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2.5L head gasket revised


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#1 tacoma5050

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Posted 25 July 2006 - 12:31 PM

As you all must know by now, in FEB 2004 SOA announced a campaign that addressed the HG issue in the 2.5 engines. That campaige only includes the 2.5L engine of years ‘99 – ‘02 and not all 2.5 engines in that year range are covered.

I am looking to buy an '01 to '03 outback, this will be my first Subaru, and this whole HG thing has me very nervous. I know this topic has probably been beaten like a dead horse here, but I have a few questions that I have not been able to find answers to before I buy:

1. I was all set to possibly buy an 03 Outback assuming that by 03 SOA must have addressed the HG issue in their new cars. But I have heard some owners of 03's have experienced HG problems. At what year is it safe to buy a 2.5L engine Subaru and not have to worry about the HG issue: 03, 04, and 05?

2. What did SOA do to eliminate the HG issue: newly designed HG? , new HG manufacturer? , new HG sealant?, new install procedure? , etc. Basically what was the original problem and how was it redesigned so it will not happen any more?

3. If your Subaru is one in the HG campaign, you are advised to put in a 'special conditioner'. What is that conditioner? What's in it? How does it stop or prevent the leaking? If the conditioner can plug or clog small leaking passages, why won't it clog or reduce the flow through small passages in the radiator or engine?
(In regards to question 3: I just got off the phone with SOA. They told me that starting in late 02 and in all 03's and up, SOA started adding the conditioner(StopLeak I guess)and put a newly designed HG in all the 2.5L engines. So if you have a 2003 or newer, you supposidly have the conditioner. (I hope this stuff does not affect the radiator) Anyone out there with an '03 or newer who can look at their owners manual(or maybe a sticker somewhere) and tell me if the conditioner is in fact required on coolant changes. )

4. If an engine is included in the HG campaign and SOA authorizes the HG to be replaced, when the new HG is put in are you still required to use the special additive?

5. I found a 02 outback for sale, it has a HG that leaks externally. I called SOA, they said that cars VIN is not part of the campaign and is not covered. How is that? Did this happen to many owners with the HG issue? Is this a way for SOA to say they are doing something for their customers, but in most cases they are not?

6. What percentage of the 2.5L phase II engines had the HG problem?
Do some years have a worst percentage than others? If yes, which?

7. Does anyone know the VIN ranges that are included in the SOA HG campaign?

#2 grossgary

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Posted 25 July 2006 - 12:46 PM

there are no hard and fast facts about the head gasket issues. you can hear lots of oppinions and experiences but they are individual experiences and oppinions, none of which provide the quantitative answers you're looking for.

Subaru did change the headgasket and that's the major modification that i'm aware of. i have not heard of other changes. i was under the impression that the "issues" ceased in 2000 or 2001, earlier than the info you provided suggests. it is said that installing the new headgasket nearly permanently solves the head gasket issues by itself. reoccurrence with the new headgasket is very rare and when it does happen can probably be attributed to something else (installation, old stock gasket, over heating due to failed water pump/radiator.etc).

#3 cabron

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Posted 25 July 2006 - 01:23 PM

As you all must know by now, in FEB 2004 SOA announced a campaign that addressed the HG issue in the 2.5 engines. That campaige only includes the 2.5L engine of years ‘99 – ‘02 and not all 2.5 engines in that year range are covered.

I am looking to buy an '01 to '03 outback, this will be my first Subaru, and this whole HG thing has me very nervous. I know this topic has probably been beaten like a dead horse here, but I have a few questions that I have not been able to find answers to before I buy:

1. I was all set to possibly buy an 03 Outback assuming that by 03 SOA must have addressed the HG issue in their new cars. But I have heard some owners of 03's have experienced HG problems. At what year is it safe to buy a 2.5L engine Subaru and not have to worry about the HG issue: 03, 04, and 05?

2. What did SOA do to eliminate the HG issue: newly designed HG? , new HG manufacturer? , new HG sealant?, new install procedure? , etc. Basically what was the original problem and how was it redesigned so it will not happen any more?

