DerFahrer Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 Wow... It was raining hard here in Orlando tonight, and I have a hard time passing up a good drive in the rain... So I hopped in the XT (my only operable Subie right now ), and took off... As soon as I put in in 4WD, I started carving some corners. Allow me to say that with the fancy new OEM airbags and the locking center diff of 4WD, I have NEVER been in a car that offered more wet traction!!! I was able to take corners faster in the wet than my AWD Legacy could in the dry! And don't start flaming me, I didn't do anything stupid, I was very safe about it...The whole time, some 30 minutes, I never got fishy in the rear or understeered into a ditch... I really never even set one tire wrong... While 4WD is hard to use in tight corners, it definitely has the advantage in traction, simply because the front and rear wheels HAVE to spin at the same speed... Why the XT never caught on, I don't know, it's a fabulous car! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperRallyRoo Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 Where not gonna flame u for having fun in the rain!!! Thats my favorite thing to do! Why just today I lit the tires up in my turbo wagon in 2nd gear half way down the block! I find my volvo is more fun in the rain then it is in the dry, I can get that big fat rump roast out around the corners and keep it there and then transfer over to a drift to go around the next corner! Its sooo fun ha ha! Too bad that car has no tranny right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWX Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 ya I love to do that with my hatch its fun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caboobaroo Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 I miss drivin my v6 Camaro for the same reason. I could light them up so easily, sometimes without even trying (right in front of a cop too:brolleye: ) But I had fun drifting corners like a mad man in it. I never got extremely close to seeing ditches but there were a couple of times that the rump roast end got a little loose:brow: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. RX Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 OK, now I'm confused (I know, it seems to happen a lot lately). You have an 88 XT 4WD MT, and you went for a drive, putting it into 4WD? Your car has air bags and a center locking diff? My confusion is that I thought that the center locking diff was only on the Fulltime 4WD tranny, in which case you wouldn't have to put it into 4WD, it would already be there. Also, I didn't know that Subaru installed air bags into any EA82 series car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJM Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 I think he means the air supension Corky...maybe? Speaking of that I did find (and now own as a parts car, but theres not much left...) a 1986 XT Turbo 4WD, 5spd with air suspension. Strange huh? I thought it only came on autos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerFahrer Posted October 29, 2003 Author Share Posted October 29, 2003 Corky, Trogdor and I have discussed the part-time "pushbutton" 4WD systems on Subarus before. We both agreed that the 4WD system is a true 4WD, where the front and rear wheels are required to spin at the same speed, or at least one of each, since both ends have open diffs... It is true, since I cannot pull away from a stop with the wheel turned all the way to one side with 4WD engaged, the car won't even want to move. My AWD Legacy however, will allow such tight maneuvers, since the center diff is a viscous coupling, and some discrepancy in wheel speeds is allowed... Or am I wrong? I am still an 80's-Subaru n00b, so I am willing to be corrected However, yes I do have air suspension. It is brand new, every last part replaced by the dealer, new struts, new solenoid valves, and the driver front fender liner has been taken out before, so I would assume the compressor and air tank have also been replaced. And it is not retrofitted, as my dash has an "Air Suspension" light... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. RX Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 Well, that depends, is your tranny a Fulltime 4WD or a Push Button 4WD. If it is push button, then it doesn't have a center lock diff, infact there is no center diff at all. The push button just engages the gears that drive the rear wheels, just like the lever on the 'on-demand' 4WD trannys does. Lift the lever or push a button, it does the same thing, but no center diff. WJM, I checked the parts book, air suspension came on all 4WD turbos, both single range manual trannys and the autos, and the GL 4WD model in 1986. By the way, my 86 GL-10 Turbo Sedan with a D/R on-demand 4WD tranny does wonderful in the rain, I love to drive it in the rain, I have much better traction the 2WD in the rain, and boy does it corner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 my 87 gl-10 turbo wagon doesnt have air suspension. nor the wiring or air lines that so is equipped withy air ride. is mine an odd one of the bunch? unless you were referring to xt models......... pushbutton single range 4wd---actually RWD since i busted the front axle! jim's turbo xt has the air ride lines, but someone swapped the struts out for conventional units........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJM Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 I guess it was an option. I know of several GL-10 turbo 4wds that dont have Air. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerFahrer Posted October 30, 2003 Author Share Posted October 30, 2003 Okay, I stand corrected then :brolleye: Yes I have the pushbutton 4WD. Is it actually the lack of a center diff the reason that the front and rear wheels are forced to spin at the same speed? I guess that could make sense, if it's simply a gear that connects the two... I know so much and yet so little all at the same time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setright Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 No center diff means transmission wind-up on grippy surfaces. I expect you are getting a small amount of wheel slip in the rain, but hardly enough to ruin the cornering attitude. I would strongly recommend leaving it in 2WD on dry ashpalt, for the sake of your driveshafts On 195/60R15 Bridgstone RE720's my Legacy will slip the rear wheels at full throttle in wet 90 degree city corners, after the tacho needle swings past 4500rpm! It doesn't flick it out since the front wheels are still pulling, trying to get the back end to follow. Higher gears and more open bends produces no slip. Unless it's a second gear corner taken