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EJ18S Performance


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#1 drink

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Posted 23 June 2006 - 04:18 PM

Hi, I recently purchased a 1993 Impreza LS with 225k miles. It had the timing belt changed about on schedule (at 110k mi, suggested is 105k for inspection) and it's probably about time for another one. Since it's a '93 LS it has an auto trans and AWD.

Now, I know I can swap an EJ22S or the 2.5 liter for that matter in there; certainly it seems like the 2.2 liter is not really worth it given how much more power comes out of the 2.5. Still, I haven't given up on the 1.8 liter yet. My prior ricemobile was a 1989 240SX, 2.4 liter 155bhp/155lb-ft, so the 2.5 will probably about do it. The weight of both vehicles is virtually identical. But, I'd like to explore other options.

More immediately, what's the cheapest intake worth buying? Long before I have money for a turbo kit or an engine swap, I'll have a few bucks to blow on an intake - is it even worth it? I don't know how restrictive the EJ18S' intake is.

The real question, though, is whether I should do an RS swap, or install a turbo kit. The 1.8 liter turbo available for my Nissan kicks out 180hp, can I get that much power out of the EJ18S? Redline seems to only be 6000 on my Impreza, I've heard that others have over 7000, but I don't know if my auto trans can even handle RPMs that high. I've heard it does fine with the improved power, though.

How much power can I get out of a turbo kit for the EJ18S? Is it possible and/or desirable to raise the rev limiter? Etc. Feel free to point me to other resources, I did do a search on this forum before posting but I might have just missed something.

#2 nipper

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Posted 23 June 2006 - 04:26 PM

There are reasons these engines last for ever, they are lazy. You cant just install a turbo on a engine with 225K on it, the rings wont support it.
Subarus have no hidden horsepower or torque. The flow is pretty much maxed out, so even if there was a manifold to buy, i wouldnt recomend it.
Another HUGE power loss is that transmission. Automatics pre 95 just sucked power.
Rev limiter is in the ecu, you cant change that. Auto trannies and turbos have short lives compared to non turbos. YOu need a much lower mileage engine, preferably a turbo with a manual tranny to do what you want.
Translation, buy another sooby thats already a turbo.

nipper

#3 Dr. RX

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Posted 23 June 2006 - 05:28 PM

What is an EJ22S and an EJ18S, I know what an EJ22 and an EJ18 is, but the 'S' is throwing me.

#4 nipper

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Posted 23 June 2006 - 06:24 PM

What is an EJ22S and an EJ18S, I know what an EJ22 and an EJ18 is, but the 'S' is throwing me.


a multiple or a possesive?

nipper

#5 DerFahrer

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Posted 23 June 2006 - 06:34 PM

Yeah, there is no EJxxS engine. You have an EJ18E in your 93 Impreza.

The EJ18 blocks are very receptive to a turbo install, provided you don't go crazy with it. It's still a 9.5:1 compression engine, so you can't run 14-15lbs without some SERIOUS engine management.

I'm starting an EJ18-T project myself (just picked up the longblock this past weekend), but I don't have time right now to go into detail about it.

#6 nipper

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Posted 23 June 2006 - 06:39 PM

Yeah, there is no EJxxS engine. You have an EJ18E in your 93 Impreza.

The EJ18 blocks are very receptive to a turbo install, provided you don't go crazy with it. It's still a 9.5:1 compression engine, so you can't run 14-15lbs without some SERIOUS engine management.

I'm starting an EJ18-T project myself (just picked up the longblock this past weekend), but I don't have time right now to go into detail about it.


its not the engine that bothers me:D , its the 225,000 mil;es and a turbo thats the problem. Engine should be rebuilt then have a turbo on it, otherwise there is a very strong possability of blowby.

nipper

#7 Dr. RX

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Posted 23 June 2006 - 08:16 PM

a multiple or a possesive?

nipper

Then is would be a lower case letter 's', not a capital letter 'S'.