3. If your Subaru is one in the HG campaign, you are advised to put in a 'special conditioner'. What is that conditioner? What's in it? How does it stop or prevent the leaking? If the conditioner can plug or clog small leaking passages, why won't it clog or reduce the flow through small passages in the radiator or engine?
(In regards to question 3: I just got off the phone with SOA. They told me that starting in late 02 and in all 03's and up, SOA started adding the conditioner(StopLeak I guess)and put a newly designed HG in all the 2.5L engines. So if you have a 2003 or newer, you supposidly have the conditioner. (I hope this stuff does not affect the radiator) Anyone out there with an '03 or newer who can look at their owners manual(or maybe a sticker somewhere) and tell me if the conditioner is in fact required on coolant changes. )

4. If an engine is included in the HG campaign and SOA authorizes the HG to be replaced, when the new HG is put in are you still required to use the special additive?

5. I found a 02 outback for sale, it has a HG that leaks externally. I called SOA, they said that cars VIN is not part of the campaign and is not covered. How is that? Did this happen to many owners with the HG issue? Is this a way for SOA to say they are doing something for their customers, but in most cases they are not?

6. What percentage of the 2.5L phase II engines had the HG problem?
Do some years have a worst percentage than others? If yes, which?

7. Does anyone know the VIN ranges that are included in the SOA HG campaign?


Great questions; i look forward to the responses.

#4 shaggywerewolf

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Posted 25 July 2006 - 02:17 PM

(In regards to question 3: I just got off the phone with SOA. They told me that starting in late 02 and in all 03's and up, SOA started adding the conditioner(StopLeak I guess)and put a newly designed HG in all the 2.5L engines. So if you have a 2003 or newer, you supposidly have the conditioner. (I hope this stuff does not affect the radiator) Anyone out there with an '03 or newer who can look at their owners manual(or maybe a sticker somewhere) and tell me if the conditioner is in fact required on coolant changes.


Well, I own a 2003 OBW, and I'm quite certain that there's no mention in the manual regarding the addition of any kind of conditioner when changing the coolant. I can double check, however, to be sure. I had the car in a month ago for the 30K service, and they indeed put the conditioner in as part of the coolant change. Up until now, I was not aware that the conditioner extended to my MY; I was under the impression that the conditioner was supposed to be added up until late MY02.

#5 nipper

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Posted 25 July 2006 - 03:44 PM

No one has mentioned vin numbers before. They just put the additive in and seem to be covered. Also if you stand your ground and make a stink, you usually get it covered. Some dealers are better at taking the job on then others (i dont mean quality of work).
Seems a bit odd but been a few weeks since a HG issue has come up.


nipper

#6 blitz

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Posted 25 July 2006 - 04:17 PM

Here's the text of the conditioner propaganda.

**** ******!

---------------------------------------------------------

WWP-99 Service Campaign - Cooling System Conditioner

Subaru has determined that certain 1999 through 2002 model year 2.5L equipped Subaru vehicles may experience an external coolant leak from the cylinder head gaskets. This is the result of normal relative thermal expansion and contraction variations of engine parts. As a precautionary measure, SOA is recommending that a special conditioner be added to the engine cooling system to prevent leaks from occurring or to correct existing leaks.

Only early Phase II 2.5 liter engines are affected by this campaign. Phase I 2.5 liter engines (some 1999 model year and prior years) are not affected. Countermeasures applied to the manufacturing process for those 2002 and later VINS not affected by this campaign have eliminated the need for this campaign to be performed on those vehicles.

In the future, it will be necessary to add Genuine Subaru Cooling System Conditioner to the SUBARU vehicle cooling system whenever the engine coolant is replaced. The updated recommended service procedure as well as intervals for coolant replacement will be added to all applicable service manuals. As a reminder, we will include an update page in the owner notification letters that should be added to the Owner’s Manual and Warranty and Maintenance Booklet. We ask you to keep in mind that replacement of fluids (including Subaru Cooling System Conditioner) during inspection and maintenance services are not covered under warranty.

If the vehicle owner has this Service Program repair performed promptly, Subaru will extend coverage under the Subaru Limited Warranty on the vehicle for cylinder head gasket external coolant leaks to a period of 8 years or 100,000 miles, whichever occurs first. Warranty coverage begins on the date the vehicle was delivered to the first retail purchaser. If the vehicle was used as a demonstrator or company vehicle before being sold at retail, warranty coverage begins on the date the vehicle was first placed in such service. As a further condition for this extended warranty coverage to apply, the vehicle owner must have Genuine Subaru Cooling System Conditioner added to the vehicle at any subsequent cooling system services at the interval specified in the Warranty and Maintenance Booklet under the heading “Schedule of Inspection and Maintenance Services”.

