Hotrod For Lifw Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 Hi all i have recently recieved a ticket from an ignorant Wichita Police officer for allowing a passenger to ride where not intended(The BRAT jump seats) I know the seats are legal, but i just have to prove that in court. I called the sherrifs department and talked to a very helpful deputy that told me i was right when i said the jumpseats are a legal rear facing passanger compartment. He said that what he would do is take some snap shots of my jumpseats and get something off the web stating that they are stock seats intended for transportation of passangers on city streets, and not just for sitting in while at the lake hagin out with some friends. I am wondering if the owners manual that i dont have for my 81 BRAT GL would say that they are for transporting passangers on the street. Does anyone know? Thank you all for your replys in advance, Matt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahag1978 Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 Just look on the BRAT brochure with the red BRAT on the front. You can find it easy enough on-line, SUBARU3 has it on his website. The BRAT pictured is obviously being driven on the road with passengers in the jump seats. It was imported as a 4 passenger MPV, not a truck. Regarding state restrictions: http://www.iihs.org/laws/state_laws/cargo_laws.html If you can't find a picture of the brochure, I can scan mine and send it to you. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcbrat Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 it would really help too, if you still have seatbelts(working).... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuBrat84 Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 Get your title and registration out... it should say on there. If not on there, there is definately some proof you can find that the Brat with jumpseats was imported as a 4 passenger vehicle and it is completely legal to have passengers back there. Maybe try getting a hold of SOA (Subaru of America) and see if they can send you some paperwork proving your case. Just remember to submit all of your evidence with-in the proper time periods. (Though, you probably haven't even been to pre-trial yet.) Definately NOT GUILTY on this one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MachineAgeVictim Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 I'm sure the law is different from state to state, but this should be in FAQ if it isn't already, this is a great thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baccaruda Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 you should subpoena that officer, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahag1978 Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 "Kansas: Persons 14 and older; parades; employment; does not apply to vehicles not being operated in the state highway system or within the corporate limits of a city." I read this as that carrying a passenger in the cargo area is restricted to passengers 14 years or older WITH or WITHOUT SEATS OR RESTRAINT. 13 and younger offroad or on private ways, any age in parades on public ways. Fight it. There's no grey area here. Surprisingly, it's legal in MOST states for adults to ride in the area intended for cargo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NV Zeno Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 Does your BRAT have the plaque on the doorsill (driver side) that has the build date, etc? On my wagon it has passenger capactiy (in my case, 2 FRONT / 3 REAR) along with other vehicle info like VIN and loading info. That might help you. Just my 2 bucks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnW Posted June 17, 2006 Share Posted June 17, 2006 I am absolutely amazed that this thread or problem hasnt been discussed before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahag1978 Posted June 17, 2006 Share Posted June 17, 2006 I am absolutely amazed that this thread or problem hasnt been discussed before. I think it's because first of all, it's bloody obvious that the seats are grandfathered into law by almost all states. As are no third brake light, no seat belts in antique cars, which a '78 BRAT is, but was equipped and shall be liable for in inspection. Second, only a FEW states prohibit passengers from riding in cargo areas. It's a problem because some slap happy, no-common-sense cop decided to make it an issue. Kansas allows people 14 or older to ride in cargo areas... seat belts or not. Sorry, it makes my blood boil a bit... well more than a bit... my kid (age 32 now) grew up riding in the back of a BRAT, usually with a friend in the other seat... in my opinion, they were safer than the driver and front passenger! Rear facing... seat belts and headrests, I never feared for her life... ever. In the CJ-5 Jeep that we had, I was scared every minute... can you say... rollover=probable decapitation? Scary stuff... it got sold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerFahrer Posted June 17, 2006 Share Posted June 17, 2006 it would really help too, if you still have seatbelts(working).... I think this is what's going to make or break this case. I am absolutely amazed that this thread or problem hasnt been discussed before. +1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahag1978 Posted June 17, 2006 Share Posted June 17, 2006 I think this is what's going to make or break this case. +1. He never stated the AGE of the passenger. If the passenger was over 14, he's clear, there is no restriction... there's no indication that the passenger need be secured in a factory installed restraint system, or enclosed, nor have 3 sides enclosed. I wouldn't recommend riding on a highway without the seats, seat belts, headrests, but it's legal in his state of Kansas and actually has no specific bearing on riding in a BRAT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotrod For Lifw Posted June 17, 2006 Author Share Posted June 17, 2006 Well legaly its not a cargo area it was imported as a passanger compartment! I do have to plaque on the drivers door that says its an MPV and meets all safety requirements at time of manufacturing. it doesnt say anything about the seats though. i have brosure pics that some of my good friends from the Great Subaru BRAT club. The only thing they say about the seats in the back are that they are stock. I would bet more than half the cops here dont even know what a brat is. the cop that wrote me the ticket didnt know more than it was a subaru and it is registered as a light truck 12m regular even though it says BRAT right down the side on the decal, on the ticket he wrote Make:Subaru Model: Truck. At least he wasnt a real wongleflute about it he is just ignorant of the fact that the brat is legal to have rear passangers since it is the only "truck" exempt from the no passangers in the bed laws. My ticket