#8 nipper

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Posted 23 June 2006 - 08:21 PM

with all the bad typping on this site, including mine, i assume nothing, and its better not to assume it of others. This place would drive a 3rd grade gramar teacher to suicide at times :lol:

nipper

#9 Dr. RX

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Posted 24 June 2006 - 09:32 AM

with all the bad typping on this site, including mine, i assume nothing, and its better not to assume it of others. This place would drive a 3rd grade gramar teacher to suicide at times :lol:

nipper

So you are just going to accept that? If you could improve, wouldn't you want to?

#10 nipper

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Posted 24 June 2006 - 10:47 AM

It can be considered rude and boarish to show other people's faults in a public forum, and last time i checked this was not the ultimate grammer message board. :headbang: . I actually went to school in a time when they cared about manners (just dont ask me what fork is used for what), and that was pointed out repeatedly. Sometimes the information presented is far more important then the manner in which it was delivered.
I managed a factory floor with 9 differnt languages and cultures under my supervision. If somone wanted to learen the language, I would help them, If they did not, and their communicatuion skills were getting their point across, i was happy with it. Written reports would be required to have proper grammer.
People of different languages and from different cultures use this board. Since I am far from perfect, I am not going to go around and correct peoples grammer (though I may point out that cars are powered by engines and not motors every so often):brow: .
Now that being said, I am going back to what this thread was about, and it wasn't grammer. (and i apologize for taking this thread way off topic).

I have looked on other boards, where others have made reference to an
EJxxs engine, but could not find out what they were talking about.
I hope that we havent scared off the original poster, as I would like to find out if he specifically is talking about some engine desgination we don't know about. This would not be the first time this has happened.

nipper

#11 DerFahrer

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Posted 24 June 2006 - 11:39 AM

The only thing it could possibly be, going by his location, would be maybe a Cali-spec engine, but that's it. Even that I've never heard of, so I doubt that.

#12 Dr. RX

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Posted 25 June 2006 - 12:36 AM

It can be considered rude and boarish to show other people's faults in a public forum, and last time i checked this was not the ultimate grammer message board. :headbang: . I actually went to school in a time when they cared about manners (just dont ask me what fork is used for what), and that was pointed out repeatedly. Sometimes the information presented is far more important then the manner in which it was delivered.
I managed a factory floor with 9 differnt languages and cultures under my supervision. If somone wanted to learen the language, I would help them, If they did not, and their communicatuion skills were getting their point across, i was happy with it. Written reports would be required to have proper grammer.
People of different languages and from different cultures use this board. Since I am far from perfect, I am not going to go around and correct peoples grammer (though I may point out that cars are powered by engines and not motors every so often):brow: .
Now that being said, I am going back to what this thread was about, and it wasn't grammer. (and i apologize for taking this thread way off topic).

I have looked on other boards, where others have made reference to an
EJxxs engine, but could not find out what they were talking about.
I hope that we havent scared off the original poster, as I would like to find out if he specifically is talking about some engine desgination we don't know about. This would not be the first time this has happened.

nipper

So, since we haven't heard back from the originator as to what he meant by his EJ18S, we can't make conclusions. You stated a possibility, I stated my interpretation of what that should be, you made a comment, then I asked if you were happy being that way. I have worked in 4 different countries not including the USA (and I don't mean Canada or Mexico), I have taught 'English as a Second Language' to over 40 different nationalities, I speak two other languages besides my own. I probably finished High School before you were born, back in a time when the ability to read and write were taken very seriously. Yes I get very frustrated with the English composition that I see here, but if I had a dollar for every time I didn't post a comment, I'd be a rich person. We, as Americans need to be more respectful of our language, I'm sure that the Japanese or Chinese don't make such mistakes. And you want to talk cultures, take you nick name "nipper", I know of at least two cultures that would be offended by that name.

