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Swapped Engine is Rocking/Shaking


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19 replies to this topic

#1 CIS Subaru

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Posted 21 May 2006 - 10:14 PM

I just finished swapping a low miles '97 EJ22 into my '98 Forester, and when I fired it up it shakes really badly. I used the Forester's clutch and flywheel, as well as it's ECU and wiring. New plugs and wires, Forester's coil.

After some initial difficulty getting it to start, it will now run okay except that it shakes violently near idle and hesitates badly when I open the throttle. At approx. 1200 rpm, the engine is shaking like a paint mixer! It seems to smooth out at higher rpm, but I don't think that means much.

What would cause this? Do I have cylinders misfiring? Could I have botched something when I tranfered the clutch/flywheel? How can I tell?

The EJ22 has been stored in a shed for the last 5 years. I was told that it ran fine in the car it was removed from, and I have no reason to doubt that. The only thing I noticed about it that seemed out of the ordinary was that the crankshaft was able to slide almost 1/8 inch back and forth in the block (before I mounted the engine).

Any ideas?

#2 Subaru_for_LIfe

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Posted 22 May 2006 - 10:20 AM

....The EJ22 has been stored in a shed for the last 5 years. I was told that it ran fine in the car it was removed from, and I have no reason to doubt that. The only thing I noticed about it that seemed out of the ordinary was that the crankshaft was able to slide almost 1/8 inch back and forth in the block (before I mounted the engine).

Any ideas?


You already have your answer right there :eek: The crankshaft thrust clearance is 0.25mm (0.0098in) compare that to your 0.125inch that alone is over ten times the allowable limits.

That's just what you can see, who knows how badly worn/corroded inside. Any motor that's lying around in a shed for over 5 years without proper treatment must be considered shot unless proven otherwise.

I'd take that motor back out ASAP if I were you.

#3 nipper

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Posted 22 May 2006 - 10:24 AM

Ditto. There is a right way and a wrong way to store an engine, and if not done properly can screw it up. Did it have plugs in it when you got it? Was the intake and exhaust sealed?

nipper

#4 Jerry DeMoss

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Posted 22 May 2006 - 10:38 AM

Yikes! That is too bad.

#5 a97obw

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Posted 22 May 2006 - 12:25 PM

I'll agree that 1/8" "endplay" is waaaaayy too much. The air cooled VWs and Porsches typically get set via shims at .004-.006 in. endplay as measured with a dial gauge at the flywheel end. But I'd also suggest before giving up and removing the engine, you check all the vacuum lines and the hoses to the air box assembly and that one "big" hose that everybody seems to forget to attach to the air box assembly that makes the engine run like crap. Hopefully that is the problem!

#6 cobalt

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Posted 23 May 2006 - 12:05 AM

I'll agree that 1/8" "endplay" is waaaaayy too much. The air cooled VWs and Porsches typically get set via shims at .004-.006 in. endplay as measured with a dial gauge at the flywheel end. But I'd also suggest before giving up and removing the engine, you check all the vacuum lines and the hoses to the air box assembly and that one "big" hose that everybody seems to forget to attach to the air box assembly that makes the engine run like crap. Hopefully that is the problem!


OBW; The first thing I thought of when I heared the symptoms is a couple of plug wires crossed which will really rock a 4 banger like you described . It won`t hurt to double check this simple procedure . If the motor was running well when stored this could be the problem.....good luck.....cobalt

#7 johnceggleston

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Posted 23 May 2006 - 07:49 AM

slightly off topic, i'm getting ready to pull a 96 2.2l engine (w/125k) which i was going to hang on to in case my 97obw 2.5 w/ piston slap went head gasket bad. (i need the 96 4eat trans and most of the interior for my son's 95 leg sed w/ 167k miles.)

what is the right way to store an engine? or would it be better to sell it and buy one when and if i need it ?

thanks, john

Ditto. There is a right way and a wrong way to store an engine, and if not done properly can screw it up. Did it have plugs in it when you got it? Was the intake and exhaust sealed?

nipper



#8 nipper

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Posted 23 May 2006 - 09:51 AM

How to store an engine, its relativly simple. Remove the plugs and squirt oil in the cylinders (this is probably easier if you have the engine with two cylinders pointing up) rotate the engine by hand, do the came thing to the other cylnders. You can use a fogging oil instead
Flush the engines cooling system with a hose, or do it in the car if its still in the car. Antifreeze can get gummy after time.
http://www.amsoil.co...eFront/fog.aspx .Reinstall spark plugs.
Cover or cap or plug all ports (coolant, intake , exhaust etc). CHange the oil (so no residual acids will eat away slowly at the bearings over time). Spray the engine with wd40 externally (or use an engine wax), especially any steel parts.
Then just find a nice quiet safe place to put the engine. WHen it comes time to restart it, first crank the engine by hand to make sure everything is free, change the oil, put in new plugs, inspect all the rubber parts, rinse the engine and you should be good to go.

