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Pros and Cons of EA81 4speed vs 5 speed????


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18 replies to this topic

#1 cole098

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Posted 26 October 2003 - 08:54 PM

Well since my 4 speed trans dual range is shot Im considering the junk yard for replacement...

I wanted the experts (all of you) opinion on which trans you would replace it with a 4 speed again or 5 speed?? dual range

There are plenty of hills here in Pa and I do lots of highway driving... So what do ya think.... Thanks Joe


Oh PS... Any tips on how to tell if a junk yard trans is any good??? Thanks

#2 PHATBRAT

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Posted 26 October 2003 - 09:10 PM

Cole, If you do a 5 spd conversion you will need to do some fab work or purchase Jerry's (BRATSRUS) kit. Get yourself another 4 spd (Which I have for you) and it's an easy out easy in swap. No worries about anything. Boz
Also, You neglected to mention what it is for. If you plan on lifting it and installing larger tires or if it will stay stock. Are you talking about your BRAT? What's your ultimate plan with it, lift or keep the same?

#3 cole098

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Posted 26 October 2003 - 09:54 PM

Thanks for the reply... Well this is for my 84 wagon...... I dont think I will lift it at all... Maybe raise it the stock way is all...
If I do lift it it willbe a small lift anyway....

I didnt know that I would need some other kit thing to do a swap from a 4 speed to a 5 speed... I just assumed it bolted up the same is all......

I emailed you phatbrat about a price, did you get it????

Also what kinda mileage is on your trans... See I dont have a garage to do work in and Im a virgin at mechanics.. I never did the trans thing I might have to pay someone to do it... Dave from cressona offered to help me attempt it..... But time is a factor right now... wish this would have happend a month ago...
Thanks Joe

#4 PHATBRAT

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Posted 26 October 2003 - 10:08 PM

Joe, I never got an email. If it is through the board I don't know what's going on. I have previously recieved emails but I didn't get yours. Plus when I go to send them, the people I send them to do not always get them. Anyway, email me at cmakar@hotmail.com As for miles. I want to say about 123,000. It was on a car I parted out. I never had the car running but I know it ran. Long story. Anyway, It is sitiing up at my old man's house.
For the 5 spd, my understanding is that you don't actually NEED the kit but then you will have to bang the hell out of your car with a hammer to make it fit. Plus you would need more than just the tranny. As for installation, You could do it. It's fairly simple. It only goes together one way. You will see.
For a person who has never done this before, it should only take you about 2 hrs max to remove old one and install new one. (With help) I had helped someone once but didn't pay much attention when he did the clutch. A shop will charge you an arm and a leg. If Dave said he's help you then you should be fine. He's a good guy. He's been helping me lately.

#5 PHATBRAT

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Posted 26 October 2003 - 10:17 PM

EDIT: I just got a private message. I can't reply to it because my computer is screwed up. I didn't see anything about a price but the rest of it was the same that I answered here. Let me know, You now have my regular email addy. Boz

#6 cole098

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Posted 27 October 2003 - 07:01 AM

bump

#7 clantieri

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Posted 27 October 2003 - 08:17 AM

Hey Joe, time to pop your own cherry, so to speak. Boz, 2 hours total to change a transmission??!! DAMN! You can come and do mine when I'm ready!! Maybe I need my cherry popped, too. Perhaps you should get a job at a transmission shop! Does that 2 hours include installing any bolts or hooking anthing back up?

Sorry, I had to... :lol:

Chris

#8 PHATBRAT

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Posted 27 October 2003 - 12:15 PM

On a BRAT? Yeah, You can have the engine and trans pulled in that time. (with 2 people) If you can't then you either are really careful first timer or you are just slow. I've only done it once on my parts BRAT with 1 friend helping me but we did it in about 1 hr and 45 minutes give or take a few. I had a little edge though because he knows Subarus like the back of his hand. Joke away cause the joke's on you!!! Boz

#9 edrach

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Posted 27 October 2003 - 01:15 PM