Dealers will automatically be sent an initial quantity of Genuine Subaru Cooling System Conditioner. Dealer bulletins and affected VIN lists will be mailed to dealers in early February 2004. Owner notification letters are scheduled for mailing in stages.


#7 The Dude

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Posted 25 July 2006 - 05:30 PM

You are asking very good questions. Unfortunately, Subaru of America is the only entity that can answer most of them.

I have been on this board since 1999. I owned a 1999 Forester, and I recently replaced that car with a 2006 Forester. My responses are based on my perceptions of board activity.

The 1999-2002 external head gasket problem did not appear to be that big of a deal. Relatively few Subaru owners reported external head gasket failures. I didn't even bother putting the stop leak in my 1999 Forester.

Let's deal with 2.5L SOHC engines from 2003 to the present. Do these engines suffer from a higher head gasket failure rate than say, Toyotas or Nissans? I have no way of being certain, but I would say probably not.

So, yes, there are late model year Subarus with head gasket failures. The same is true of every car manufacturer. However, I seriously doubt that Subaru's current head gasket failure rate is significantly greater than any other comparable manufacuturer's. Overall, Subarus tend to be pretty tough and dependable cars.

#8 Gnuman

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Posted 26 July 2006 - 04:13 AM

there are no hard and fast facts about the head gasket issues. you can hear lots of oppinions and experiences but they are individual experiences and oppinions, none of which provide the quantitative answers you're looking for.

Subaru did change the headgasket and that's the major modification that i'm aware of. i have not heard of other changes. i was under the impression that the "issues" ceased in 2000 or 2001, earlier than the info you provided suggests. it is said that installing the new headgasket nearly permanently solves the head gasket issues by itself. reoccurrence with the new headgasket is very rare and when it does happen can probably be attributed to something else (installation, old stock gasket, over heating due to failed water pump/radiator.etc).


*waves hands* These are not the issues you are looking for. . .

OK, silliness aside, the issue that you are speaking of predates the issue that this thread is about:
Your issue - the 96-99 DOHC phase I 2.5L engine suffered a high incidence (by Subaru standards) of head gasket failure between the combustion chamber and the coolant jacket. This was corrected with a redesigned headgasket (which supercedes the old type, so if you order a headgasket for these engines, you will only get the new one by now), which, with a proper repair procedure, permanently fixes the headgasket problem (incidence of repeat failure is very low after proper repair). If you have a failed headgasket in these years, replace it, and have the heads checked for flatness (and milled only if needed). This will correct the problem.

The issue at hand here - The phase II SOHC 2.5L engines suffered from a high incidence (by Subaru standards, but lower than the DOHC units) of head gasket failure between the coolant jacket and the outside environment. Subaru initally "resolved" this by mandating the use of a "conditioner" that ammounts to little more than a "stop-leak" type product. By the information I have gotten, this conditioner has caused as many or more problems than the original HG failure. If Subaru has indeed corrected the head gasket problems on these model years with an updated head gasket, then I would recomend using that, and skipping the "conditioner".

IMNSHO, the "conditioner" solution was an effective "slap in the face" to all the loyal Subaru owners that had upgraded to these model years of cars. I doubt they could have more effectively sabotaged customer loyalty if they had actually been trying to.

#9 tacoma5050

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Posted 26 July 2006 - 11:23 AM

...snip... Subaru initally "resolved" this by mandating the use of a "conditioner" that ammounts to little more than a "stop-leak" type product. By the information I have gotten, this conditioner has caused as many or more problems than the original HG failure. If Subaru has indeed corrected the head gasket problems on these model years with an updated head gasket, then I would recomend using that, and skipping the "conditioner"...snip..


And there within lies another question: If the new gasket design REALLY fixes the problem, why then is SOA adding the conditioner to cars('03,'04...) with the new gasket? Who wants the equivilant of Stop-Leak running thru their radiator and heater core, if there is supposidly no need for it? I called SOA and they said the conditoner is even going in new 2.5L cars coming off the line today. I called a Subaru dealer and asked the service guy: If I were to have you flush a 03 outback cooling system, would you add the conditioner when you refilled it, he said yes, it is required by SOA.

I am starting to wonder about buying a 2.5L Subaru, yeah any car can blow a HG and they do, but who wants to buy a brand new car with Stop-Leak in it from the factory? I normaly associate Stop-Leak type products as those you use when a car is on it's last legs and you are just trying to cheaply get another 10k miles out of it before you junk it. So you don't care if it causes other problems.

