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MT whine when clutch is out...


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Hi everyone! Just want to start by saying thanks to SubyLuvr, ScoobySchmitty, WagonsOnly, Frag, Shawn, and all others who have been a big help in educating me on new Subes.

 

Work completed last weekend:

2 remanned front shafts (Goodbye POPs)

Oil Change (Mobil 5W-30 w/ cheapo Advance Auto Filter)

Tranny Fluid change (80w-90)

Diff fluid (80w-90)

Vaccumed (really needed it)

 

Interestig suprise, the car has 4-wheel disc brakes. I am happy :D . Now the problem.

 

This was happening before the work, just forgot to mention it in my previous post. There is a whine that is very noticeable when sitting still and the clutch is OUT. When you depress the clutch pedal, it goes away. The car goes through all 5 gears with no problem, but there is some constant noise through the entire gear process. It doesn't clang, bang, bong, or slap, only a "high pitched" whine. Like I said, very noticeable.

 

Any ideas or suggestions? I will thank everyone in advance. I plan on taking some pics this weekend, and will post. Cheers!

 

Drew

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No problem man! That's what we're here for :D

 

I LOVE the fact that both my Subies, as old as they are, have 4-wheel disc brakes. They're better brakes, period. But they're also easier to work on...

 

Subaru trannies aren't the quietest in the world. My Legacy makes a little noise, my XT even more, but the first thing I would do is double-check your gear oil level...

 

Also make sure your clutch cable is adjusted properly. It's actually supposed to make more of an irritating scratching/squealing sound when it's out of adjustment, but you never know... :)

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I just changed the gear oil this weekend (80w-90). Again it was making the noise before and after the change. I've checked the fluid a couple of times. Always on full. I was suprised to see that it only took 4 quarts instead of the perscribed 4.2. Thats no biggie. When I changed the fluid, there were some metal shavings on the magnetic plug, but not an abundance.

 

As a side note, the clutch pedal operates well, but is very firm. I've not thought about or checked the clutch cable at all.

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It is a 92 L series, AWD, MT, with 178K miles. I don't know much about main bearings, but am willing to learn :cornfuzz:. I'm assuming that is a tranny drop to replace. Would this noise come and go when the clutch is depressed? It completely goes away when you depress the clutch pedal.

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You should be alright then, it was just the early MY1990 Legacy MT's that had the main bearing problem... I believe I'm in the clear as well, I don't have any problems anyway :D

 

Actually, I would think a loose main bearing anywhere in the drivetrain, engine or tranny, should cause a rattling sound of sorts, since the clearance would be just enough to allow the shaft to vibrate ever-so-slightly...

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Originally posted by lothar34

That could be the throwout bearing too.

 

I think he's onto something here. Make sure your clutch adjustment isn't keeping pressure on the throwout bearing when the clutch is fully released. I have not had this problem before, but I think lothar34 is on the right track. Still, what worries me most is the metal shavings in the oil. I had this on my old 90 before the tranny started dying, such as not letting me into 3rd gear and such. Check to make sure your rear diff ratio is 4.11, not 3.70 or 3.90 My 90 Legacy had a 3.9 on it instead of a 4.11 like it was supposed to, and thus slowly tore my trans apart. Just my experience.

 

ScoobySchmitty:banana:

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The mis-adjustment ideas does sound logical to me. My next question is....How do you adjust the clutch? Do I want to give it more play, or go the other direction?

 

Concerning the shavings in the fluid...

I bought the car w/ 178K on it, so who knows how it was treated before. The residue was not heavy, nor great amounts. Just a light coating over the magnet portion of the drain plug. I had much worse on my old 86 GL wagon (2wd) when I decided not to change the fluid for 80K, and it got pretty low.

 

As far as the rear end goes...??? I don't know. I haven't taken a look at it closely. Can you tell from the outside? Which one should I have in the car?

 

Muchos Gracias for all the help!

