard fuels...


It´s a Good Idea to Switch to LPG... Think ´bout it... No harmful toxic contamination... economy... cleaner engine... the "On the Fly" switch to change to normal gasoline in case of low LPG... Etc...


The only three things that make me do not switch to LPG Are:


First of All: The Weberized EA82 is not mine at all... it´s my Dad´s one, and he dislike the idea at all... (It was hard enough to convince him to change the Craptachi carb to the marvelous Weber) he dislikes specially the fact that we loose too much space on the trunk, and the added Danger. Well about Danger... I asked one of the companies´ technician, and he told me that newer LPG systems, got a Double Wall tanks, with integrated in-tank pressure sensitive valve, that in case it "Feels" too many gas flow -or too much fast- it blocks the out line directly from the tank, inmediately. But still we fear the system a li´l bit...


Second: I can´t switch to the LPG system because is Too Expensive... I know i´ll get wonderful savings and more cleaner engine, environment, etc... but I still don´t have enough...


Third: My ER 27 Loyale is still in development... I can´t fix the overheatin´ problem... you know... "Normal" Radiator doesn´t fit... so I made a pair of small ones with electric fan... OMG! what a Crap! ... well... as I said... is still in development...


So, i´ll wait untill one of my friends who drives EA82 and EA81 subies, do the Switch before, and I wanna do the comparison "Test Drive" my self...


Maybe, one day...


Good Luck!

#4 Matty B

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Posted 02 May 2006 - 11:33 PM

By the way, with 650 - 750 kilometres a week rolling under the Beast,
I have paid for the conversion ($1900 ish Australian) already.

Daily driver and workhorse @ 65% of the running costs.
You work it ou.

GO GAS!

#5 Zefy

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Posted 03 May 2006 - 12:14 AM

this might be kinda cool to do on my 79 when i put in the 2.2...

since gas is about 4 bucks a gallon here too this would probably be worth it...

my old auto teacher has all his cars running on LPG... (all mopar... even the barracuda drag car... running 12's... anything faster is technically illegal for highschool drag... anywho)

he lives by the system...

so you can have it setup so you can use both gas and LPG? turn off one and use the other? the BLAM factor is kinda scary... but hey...

will power go down at all from using the system? i've been told LPG has an octane rating of about 110... that seems weird in my mind due to chemisty 101...:-p (solve the riddle... propane... octane...:rolleyes:)

how complicated is the LPG system? i've seen a few but never actually gotten to play with one... does it work like a carb? (i hate carbs...)

simple to tune? low maintenance?

do you actually get better economy? (savings purely due to less $$$ for LPG?)

i know matty B has a supercharger... actually your whole engine setup is dreamy...:-p

i know matty doesn't have to worry about this due to his disty swap but what do you do about the computer? have to trick it after you turn off the pump and injectors or???

wow tones of question!:D

#6 cubastreet

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Posted 03 May 2006 - 02:36 AM

I've convertd acouple of vans to LPG when I was living in England - one 2 litre ford v4 and on 3.5 rover v8. Both ran much smoother on LPG, and the running costs were about halved.
Very easy to set up, I did the installations myself and had no problems. One thing you do need with LPG is a good electrical system as it's harder to make a spark in a lpg/air mix than a petrol/air mix.
It's real good in cold weather as you don't have any trouble getting the gas to vaporise like you do with petrol. Another big plus is that wou don't get cylinder wash which is when with a cold engine the petrol vapour condenses on the cold cylinder walls and washes off the oil. Combined with the comparative lack of combustion by-products it makes your engine last MUCH longer (up to 6-7 times longer). The V8 van's oil still looked new after 10000km and 4 months driving around europe last year.
I'm thinking of taking out the petrol tank in my brat and doing LPG only as then you don't have to make do with the LPG/petrol compromise and can raise the compression ratio to 11.5 or 12:1 and do away with the carb alltogether. Alternatively you can stick with original CR and add a supercharger. You can also tailor the advance curve for LPG which likes an advanced idle and faster initial advance curve but with no more full advance.
If you do a LPG/petrol conversion it's still great but the compromise will result in slightly less power (unless your carb's shagged) and less MPG.

#7 Dylan86GL10

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Posted 03 May 2006 - 07:48 AM

I'm putting the parts together for my EA82T now.

Its basically just like a carb system except add a pressure regulator before the carb. Here in the states, LPG is much less common in vehicles but still done. Also due to the recent Gulf of Mexico hurricanes, LPG is more expensive than it used to be.

Your economy will actually go down slightly because LPG has less BTU than gas and it displaces air as a vapor. But it is cheaper than gas and you can extend your oil changes (go AMSOIL!) which will also save money.

Ebay is full of conversion parts here in the US but unfortunately, most of them are from fleet v8 conversions.

I have a couple spare parts (mostly regulators, maybe a carb) if anyone in the US is interested.

Heres a great starting point:
http://impco.ws
http://impco.ws/download/IMC2005C.pdf

#8 archemitis

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Posted 03 May 2006 - 08:24 AM

im seriously thinking about this with my ea81 two wheel drive crap box... it seems like a much better option than e85

#9 Subarian

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Posted 03 May 2006 - 09:27 AM

I've been contemplating the conversion for a while. Where I live there are some additional benefits if the vehicle is pure LPG or propane. You're exempted from emissions testing, and you can use the carpool lane on the freeway even if you're driving solo.