nipper

#9 johnceggleston

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Posted 23 May 2006 - 09:53 AM

thanks for the info.

john

How to store an engine, its relativly simple. Remove the plugs and squirt oil in the cylinders (this is probably easier if you have the engine with two cylinders pointing up) rotate the engine by hand, do the came thing to the other cylnders. You can use a fogging oil instead
Flush the engines cooling system with a hose, or do it in the car if its still in the car. Antifreeze can get gummy after time.
http://www.amsoil.co...eFront/fog.aspx .Reinstall spark plugs.
Cover or cap or plug all ports (coolant, intake , exhaust etc). CHange the oil (so no residual acids will eat away slowly at the bearings over time). Spray the engine with wd40 externally (or use an engine wax), especially any steel parts.
Then just find a nice quiet safe place to put the engine. WHen it comes time to restart it, first crank the engine by hand to make sure everything is free, change the oil, put in new plugs, inspect all the rubber parts, rinse the engine and you should be good to go.

nipper



#10 Subarian

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Posted 23 May 2006 - 10:10 AM

I'm with cobalt. The first thing I would check with those symptoms is plugs and wires.

BTW, I tuned up a friend's Subaru with Champion plugs they bought. It ran really rough, and I thought a wire might be bad. Just to check, I switched the plug from the cylinder that was misfiring, and the misfire moved with the plug. I sent them for NGKs, installed them, and it purred like a kitten.

#11 2X2KOB

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Posted 23 May 2006 - 10:58 AM

OBW; The first thing I thought of when I heared the symptoms is a couple of plug wires crossed which will really rock a 4 banger like you described . It won`t hurt to double check this simple procedure . If the motor was running well when stored this could be the problem.....good luck.....cobalt


Yup, I'd second that. I've done that a couple times.

#12 SuBrat84

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Posted 23 May 2006 - 12:30 PM

The wires is a real good suggestion. My first impression was injectors. Good luck.

#13 cookie

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Posted 23 May 2006 - 01:02 PM

How was the endplay measured? If there is no flywheel on it some engines can move a lot.

#14 john in KY

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Posted 23 May 2006 - 10:05 PM

Are 2.2 and 2.5 flywheels interchangable?

#15 CIS Subaru

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Posted 25 May 2006 - 09:50 PM

My first thought was the plug wires because I was using some old wires I had lying around. I bought new wires, and triple checked that none were crossed. Then I thought maybe it was the injectors since the fuel lines were not plugged when the engine was stored. This still may be the case, though that crankshaft "endplay" issue really has me worried. I did not actually measure it, I just pushed and pulled on the crank pulley while I watched/felt it moving (with and without flywheel). It probably was a little under 1/8", but I've never had any other engine do that at all. After looking at an exploded view of an EJ engine block, it looks like the center main bearing is responsible for the endplay? Would I be able to see the thickness of the thrust surfaces of the center main bearing if I pulled the oil pan off? I'm suspicious that some acidic material in the oil may have eaten away at the bearing.

Yes, the EJ25 flywheel bolted straight onto the EJ22, as did everything else except for the ignition coil. The EJ25 coil was too small to bolt to the intake manifold properly. Even the EJ22 single port exhaust "Y" pipe bolted straight onto the Forester's cats.

#16 CIS Subaru

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Posted 27 May 2006 - 11:02 PM

Problem Solved!!
It was the injectors. #2 and #4 weren't firing.
I replaced all 4 with the injectors from the 2.5L, and now it's running great.

#17 2X2KOB

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Posted 28 May 2006 - 12:01 AM

Thanks for the followup - it's always good to see these things get resolved.

So it was two bad injectors? Any way to test them?

#18 CIS Subaru

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Posted 28 May 2006 - 10:58 AM

I figured out it was those injectors by going around the engine unplugging one injector at a time. When I unplugged those two, absolutely nothing changed.

After looking at the fuel line routing, I think I know what happened. #2 and #4 are nearest the fuel inlet, while #1 and #3 are nearest the return line. I think the pressure regulator helped protect the injectors on the return line end, but the inlet pipe was left unplugged and must've allowed the injectors on that end to seize up.

I'll eventually get those injectors professionally cleaned and/or rebuilt. I'd be willing to bet that that's all they need.

For now, I'm not going to worry about the crankshaft endplay. I've found other threads talking about "crankshaft creep" in these engines being somewhat normal, and my engine seems to be running fine now that the injector issue has been resolved.

#19 2X2KOB

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Posted 28 May 2006 - 11:04 AM

I see. So it looks like it was a contamination problem - that makes sense. Thanks!

#20 cookie

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Posted 30 May 2006 - 10:07 AM

Gas turns to varnish if left untreated. If possible before storing an engine one should run it out of fuel. On my Pontiacs I don't drive I use fuel treatment because of apst hassles.




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