#10 blitz

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Posted 26 July 2006 - 01:13 PM

IMNSHO, the "conditioner" solution was an effective "slap in the face" to all the loyal Subaru owners that had upgraded to these model years of cars. I doubt they could have more effectively sabotaged customer loyalty if they had actually been trying to.

Check the most recent addendum to the service manual ("bailing wire, duct tape, and stop-leak"). :-\ :mad:

The effectiveness of the conditioning process is corollary to the amount of flouride in the water, wink ...wink. ;)

**** ****!

#11 tom dennen

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Posted 26 July 2006 - 03:00 PM

My family owns 4 subarus, (93 & '05 imprezza; 99 & 06 SOB). My son's '93 with the 1.8 L engine has 140K on it and seems to run and run. However my '99 OB with 49k miles just blew a head gasket.:headbang: Two months earlier the dealer put in 'coolant' conditioner and explained it was a lubricant for the water pump and gasket conditioner. After researching I learned they applied the 'solution' SOA reccomended for '99-'02 cars. Repairs included new radiator, thermasat, water pump, and machining the heads. The cost was estimated to be $2k+. I was PISSED. This happened to me with a 5 year old Ford T-Bird that I'd bought new. I switched to Subaru EXPECTING to be done with mickey mouse problems like this. The dealer ended up charging me $440. :) SOA was not helpful stating the obvious and noting that the warrenty expired years ago. (Does this mean I should buy the extended warranty.. or Hyundai?) Over the past 18 months other unexpected problems have occured (oil pump, o2 & knock sensor failed, HVAC control module failed) costing $1.5K to repair. Can I expect continuing worsening quality problems with the '99? My faith in Subaru aledged 'quality' is dimming!!!

#12 Gnuman

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Posted 26 July 2006 - 03:19 PM

My family owns 4 subarus, (93 & '05 imprezza; 99 & 06 SOB). My son's '93 with the 1.8 L engine has 140K on it and seems to run and run. However my '99 OB with 49k miles just blew a head gasket.:headbang: Two months earlier the dealer put in 'coolant' conditioner and explained it was a lubricant for the water pump and gasket conditioner. After researching I learned they applied the 'solution' SOA reccomended for '99-'02 cars. Repairs included new radiator, thermasat, water pump, and machining the heads. The cost was estimated to be $2k+. I was PISSED. This happened to me with a 5 year old Ford T-Bird that I'd bought new. I switched to Subaru EXPECTING to be done with mickey mouse problems like this. The dealer ended up charging me $440. :) SOA was not helpful stating the obvious and noting that the warrenty expired years ago. (Does this mean I should buy the extended warranty.. or Hyundai?) Over the past 18 months other unexpected problems have occured (oil pump, o2 & knock sensor failed, HVAC control module failed) costing $1.5K to repair. Can I expect continuing worsening quality problems with the '99? My faith in Subaru aledged 'quality' is dimming!!!


Tom, First off welcome to USMB. Second, is your engine a SOHC or DOHC? If I remember correctly the 99 Outback was DOHC and the conditioner was not applicable to them. The conditioner is only applicable to SOHC engines, which have the external headgasket leak. The DOHC engines have an internal headgasket leak, for which the corrective measure is to replace the headgasket with a redesigned one that is more robust. This is actually a correct fix for headgasket problems in the DOHC engines, as it corrects the problem almost 100% of the time. In 99, only the Forester and Impreza models had the SOHC engine, and they went to the full line in 00, If I recall correctly.

#13 dxrflyboy

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Posted 26 July 2006 - 06:31 PM

As you all must know by now, in FEB 2004 SOA announced a campaign that addressed the HG issue in the 2.5 engines.

1. I was all set to possibly buy an 03 Outback assuming that by 03 SOA must have addressed the HG issue in their new cars. But I have heard some owners of 03's have experienced HG problems. At what year is it safe to buy a 2.5L engine Subaru and not have to worry about the HG issue: 03, 04, and 05?

We're changing headgaskets on '03s and '04s. I HOPE the problem is fixed on '05 and newer cars. At least SOA publicly recognized the problem in early '04, so one can only hope that the updated HGs were used in engines thereafter.

#14 Olnick

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Posted 27 July 2006 - 12:00 AM

I HOPE the problem is fixed on '05 and newer cars . . . so one can only hope that the updated HGs were used in engines thereafter.