started out being for "No DL in possesion" cause i lost it! "No proof of insurance" cause my policy just restarted and i hadnt recieved insurance cards yet. and " alow passanger to ride where not intended" I kind of put on a sad face about the No DL ticket since it was the only one that could stick and he said "since you have been so cool with me i will go ahead and take that ticket off" he took the time to talk to others about it and they all said that they had never heard of the brats the jumpseats being legal. He said if i prove him wrong when i take it to court he will state in court that he was wrong, which is going to be freaking sweet making a cop groval in court! I actually just thought of something else that can prove my case! What does BRAT stand for? Bi-drive Recreational All-terrain Transporter! I have court set up for Thursday July 13th. I was planing on fighting it as soon as i got the ticket but then i thought what if i lose thats another 75 bucks for court costs then i talked to sherrif and immediatly went to the court house to fight it! Thank you everyone again for your reply`s Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotrod For Lifw Posted June 17, 2006 Author Share Posted June 17, 2006 My passanger was 14 years of age! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerFahrer Posted June 17, 2006 Share Posted June 17, 2006 I understand the discussion here, if the passenger was 14 yrs or older, then he wouldn't have to be belted in and can legally ride in a "truck bed." But if he were belted into the jump seat, then he coulda been 5 years old and it would still be legal. Although, technically, if he weren't belted in, the ticket should be for nothing other than not wearing a seatbelt. But if he's 14, then Seahag is right, there are NO grounds whatsoever for him to get a ticket. Stick it to the man! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotrod For Lifw Posted June 17, 2006 Author Share Posted June 17, 2006 Court is the 13th i cant wait! Im going to love proving that cop wrong! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahag1978 Posted June 18, 2006 Share Posted June 18, 2006 Whoa now... cool your jets, please have some decorum and don't come off like a punk that knows more than the uninformed law enforcement officer that issued the ticket. It's a fairly unknown law and should remain so... please don't make waves to draw an unnecessary attention to it. Thanks. Mary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subiemech85 Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 just watch EARL, Joy hauled the kids in the back in a rainstorm !!!!! EARL has it's own thread! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncoolperson Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 ...My ticket started out being for "No DL in possesion" cause i lost it! "No proof of insurance" cause my policy just restarted and i hadnt recieved insurance cards yet. and " alow passanger to ride where not intended" I kind of put on a sad face about the No DL ticket since it was the only one that could stick and he said "since you have been so cool with me i will go ahead and take that ticket off" he took the time to talk to others about it and they all said that they had never heard of the brats the jumpseats being legal. He said if i prove him wrong when i take it to court he will state in court that he was wrong.... you know it doesn't seem like he was such a terrible cop, makes me wish atleast one cop that pulled me over was that that nice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotrod For Lifw Posted June 20, 2006 Author Share Posted June 20, 2006 Yeah all and all he was pretty nice about it. He just needs to be better imformed about such things. they put the young cops that dont have a whole lot of experience with situations like the brat, so they dont know the seats are legal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ever Victorious Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 Yeah all and all he was pretty nice about it. He just needs to be better imformed about such things. they put the young cops that dont have a whole lot of experience with situations like the brat, so they dont know the seats are legal. You can't expect anyone in any profession to know everything about it when they just start out. We learn by doing. Often times by mistakes as well. If he's young and inexperienced, he's learning, and the court will not punish you for it. If it is an honest mistake and he is unaware of the legality of 1) passengers in trucks and/or 2) passengers in jump seats, then certainly he will learn from court. There is no reason to "smear" it in his face or to think him stupid or a hardass because he gave you a ticket for what he may honestly not yet know is OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotrod For Lifw Posted June 20, 2006 Author Share Posted June 20, 2006 It's a fairly unknown law and should remain so... please don't make waves to draw an unnecessary attention to it. Thanks. I don't get what you mean by this. It sounds like you don't want everyone to know that riding in the jumpseats are legal? I thought the cop that pulled me over was a rookie the first time i met him after a fight with my older brother. but he started out as a sheriff about 10 years ago. I know the comments i made were a little uncalled for i was just venting because i got a ticket for something that was legal, and because he didnt want my friend in back made me do something that actually is illegal, which was put 3 people in my cab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosens Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 Can we just not get so defensive here,please?I'm not talking about hotrod...... He's not saying he's going to shoot the officer..... I've won in court on my own too,and it feels GREAT to win and not throw money to an attorney or pay court fees! Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotrod For Lifw Posted June 20, 2006 Author Share Posted June 20, 2006 Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahag1978 Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 Not defensive here... I'm glad to read that you were just venting. It can be a real rush to know you're right and the authority is wrong. Been there. I was merely stating that it's still legal and after reading your post, asking you to fight your fight "respectfully" without drawing unnecessary attention and having the law looked at too closely. Negative attention is a sure-fire way of getting things made illegal. I scanned that brochure for the Brat w/passengers driving on the public roadway, if you need it. I also have a "Car and Driver" article from February, 1978 with the specs 2+2 passengers. I'm on your side kiddo... just play nice with the police. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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