So, if 'drink' is still out there, I would be interested in knowing what you meant by EJ18S and EJ22S. I'm open to new information and maybe you have found something that we all need to know.

#13 nipper

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Posted 25 June 2006 - 12:45 AM

And you want to talk cultures, take you nick name "nipper", I know of at least two cultures that would be offended by that name.

.


Dont blame me, blame RCA, thats where it comes from.

nipper

#14 drink

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Posted 26 June 2006 - 10:49 AM

Nope, I'm not scared off, I just have only dialup internet at home. Anyway, I could swear that EJ18S appeared in my owner's manual, but it's in the car right now and I'm not, so I can't check. I assumed the S stood for SOHC. Then again, I could have just hallucinated seeing it in there. If it weren't so hot out there, and so nice and cool in here, I'd go check :)

To soothe some of the concerns of others, it's pretty likely that I would rebuild the motor were I to put a turbo on it; I'd likely want to balance it and see if I can get the RPMs up - or is the 6,000 rpm redline on my '93 just a "to be safe" kind of thing? Not that I'd want to raise it on a high-mileage vehicle like mine. It's been babied (little old lady, all freeway miles, single owner) but that's a lot of miles no matter how you count. I'm looking for about 180hp (I'm realistic) so I'm thinking I wouldn't need to run more than about 12 psi? I would think that wouldn't be so unreachable, even with the factory compression.

Are there lower-compression pistons for EJ18?

#15 nipper

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Posted 26 June 2006 - 10:54 AM

Balancing is always good, even though boxers by thier nature are fairly well balanced. I dont know if you can raise the redline. On OBDII the ecu is programed to cut off the fuel at redline, I dont know if that is true on the OBDI

nipper

#16 drink

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Posted 26 June 2006 - 12:12 PM

Balancing is always good, even though boxers by thier nature are fairly well balanced. I dont know if you can raise the redline. On OBDII the ecu is programed to cut off the fuel at redline, I dont know if that is true on the OBDI

nipper


I'm not sure either. It's hard to tell with the slush box. I'm sure I'd need a tuner ECU to raise the redline, because AFAIK the ECU talks to the auto trans too, right? And that's electronically controlled. And, on top of that, the slush box may or may not be able to handle more than 6000 rpm. I do know that the owner's manual says not to operate the engine above redline for more than a few moments, so I suspect the OBD-I cars (at least '93/'94, maybe more) do NOT have a fuel cut, or it's at higher than 6k RPM. Certainly on the auto trans model it does not fuel cut at, say, 6100 rpm; the trans shifts shortly after that even if you have the hammer all the way down. I haven't tried it in second gear "manual" mode to see if it will go over redline, but I will soon (for a brief moment, natch.)

Mostly the redline thing is just curiosity. It probably wouldn't do any good without some a new cam anyway, in my case. If I had the 5 speed I might care. Sometime down the road I do want to buy something pissed off and AWD, but that will depend largely on which is cheaper (used) when I actually have money, WRX STi or Lancer Evo. Certainly, even my '93 Impreza LS is a sweet, sweet ride with the exception of the abject gutlessness. I live on a mountain (as per my profile) with twisty roads and potholes, and the impreza is a CHAMP everywhere but uphill. I can only imagine what it's like to drive a pumped turbo suby.

Any advice on where to pick up a factory service manual set, or should I just watch fleabay?

#17 Dr. RX

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Posted 26 June 2006 - 01:04 PM

Nope, I'm not scared off, I just have only dialup internet at home. Anyway, I could swear that EJ18S appeared in my owner's manual, but it's in the car right now and I'm not, so I can't check. I assumed the S stood for SOHC. Then again, I could have just hallucinated seeing it in there. If it weren't so hot out there, and so nice and cool in here, I'd go check :)

To soothe some of the concerns of others, it's pretty likely that I would rebuild the motor were I to put a turbo on it; I'd likely want to balance it and see if I can get the RPMs up - or is the 6,000 rpm redline on my '93 just a "to be safe" kind of thing? Not that I'd want to raise it on a high-mileage vehicle like mine. It's been babied (little old lady, all freeway miles, single owner) but that's a lot of miles no matter how you count. I'm looking for about 180hp (I'm realistic) so I'm thinking I wouldn't need to run more than about 12 psi? I would think that wouldn't be so unreachable, even with the factory compression.