Interesting choice of words, dxrflyboy. I think you made a very heavy statement, even if inadvertently!

"Hoping" is not enough when you're plonking down tens-of-thousands of dollars for a new vehicle. SOA's lack of candor and responsibility in the entire head gasket fiasco has undermined confidence in the brand. And pushing stopleak as a solution doesn't help either.

I've been a Subaru driver (and lover and cheerleader) for over 20 years, but when my faithful '95 Legacy moves on to boxer heaven, as surely it must someday, I don't know what I'm going to do.

Right now I wouldn't consider anything with a 2.5 liter in it.

Just my $.02. By the way, I hope you're right!

#15 nipper

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Posted 27 July 2006 - 12:04 AM

Interesting choice of words, dxrflyboy. I think you made a very heavy statement, even if inadvertently!

"Hoping" is not enough when you're plonking down tens-of-thousands of dollars for a new vehicle. SOA's lack of candor and responsibility in the entire head gasket fiasco has undermined confidence in the brand. And pushing stopleak as a solution doesn't help either.

I've been a Subaru driver (and lover and cheerleader) for over 20 years, but when my faithful '95 Legacy moves on to boxer heaven, as surely it must someday, I don't know what I'm going to do.

Right now I wouldn't consider anything with a 2.5 liter in it.

Just my $.02. By the way, I hope you're right!


I woulld buy any 2.5L in a heartbeat. in fact i have. i like the torquyness of the engine. Also i would rather buy a car that if it is going to have a problem, is very well documented, as opposed to a mystery problem no one can solve.

nipper

#16 dxrflyboy

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Posted 27 July 2006 - 06:07 AM

I woulld buy any 2.5L in a heartbeat. in fact i have. i like the torquyness of the engine. Also i would rather buy a car that if it is going to have a problem, is very well documented, as opposed to a mystery problem no one can solve.

nipper

Older Legacy GTs, Outbacks, and '98 Foresters can be a gold mine if you don't mind pulling the engine and putting in new head gaskets. Sometimes you can pick them up for a song, replace head gaskets and seals, and then make a few bucks selling them.

#17 1 Lucky Texan

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Posted 27 July 2006 - 08:19 AM

I seem to recall the external coolant weeping occuring in colder climates too.

I think GM and maybe other manufacturers ship cars with a coolant leak additive too.

Still, the older engines with the internal leak would be a bigger issue for me.

Carl

#18 tacoma5050

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Posted 27 July 2006 - 03:47 PM

If you go to this link
http://www.maddyhome... 25 engine.html

and scroll down to almost the bottom, you will read about "Trapped air in coolant in 2.5L engines". I will include text at end here.

The article sez Subaru has since changed their cooling system design.
Does anyone know when this design went into prodution? I called a subi dealer he was vague, he guessed late 2004. He said you will know it is the later 04 engine by not seeing the fuel filter near the back drivers side firewall. Can any one comfirm if the 2.5's were redesigned to address trapped air in coolant and when did that mod go into production?

Trapped air in coolant:
The 2.5 liter Subaru is sensitive to air bubbles in the coolant. It only takes about 1/2 cup of air in the engine block to cause heat transfer problems. This engine is particularly sensitive. Trapped air is easily 10 times more significant than any other cooling parameter. It's pretty conclusive that trapped air causes local boiling in the block. This affects the entire cooling sys and rapidly degrades heat transfer.
..snip.. All of these problems were caused by a small quantity of air trapped in the block at the highest point. Eventually, I added a small diameter tube to this block high point. This allows all the air to exit the block and move to the small reservoir under the radiator cap. Unfortunately, all of my deliberate overheating caused the heads to warp. This allowed compression gasses to flow into the cooling sys during high power settings. My computer detected this problem. 3 seconds after applying full throttle, the coolant pressure would rise to 24 psi. It would then slowly drop 5 seconds later.
So trapped air causes head warp, which causes air to enter the cooling system. It was pretty amusing that at the same time I discovered this entrained air sensitivity in the 2.5 engine, so too did the auto dealers. Head warp caused by customers changing their coolant is now the number one warranty item with this engine. All caused by an engine block that was not plumbed to dynamically remove air from the high point. Subaru has since changed their cooling system design.
It's essential that the 2.5 liter coolant crossover tube atop the engine be drilled and tapped. This allows user to add a small tube from there to the coolant reservoir. Any air inside the engine block then automatically purges. Proof of effective purging is that I can now drain all the coolant from the entire sys, then refill. Every drop can be refilled without hesitation. Before adding this air purge, I would end up with a few cups of fluid that I could not get back in to the system. Also, I now can't get the engine to gurgle after a hot shut down.