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First, how is your clutch out of adjustment? Is it catching right when you take the pedal off the floor, or is it catching almost when the pedal is all the way up? If it's the first situation, then you need to loosen the cable, if it's the latter situation, you need to tighten it. Look on the bellhousing of the tranny (find the starter and go a little bit more toward the passenger) you will see the cable there attached to the clutch fork. There will be two nuts on it. Loosen the first nut (you might need two wrenches to turn the two nuts opposite directions to break them loose), then either tighten or loosen the second nut based on your observations from the above parameters. A common adjustment point I like to follow is that the clutch starts to disengage (you can feel this easier with your hand than your foot) right when the clutch pedal is even with the brake pedal... Once you have found the correct measurement, tighten the first nut back down, and you're done...

 

I wouldn't have a walrus over a few metal shavings in your tranny, ever accidentally try to engage Reverse when you're still moving? Of course, everyone has. That will cause a very small amount of metal shavings to enter your gear oil...

 

As for the rear end gear reduction, look on your rear diff. If it's covered in gunk (a frequent problem :brolleye: ), wipe it off and there should be a plate somewhere under all that crap that has your final drive ratio on it...

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I was doing some quality reading on my throne this evening (Haynes manaual), and I saw that there are 2 types of clutching systems in the book. Cable & Hydraulic. Will the hydraulic system have the same adjustment (dumb question :eh: )? The manual didn't list an adjustment for it. Only to check the fluid. DUH.

 

Thanks for the response, I will check to ensure I have the cable drive system.

 

As a side note, I started my initial interior cleaning on the wagon tonight. I found 2 amps, wired up and my missing driver side sun visor under the passenger seat! They aren't mounted, just sitting there. What a joke. The wiring is horrible. No wonder the aftermarket Sony tape deck "pops" when you turn it off. Any idea where I could find a factory AM/FM unit?

 

Thanks again for all the help!

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If you have a mechanical clutch, there should be about an inch of loose play on the pedal before it starts to engage the clutch.

 

If hydraulic, maybe there is air in the system, but even with that, it wouldn't be engaging your clutch with no pedal pressure. There is an addition master cylinder under the hood for the clutch. It should be on or near the driver side firewall.

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1992 models are not known for the chronic main bearing failure. However, you cannot rule it out :(

 

Consider this:

 

Clutch to the floor, car stationary, and the tranny internals stop spinning, and the noise disappears. The throw-out bearing is under pressure, holding the clutch diaphram spring, and will not rattle because of this. It might "whine".

 

Clutch up, car stationary, and the transmission input shaft is spinning, and the main input bearings are in motion. Rumble, rattle, and whine as they like. The throw out bearing is also free to rattle, but whining stops, since it is not under pressure.

 

 

At, least that's my understanding, I never did finish my mechanical engineering degree...

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I do agree that I can't rule anything out at this point. The main bearing theory does make a lot of sense. Is there a way to positivly confirm or rule this out? What are some standard testing procedures (other than taking it apart :( ).

 

I appreciate all your responses,

 

Drew

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Get the car up on a lift and let it idle. A serious rumble/rattle/ohmygodsomethingisloose sound from the gearbox will mean it's the bearings.

 

A lot of metal shavings in the oil is also a sure sign. A little mound on the magnet in the plug is perfectly normal. I mean a lot of shavings, like you can see them drain out with the first half-quart of oil....then you're in trouble.

 

Also, does the noise change in character when you coast in-gear. Try around 45mph down a moderate hill in fourth gear....does it sound like the gearbox is gonna fall out when you come off the gas pedal?

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Nope, doesn't rattle (at least since I wired up the rusted heat shields :D ). I tried the coasting thing, and no change in noise or vibration. The sound is most noticeable when:

 

You sitting still, CLUTCH OUT

 

Whine/Noise goes away immediately when CLUTCH IS IN

 

I haven't got it on jack stands and listened from underneath.

 

There were no major shaving in the fluid, only light coating on the plug magnet. I'm going to check to see if it has the "cabled" clutch system, and possible adjust that. Can I do that while it is running to see if the noise changes? Any harm?

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Well, if the transsmission is in neutral it shouldn't harm anything.

 

HOWEVER: Working around a running engine can be dangerous. The aux drive belt is running, the fan starts on its own, and there is some serious voltage in your plug wires.

 

BE CAREFUL! And have someone watching you, so they can jump in an pull you out if things get nasty!

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