Are there lower-compression pistons for EJ18?

Your explaination makes logical sense, but I have never known Subaru to us logic when assigning designations to engines. For example, logically the early WRX engines should be EJ20DET (EJ20, DOHC, Electronic Fuel Injection, Turbocharged) but it is an EJ20G.

Low compression 1.8 pistons would have to be custom made, but you could use the exhaust and turbo unit off of an EJ22T (ooppss Logic won out here), but you'd still have to use the 1.8 ECU.

#18 Dr. RX

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Posted 26 June 2006 - 01:08 PM

I'm not sure either. It's hard to tell with the slush box. I'm sure I'd need a tuner ECU to raise the redline, because AFAIK the ECU talks to the auto trans too, right? And that's electronically controlled. And, on top of that, the slush box may or may not be able to handle more than 6000 rpm. I do know that the owner's manual says not to operate the engine above redline for more than a few moments, so I suspect the OBD-I cars (at least '93/'94, maybe more) do NOT have a fuel cut, or it's at higher than 6k RPM. Certainly on the auto trans model it does not fuel cut at, say, 6100 rpm; the trans shifts shortly after that even if you have the hammer all the way down. I haven't tried it in second gear "manual" mode to see if it will go over redline, but I will soon (for a brief moment, natch.)

Mostly the redline thing is just curiosity. It probably wouldn't do any good without some a new cam anyway, in my case. If I had the 5 speed I might care. Sometime down the road I do want to buy something pissed off and AWD, but that will depend largely on which is cheaper (used) when I actually have money, WRX STi or Lancer Evo. Certainly, even my '93 Impreza LS is a sweet, sweet ride with the exception of the abject gutlessness. I live on a mountain (as per my profile) with twisty roads and potholes, and the impreza is a CHAMP everywhere but uphill. I can only imagine what it's like to drive a pumped turbo suby.

Any advice on where to pick up a factory service manual set, or should I just watch fleabay?

Some of the guys around here have installed EJ22's and EJ25's (the SOHC model) into theEJ18 powered cars and seem very happy with the power, you might try that route before turbocharging the EJ18.

If you have a 93, you are in luck because starting in 93 that started only issuing updated for the following years. If you owned a 97, you'd need all the books betwwen 93 and 97 to have the complete manual. I believe there are only two books for the 93 model year. You might have beeter luck finding a CD copy of the manuals then finding the actual book.

#19 1 Lucky Texan

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Posted 26 June 2006 - 02:51 PM

I'm not sure either. It's hard to tell with the slush box. I'm sure I'd need a tuner ECU to raise the redline, because AFAIK the ECU talks to the auto trans too, right? And that's electronically controlled. And, on top of that, the slush box may or may not be able to handle more than 6000 rpm. I do know that the owner's manual says not to operate the engine above redline for more than a few moments, so I suspect the OBD-I cars (at least '93/'94, maybe more) do NOT have a fuel cut, or it's at higher than 6k RPM. Certainly on the auto trans model it does not fuel cut at, say, 6100 rpm; the trans shifts shortly after that even if you have the hammer all the way down. I haven't tried it in second gear "manual" mode to see if it will go over redline, but I will soon (for a brief moment, natch.)

Mostly the redline thing is just curiosity. It probably wouldn't do any good without some a new cam anyway, in my case. If I had the 5 speed I might care. Sometime down the road I do want to buy something pissed off and AWD, but that will depend largely on which is cheaper (used) when I actually have money, WRX STi or Lancer Evo. Certainly, even my '93 Impreza LS is a sweet, sweet ride with the exception of the abject gutlessness. I live on a mountain (as per my profile) with twisty roads and potholes, and the impreza is a CHAMP everywhere but uphill. I can only imagine what it's like to drive a pumped turbo suby.