I need to throw in my 2 cents worth on this. Jerry installed a 5 speed d/r in my '84 Brat back when he was still experimenting with it. No pounding of the tranny tunnel was needed. Ask him for the details. Turns out my first gearbox was defective and Corky and I replaced it with another wrecking yard gearbox (from an '88 GL; still 5 speed d/r). Best upgrade you can do to your car; second only to installing a weber in place of the Hitachi. With the old tranny, you were either lugging it in 4th or reving in 3rd up those long hills. With the 5 speed, you can always be in the power band for whatever speed you are normally driving in. Top end seemed to increase; actually not, it just seems so since it is now quieter. 75 mph on the highway is around 3300 rpm. With the addition of the weber the car is even more of a joy to drive. Subsequently, I replaced the two piece driveshaft with a "custom" one piece unit. My brat has too much "soft" metal in the area where the center bearing was supported. A little less road vibration now with that change.

#10 clantieri

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Posted 27 October 2003 - 03:30 PM

Joke's still on you, dude, sorry. I'm not doubting you can

You can have the engine and trans pulled in that time



I'm doubting that


it should only take you about 2 hrs max to remove old one and install new one.



You're saying two different things. Anyone can pull a motor in 2 hours. Trans swap is a different story. 2 hours for a swap and I'm sorry, but your hackin' it.


CLICK HERE !

Chris

#11 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 27 October 2003 - 06:16 PM

I could swap a tranny in 2 hours easy. As long as your not talking about the clutch as well.

GD

#12 cole098

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Posted 27 October 2003 - 07:07 PM

So Edrach you can actually put a 5 speed trans dual range from a 1988 EA82 serries wagon into our older EA81 serries cars with no mods and it will bolt up??????

#13 PHATBRAT

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Posted 27 October 2003 - 09:12 PM

I am just stating what I was told by many around here about Jerry's kit. It's either hammering away or using his kit. If you can install a tranny without his kit and without hammering then I must be missing the point of the kit.

As for the tranny swap time, Don't know what to telly you Chris. The 2 hrs time out with the old and in with the new is for the tranny only not the tranny and engine. And like I said earlier, I am talking 2 people here and it has been done. The facts are that it's been done and I was there myself so aint no joke here. I am not gonna sit here and argue about it for days like a little B*tch cause like I said, it's been done. And now, I'm done. Boz

#14 cole098

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Posted 27 October 2003 - 09:16 PM

So Edrach you can actually put a 5 speed trans dual range from a 1988 EA82 serries wagon into our older EA81 serries cars with no mods and it will bolt up??????

#15 cole098

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Posted 28 October 2003 - 12:23 PM

Where do you buya Jerry Kit and what is included in it??? Thanks JOe

#16 PHATBRAT

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Posted 28 October 2003 - 01:28 PM

Post a message with the topic ATTN: BRATSRUS (jerry) and tell him what you have/want. The kit I believe is 100 bucks plus shipping. You will have to send him the shifters from the 4spd and the 5 spd. If not he will charge more because he will have to go get some himself.



You missed a zero Bozz.........LOL

#17 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 28 October 2003 - 06:18 PM

From what I hear, the 5 speed isn't worth it for off-road. You never get into third gear, and that's where the main differences are in the 5 speed. For freeway tho, it is much nicer, as ed pointed out.

GD

#18 bbbs53

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Posted 28 October 2003 - 06:41 PM

Jerry's kit makes it so you can use the stock d/r lever instead of the one that's stock on the 5 speed. This makes it so you don't have to hack your console, or hammer anything. It also is a well crafted and pratical mod. A 5 speed is not for off road, but you do have to drive there and that's what it is for. It is by far and away the best performance mod for freeway running. It really makes a difference at 70+. I would do it for the way it makes it change overall performance. I love mine and would never go back to a 4 speed. Dropping into forth instead of third is mucho better on long pull hills. Tim, do you have a vacume leak? Was your carb new or rebuilt? I had a lot better luck with mine in both the EA-71 and -81. Vacume leak in the -71 made it do just like you describe. My vote is for 5 speed.:headbang:

#19 the sucker king

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Posted 28 October 2003 - 10:30 PM

Originally posted by GeneralDisorder
From what I hear, the 5 speed isn't worth it for off-road. You never get into third gear, and that's where the main differences are in the 5 speed. For freeway tho, it is much nicer, as ed pointed out.

GD



so is that to say that the 5 speed is no better AND no worse for offroad? or is the 4 speed better for offroading?




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