over 45mph and I shut the throttle mid-bend, in which case the rear end starts sliding. No dice in the dry though, just grip-grip-grip!! I reckon the permanent 4WD with a LSD in the center is the best solution for on-road driving. The 187/70R14 Yoko F310+'s I am on now for winter, are a different story.... OH!versteer is the order of the day:banana: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJM Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 Id rather have a LSD front and rear, with a viscous center diff. But I'd have 600 HP going to a ground too...that would justify all those LSDs and the VC. Even in stock form, the RX would spin an inside tire on hairpin bends when I get back on the gas. Add it was DRY tarmac too. Not it had rear LSD too, i think it was the inside front spinning now that I tihnk about it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. RX Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 DUH Fox, we are talking about an XT here. The air suspension was standard equipment on all GL-10's (turbo or not), but then, there might have been a delete option. With all the different configurations that I have seen Subarus in, that shouldn't be that way, but appear to be stock from that factory that way, I wouldn't be surprized. By the way Fox, if you were to look at my 86 GL-10 Turbo Sedan, you wouldn't see any hint that it ever had air suspension, but it did, I removed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted October 30, 2003 Share Posted October 30, 2003 well, judging from the manner in which the motor was pulled from my ride, you know, throttle cable still connected to the pitch bar bracket still connected to the pitch bar and just floating around, i dont think the previous mechanic wouls have known how to totally remove an air system components. no lines no switches. if it DID have an air suspension, i would be able to tell by looking! the last time i looked at your sedan i noticed the 5 spd and commented on the conversion. but my compliment was met by a dismissal, because since it was already 4wd, its not a conversion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. RX Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 Hey Fox, try to stay on track here, we were talking about the air suspension. And you're right, my replacing the 5speed push button with a 5 speed D/R would not be a conversion, it is a modification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c150L Posted October 31, 2003 Share Posted October 31, 2003 I have an 89 XT 4wd, 5 speed, with air suspension sitting behind the shed. Do not remember if it is DR or PB 4wd. Way cool on the new air suspension. My 89 XT6 is still up on air and I love it. AWD, rain snow, ice, it doesn't matter. It's all fun. One of my boys friends was being cool last winter out in the middle of our field with his big Dodge 4x4 in the snow. I stopped at the edge, hit the button for HIGH suspension, then proceded out in the field beside him. Asked him what the HE$% he was doing out in my field. LOL. Still wonder why the US XT6s didn't have a height switch. Had to rig my own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted November 1, 2003 Share Posted November 1, 2003 so if i put a turbo motor in an spfi wagon, it would not be conversion, just a mod, because it already had a motor? my bad. i thought it was an automatic to begin with. but anyway, i would define a conversion as going from one thing to something else, wheras a mod would be doing something to what was already there. for example, regular struts to air struts=conversion adding gl-10 seats and interior pieces=conversion put in an LSD=conversion strut spacers or bracings=mod putting hatch tracks on a gl-10 seat to make it slide forward by the little lever on the back=mod welding a rear diff=mod so by these terms my TrashWagon5 (the one at the show) the 5spd dual range would be a conversion, because it was 2wd. By your definition, it would be a mod, because it was a 5spd, or MT. the ea82 motor would be a conversion, as well as the suspension. the whole driveline and suspension is ea82, so the whole car would be an ea82 conversion. it wouldnt be an ea82 mod, because it is all stock ea82 parts. now the strut caps themselves would be a mod, because it is altered from its stock state to accept a (stock part)conversion(ea81 strut cap on ea82 strut and spring) Now for mod's sake, the sheetmetal armor, the carpet, and the once present 6 inch lift were mods. Now lets reflect on your sedan. I would define the transmission swap as a conversion. but the Pugeot wheels i wold consider a Mod. now for removing all of the air ride, i would call that a conversion, or more appropriately, a retrofit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted November 1, 2003 Share Posted November 1, 2003 Originally posted by WJM Even in stock form, the RX would spin an inside tire on hairpin bends when I get back on the gas. Add it was DRY tarmac too. Not it had rear LSD too, i think it was the inside front spinning now that I tihnk about it... i was having a similar discussion with a budy about explaining the RX open center diff, and the limited slip on the rear axle. we got so confused in our trying to understanding eachother that he suggested that "if i put the RX on jackstands, and turn the rear axle forward, then one front tire would spin the same way, and the other front tire would spin backwards." and then it made sense for both of us Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJM Posted November 1, 2003 Share Posted November 1, 2003 yup. Maybe...if it was in my budget, it would send that extra XT6 trans that I have off to get the center and front diffs LSD'ized. Oh, Id have to take them out and THEN send them, thats right...since i have to take it a part to fix the shifter forks to get it to shift in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. RX Posted November 1, 2003 Share Posted November 1, 2003 No Fox, a 2WD to a 4WD is a conversion. A 4 bolt pattern to a 5 bolt pattern is a conversion. The turbo engine replacement for a SPI engine is borderline. Replacing an open diff with a LSD is a mod. Adding GL-10 interior stuff is a mod. But I would call replacing air struts with standard struts a conversion, because of all the stuff that has to be pulled that is no longer used. The bottom line is that you can call it what you want, but don't get upset if I call it something different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted November 1, 2003 Share Posted November 1, 2003 i'm not upset- just needed to be sure what you meant the first time. now its all said and done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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