Any advice on where to pick up a factory service manual set, or should I just watch fleabay?


If you are gonna get into the internals and basically build an engine - then a LOT of possibilities open up for you. I dunno all of them, but between what some of the 'sand rail' community does to theses engines, and the Australians, and folks here and at www.nasioc.com - I'm sure you could beef up the output. Even spending a little xtra for a CCR short block or something might be an option. I do think getting the comp. ratio. down and adding the turbo is the way to go - better mileage if you keep your foot outta the boost but power on demand. Still, you're gonna be fighting engine management problems - what ECU to use? What about the tranny?

Seriously, consider selling your car to a student or something and start with an easier 'base' for the fun tuning/modding you want to do.

fun links;
http://www.outbackmo..._JDM_motors.htm
http://www.cgperformance.com/
http://www.ccrengines.com/
I found this thread interesting - dunno about helpful though! lol!;
http://forums.nasioc...6&highlight=1.8

(be sure to take pics of the project and check in for us once in a while - sounds like fun!)


Carl

#20 DerFahrer

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Posted 26 June 2006 - 04:52 PM

Your explaination makes logical sense, but I have never known Subaru to us logic when assigning designations to engines. For example, logically the early WRX engines should be EJ20DET (EJ20, DOHC, Electronic Fuel Injection, Turbocharged) but it is an EJ20G.


But not everyone is going to use Nissan engine designations ;).

We should be happy we get as informative engine designations as we do. How about Toyota? 1ZZ-FE?? Or Mitsubishi? 4G63?? Those tell you absolutely nothing.

You could drop the CR in an EJ18 by using different heads, like I'm going to do (eventually :rolleyes: ). The EJ18 heads don't flow worth crap anyway.

#21 drink

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Posted 26 June 2006 - 05:28 PM

You could drop the CR in an EJ18 by using different heads, like I'm going to do (eventually :rolleyes: ). The EJ18 heads don't flow worth crap anyway.


Which heads? Do you mean EJ22, or...? I imagine that would provide some improvement all by itself due to flow.

#22 subiefan

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Posted 26 June 2006 - 09:30 PM

Nope, I'm not scared off, I just have only dialup internet at home. Anyway, I could swear that EJ18S appeared in my owner's manual, but it's in the car right now and I'm not, so I can't check. I assumed the S stood for SOHC. Then again, I could have just hallucinated seeing it in there. If it weren't so hot out there, and so nice and cool in here, I'd go check :)...


No, you didn't hallucinate. It's in my owner's manual too. Page 11-2, Specifications. It says "Engine Model: EJ18S". No idea what it means, though. My car isn't California spec, so that's ruled out. I'm thinking it might just be a typo. There certainly are a handful in there.

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#23 nipper

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Posted 26 June 2006 - 09:33 PM

No, you didn't hallucinate. It's in my owner's manual too. Page 11-2, Specifications. It says "Engine Model: EJ18S". No idea what it means, though. My car isn't California spec, so that's ruled out. I'm thinking it might just be a typo. There certainly are a handful in there.

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can always drop subaru an email, they are good about answering them..

nipper

#24 Dr. RX

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Posted 27 June 2006 - 08:22 AM

No, you didn't hallucinate. It's in my owner's manual too. Page 11-2, Specifications. It says "Engine Model: EJ18S". No idea what it means, though. My car isn't California spec, so that's ruled out. I'm thinking it might just be a typo. There certainly are a handful in there.

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192k miles

Interesting, I'll have to check the owners manual on my 95 Legacy to see if it has a model number for the N/A EJ22.

#25 nipper

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Posted 27 June 2006 - 09:18 AM

my car is still at the dealer otherwise i would check too

nipper




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