BruceyWV Posted May 9, 2006 Share Posted May 9, 2006 So as a offroad rig we need the low range occaisonally (personally, I've never needed it, even in the silvy I drove for a while) but it seems several people have put in a dual range 5 speed in theirs. But here is a thought that seems like it would be just as much work, and probably lighter/easier in the long run. Some of the old FJ's didnt have a low range, just 1st gear was ultra low. Like, 5.0 + 1st gear. Why cant we do the same with our 4EAT, reprogram the TCU to start actually in 2nd, and alter it too so we could run in it if needed. So with the 4.444 diff and a 5+ or even 6.0 first gear ratio, we'd have a very respectable 25:1 crawl ratio. Idle up a mountain side. Or better yet, a 5EAT and switch off to matching ratios for the 4EAT, and not effect anything. Seems like a LOT of work, but it was just a thought I had that I didnt see had been discussed before. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodsWagon Posted May 9, 2006 Share Posted May 9, 2006 Divorced T-case, 12" lift and a rear diff flipped for the front. Good luck putting 5:1 in the tranny case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet82 Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 I think the automatics would explode under some real Subaru type wheeling. I'd think gearing them down (if it could be done) would just aggrivate the problem of exploding the tranny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KickAssFlash Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 Swapping to a dual range seems the only plausable proposition to me. P.S. I cannot imagine wheeling a subaru without dual range. Ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 someone mentioned that when SJR was talking about lowering the final drive I also don't think the auto would respond well to that. but then again, maybe it would. I've heard that the FWD boxes (EA82) have a lower first gear, I'm thinking about putting that in my D/R box..... the EA82s have a 22:1 crawl ration without any modification. I can't tell you the number of times that my car hasn't been able to get up something simply because it couldn't keep the wheels spinning. even with all the clutch dragging I dared use. P.S. I cannot imagine wheeling a subaru without dual range. Ever. haha, yea, I don't think I've EVER used 4WD hi......if I can put it in 4, I put it in lo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sweet82 Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 I can't tell you the number of times that my car hasn't been able to get up something simply because it couldn't keep the wheels spinning. even with all the clutch dragging I dared use. Same here, on the real long UGLY climbs, I power out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 Sammuri t-case can be geared up to 6:1... that's 132:1... that's my route anyway. More gearing will put more strain on the axles, but such is life. That's what everyone deals with - Ford, Chevy, Yota, Suzuki - they all break em. But I can tell you from experience that 22:1 with a soob and "powering up" to get over stuff is just as bad - in fact it often breaks more than just axles. Slower is better. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceyWV Posted May 11, 2006 Author Share Posted May 11, 2006 ah, it was a thought I had because everyone seems to be doing low range swaps on here, and I was seeing if it was possible. Although personally, I've never NEEDED low range on a trail (other times yeah, but I've never been in a situation where a low range would have taken me out) Really I just used it to save the brakes when poking along in TJ and XJ's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 Believe me - you would NEED it if you tried to take your outback where a lot of us old gen types are going. Not saying an outback couldn't do it - but why trash a $10k car needlessly? I'm sure their day will come too. Have to cut some weight and add gearing tho. It may just never really be feasible except for a few people (there will always be a few ). The new gen is just too heavy, and otherwise ill-equipped for serious trail use without a lot of mods. This is the exact reason people (a LOT of people) have done, or are seriously considering doing, the EJ swap into an EA chassis. We love your engines, but hate the rest of the car. It's like a newer Land Rover - more for shuttling kids and "rustic family outings" like camping with the young-uns in tow. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceyWV Posted May 11, 2006 Author Share Posted May 11, 2006 I did take it on some ATV trails and ripped the stock touring tires to hell, (t33h33, rocks?) and I've talked my friend into giving me his M/T tires from his sammy, so I'm sure I'll just fix the next thing I find wrong with it. Because seriously, thats the only way you can know what you need to improve. Terrain might be a bit different here in the Appalachians though, because really the only trashing that happens to my wagon on atv trails though is trees dragging on it. but yeah, who said I was doing it in my lesbaru? It was just a thought for you guys to talk about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 Because seriously, thats the only way you can know what you need to improve. Yep - you would be appalled by the things I've broken, and seen others break. Only had to tow it home once so far tho - my fault for running a 2WD clutch... that was years ago. My rule is that if I break it - the next version is bigger and stronger, or in some cases it's eliminated if possible. I just broke out a rear window for example - replaced with plexi. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjo Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 another problem w/ using an auto for offroading is that your torque converter gets pissed off REALLY fast if you don't have a tranny cooler. And yeah, i've been in situations when i've had the car pegg'd to the floor, pulling about 4000rpms, and the wheels just won't move up the hill... grrr i wanna do up a twin stick setup break axles pulling out of the driveway.. oops!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceyWV Posted May 11, 2006 Author Share Posted May 11, 2006 are you all even staying on the trails? or are you just sorta like... making it up as you go along? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugaru Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 What are these "trails" you speak of? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 are you all even staying on the trails? or are you just sorta like... making it up as you go along? oh, we're staying on the trails (or at least....I am). I was hoping to find some pics that do the trails here justice....but I can't find any. But seriously, and I honestly mean no offense by this, if you didn't/don't need lo range, you're really not wheeling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phizinza Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 So as a offroad rig we need the low range occaisonally (personally, I've never needed it, even in the silvy I drove for a while) but it seems several people have put in a dual range 5 speed in theirs. But here is a thought that seems like it would be just as much work, and probably lighter/easier in the long run. Some of the old FJ's didnt have a low range, just 1st gear was ultra low. Like, 5.0 + 1st gear. Why cant we do the same with our 4EAT, reprogram the TCU to start actually in 2nd, and alter it too so we could run in it if needed. So with the 4.444 diff and a 5+ or even 6.0 first gear ratio, we'd have a very respectable 25:1 crawl ratio. Idle up a mountain side. Or better yet, a 5EAT and switch off to matching ratios for the 4EAT, and not effect anything. Seems like a LOT of work, but it was just a thought I had that I didnt see had been discussed before. Thoughts? ... This is my thought... I'd never own a Auto... Manual is the only gearbox in my mind. Obviously you have been deprived of good subie offroading. Dual range is a must. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_postie Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 the auto's r ok just the early ea ones don't seem to last in the front diff bearing area.the 4eat seem to hild up a bit better could just be that they r newer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phizinza Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 the auto's r ok just the early ea ones don't seem to last in the front diff bearing area.the 4eat seem to hild up a bit better could just be that they r newer. I don't think you understood me.. I don't like 'any' auto's.. It's like cruise control. If you are too lazy to change gear, you scare me when your on the road. But, personally I just hate autos.. I like to drive cars, not them drive me. I use "you" to mean anyone who drives a auto. Not a particular person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceyWV Posted May 11, 2006 Author Share Posted May 11, 2006 heh, no offense taken. but all my jeep buds prefer automatics? I'm also curious where you people drive, I dont doubt the trails are hard, I dont doubt my lesbaru couldnt make it. But in all the driving jeeps on the appalachian trails, an automatic in high range hasnt let me down. But yes, nothing extreme in my subie, I just hop in a friends jeep. *dusts off the flame suit since this is a subie board* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjo Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 alot of the hard core offroaders here, with heeps & toyotas swear by autos... and they don't mess around... 2 of them go to compotions w/ their vehicles. but yeah.. a subi tranny (4eat) isn't designed for that sort of abuse... i know from experience Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceyWV Posted May 11, 2006 Author Share Posted May 11, 2006 you should totally get a tranny cooler. And while you're at it, an oil cooler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 for anything but rock crawling, I agree with phizinza.....but there are many times when I'm on the rocks, or just gnarly trails, I really wish I had lower gearing AND an auto. mostly cause with a manual, you really shouldn't be dragging the clutch all the time, so if it's fully engaged, and you hit a rock or bump unexpectantly, that brings the car to a stop, it kills your motor. PITA!! Also, for hill climbs, an auto and bad gearing would be nice, a manula and awesome gearing would be nice, an auto and awesome gearing would kick butt, and a manual with bad gearing....well....do the math. The reason we use the manual, is because subaru never made an auto with lo range. so if you want a subaru with lo range, you have to get a manual tranny. jeeps are the easy way out, they're definately quite capable, but they're not anything special. I wanted easy, relatively capable, and common, I'd be driving a Civic...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phizinza Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 I know there are many great things about offroading with a auto. I just won't drive one, heh. Some good things are, torqu convertors allow for what feels like lower gearing. Also if you don't have many years experience with a clutch (I'm not saying I do, I'm saying my dad does, all those years of backing trucks with trailers) It is hard to keep the car running smooth and not burning out your clutch. Aad fact about autos, not much if any deceleration down hills. Take for instance you are heading down a very steep long hill. At the bottom theres a creek and by then your brakes are glowing red. Either you stop there for 5mins to cool down your brakes, or you take the chance going thru the water and hope you don't warp your front disks... But the only reason I don't use an auto, is cos I love manuals too much. As for the topic.. Good luck in changing any part(s) in an auto. I think theres a reason the auto section in my FSM is less then a page long and basically says get it serviced by a trained professional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phizinza Posted May 12, 2006 Share Posted May 12, 2006 It's like cruise control. If you are too lazy to change gear, you scare me when your on the road. That's a little harsh, sorry, I take it back.At least you still have to use the throttle with an auto. I'm just a die hard manual fan. Oh, and tell me this, what sounds worse then a 4 banger with an auto and a fart can? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesubarukid Posted May 12, 2006 Share Posted May 12, 2006 for anything but rock crawling, I agree with phizinza.....but there are many times when I'm on the rocks, or just gnarly trails, I really wish I had lower gearing AND an auto. mostly cause with a manual, you really shouldn't be dragging the clutch all the time, so if it's fully engaged, and you hit a rock or bump unexpectantly, that brings the car to a stop, it kills your motor. PITA!! Also, for hill climbs, an auto and bad gearing would be nice, a manula and awesome gearing would be nice, an auto and awesome gearing would kick butt, and a manual with bad gearing....well....do the math. The reason we use the manual, is because subaru never made an auto with lo range. so if you want a subaru with lo range, you have to get a manual tranny. jeeps are the easy way out, they're definately quite capable, but they're not anything special. I wanted easy, relatively capable, and common, I'd be driving a Civic...... What about a hand throatle? I have seen on a website where they do that for the older EAs. But I cant find it anywhere? Anyone know what I am talking about? Cause I want to put one on my car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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