#10 Matty B

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Posted 03 May 2006 - 06:53 PM

so you can have it setup so you can use both gas and LPG? turn off one and use the other? the BLAM factor is kinda scary... but hey...

will power go down at all from using the system? i've been told LPG has an octane rating of about 110... that seems weird in my mind due to chemisty 101...:-p (solve the riddle... propane... octane...:rolleyes:)

how complicated is the LPG system? i've seen a few but never actually gotten to play with one... does it work like a carb? (i hate carbs...)

simple to tune? low maintenance?

do you actually get better economy? (savings purely due to less $$$ for LPG?)


i know matty doesn't have to worry about this due to his disty swap but what do you do about the computer? have to trick it after you turn off the pump and injectors or???

wow tones of question!:D


The system is simple, but needs setting up properly with a selection of new parts and fittings for safety and peace of mind.

The gas boils or condences from a liquid to gas in a condensor. This is heated by your coolant via T fitting off your heater hoses.

The gas now runs into either your throttle body or a carb via a venturi.
It is drawn out by the vacuum of air rushing past it.
(no moving parts here)

The only adjustments are Idle control and the air/fuel mixture.
They don't need messing with, ever. (except maybe someone changing elevation radiaclly)

You get better fuel economy if your compression ratio is higher than normal.

Std compression will make LPG 10% more thirsty than gasoline.

LPG/gasoline systems have more inherant restriction than a pure LPG system, there will be power loss here trying to keep both happy.

Run a standard computor to fire the spark, no worrries at all there.
Pleased to help anyone with info or tip here, but bear in mind I am a first season rookie with the gas my self.

#11 Dylan86GL10

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Posted 04 May 2006 - 10:02 AM

LPG/gasoline systems have more inherant restriction than a pure LPG system, there will be power loss here trying to keep both happy.


What's the restriction of dual fuel? Compression ratio? I don't think most people are going to change compression ratio on their soob.

I have a standard compression (n/a block) EA82T so the LPG will help given the turbo.

#12 Zefy

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Posted 04 May 2006 - 11:37 AM

What's the restriction of dual fuel? Compression ratio? I don't think most people are going to change compression ratio on their soob.

I have a standard compression (n/a block) EA82T so the LPG will help given the turbo.


your car its fairly easy to raise the compression ratio as parts are fairly pleantiful... use a carb'd block and put your turbo heads and intake onto it... this will give you 9:1 i think... a little higher probably... if you really want to go for the gusto rip into an ea71 and nab the pistons... that'll give more compression...

my friend used the carb'd block setup... that car hauled arse... loads of fun!

just thought you'd all like to know...:)

and actually ya why is the dual system more restrictive? i bet with a good aftermarket computer like perfect power you could map it so you get the most out of both systems...?

#13 Dylan86GL10

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Posted 04 May 2006 - 12:38 PM

your car its fairly easy to raise the compression ratio as parts are fairly pleantiful... use a carb'd block and put your turbo heads and intake onto it... this will give you 9:1 i think... a little higher probably... if you really want to go for the gusto rip into an ea71 and nab the pistons... that'll give more compression...

my friend used the carb'd block setup... that car hauled arse... loads of fun!

just thought you'd all like to know...:)

and actually ya why is the dual system more restrictive? i bet with a good aftermarket computer like perfect power you could map it so you get the most out of both systems...?



Yeah that's what I meant, I have the N/A block (80,000 miles) with turbo heads, so in my case, I have higher than _stock turbo_ compression which the higher octane will help with.

I meant most suby guys aren't going to 11:1 + compression which is where propane really shines and regains something efficiency lost with the lower btu content.

#14 Matty B

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Posted 04 May 2006 - 07:27 PM

The extra power loss is due to the gas coming out a venturi, thats cool for a LPG only system but whe you add the extra restriction of a carbie as well it is noticable.

#15 Zefy

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Posted 04 May 2006 - 07:29 PM

Matty B
The extra power loss is due to the gas coming out a venturi, thats cool for a LPG only system but whe you add the extra restriction of a carbie as well it is noticable.


ah so if you were using mpfi then it wouldn't be a problem? no carb to block, no problems!:)

#16 Matty B

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Posted 04 May 2006 - 07:34 PM

Correctemundo!

#17 manxsta

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Posted 05 May 2006 - 05:59 AM

Yes i see everyone finally got to the good part...i was think of running an n/a block striaght gas(lpg) and use all the ea 82 t heads an all....looking around 9.1 which would be fair enough,and not asking to much here,when reliability comes into it......so all you would really need is the n/a dizzy to fire it all up and ditch the computer all together,you could have sane timing and forget about a knock sensor like the old days..:burnout: and forget about all the other crap too..then for then spirited ones..they could hook up there nitros..through the 4 injecters that would be waiting for something to do..or even methanol injection...4 full time short burst injectors...WOW..i think i even spun my own brain with all that.:lol: i cant really see why you would need the ecu at all with straight gas..any comments on this guys?

#18 Dylan86GL10

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Posted 05 May 2006 - 08:10 AM

The extra power loss is due to the gas coming out a venturi, thats cool for a LPG only system but whe you add the extra restriction of a carbie as well it is noticable.


Gotcha, I'm running EFI dual fuel so it will be mixer then efi throttle body which wouldn't be any more restriction than a LPG mixer on a LPG throttle body. I would get rid of the petrol too, but I'm also doing flex fuel for E85, sort of a MAD MAX this car will run on anything (dreaming of a diesel swap).




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