#19 arbee524

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Posted 08 August 2006 - 07:50 PM

Blitz

Where did you get the WWP-99 Service Campaign letter? I couldn't find it on the Subaru website. I have a 2000 Legacy that has the problem and I'm going to Subaru next week.

Thanks

Here's the text of the conditioner propaganda.

**** ******!

---------------------------------------------------------

WWP-99 Service Campaign - Cooling System Conditioner

Subaru has determined that certain 1999 through 2002 model year 2.5L equipped Subaru vehicles may experience an external coolant leak from the cylinder head gaskets. This is the result of normal relative thermal expansion and contraction variations of engine parts. As a precautionary measure, SOA is recommending that a special conditioner be added to the engine cooling system to prevent leaks from occurring or to correct existing leaks.

Only early Phase II 2.5 liter engines are affected by this campaign. Phase I 2.5 liter engines (some 1999 model year and prior years) are not affected. Countermeasures applied to the manufacturing process for those 2002 and later VINS not affected by this campaign have eliminated the need for this campaign to be performed on those vehicles.

In the future, it will be necessary to add Genuine Subaru Cooling System Conditioner to the SUBARU vehicle cooling system whenever the engine coolant is replaced. The updated recommended service procedure as well as intervals for coolant replacement will be added to all applicable service manuals. As a reminder, we will include an update page in the owner notification letters that should be added to the Owner’s Manual and Warranty and Maintenance Booklet. We ask you to keep in mind that replacement of fluids (including Subaru Cooling System Conditioner) during inspection and maintenance services are not covered under warranty.

If the vehicle owner has this Service Program repair performed promptly, Subaru will extend coverage under the Subaru Limited Warranty on the vehicle for cylinder head gasket external coolant leaks to a period of 8 years or 100,000 miles, whichever occurs first. Warranty coverage begins on the date the vehicle was delivered to the first retail purchaser. If the vehicle was used as a demonstrator or company vehicle before being sold at retail, warranty coverage begins on the date the vehicle was first placed in such service. As a further condition for this extended warranty coverage to apply, the vehicle owner must have Genuine Subaru Cooling System Conditioner added to the vehicle at any subsequent cooling system services at the interval specified in the Warranty and Maintenance Booklet under the heading “Schedule of Inspection and Maintenance Services”.

Dealers will automatically be sent an initial quantity of Genuine Subaru Cooling System Conditioner. Dealer bulletins and affected VIN lists will be mailed to dealers in early February 2004. Owner notification letters are scheduled for mailing in stages.



#20 Seahag1978

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Posted 08 August 2006 - 08:26 PM

My daughter is having this problem on her Forester. She hasn't had any luck getting Subaru to help her with it. The dealer isn't any help either. I have 5 Subarus and I'm a bit ticked off. The conditioner was added and bought SOA enough time to get her over the 100K. It's just wrong.

I did find a website:

www.subaruproblems.com

It appears to be a law firm looking to collect enough people for a class action law suit against Subaru... there's big money in class action suits for the lawyers... unfortunately, once they take their cut, the consumer usually only gets a small portion of the settlement :(

#21 The Dude

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Posted 09 August 2006 - 05:52 AM

My daughter is having this problem on her Forester. She hasn't had any luck getting Subaru to help her with it. The dealer isn't any help either. I have 5 Subarus and I'm a bit ticked off. The conditioner was added and bought SOA enough time to get her over the 100K. It's just wrong.

I did find a website:

www.subaruproblems.com

It appears to be a law firm looking to collect enough people for a class action law suit against Subaru... there's big money in it for the lawyers... unfortunately, the consumer only gets a small portion of the settlement :(


Unfortunately, a class action law suit may be the ONLY thing to force Subaru to act responsibly on this issue . The www. subaruproblems.com address should be made a "STICKY".

#22 arbee524

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Posted 14 August 2006 - 10:28 AM

Just got a call from Subaru, that they will repair my head gasket under warranty:burnout: . I've got a 2000 Legacy L with the 2.5L. The car has 90000 miles. They want $400 to replace the timing belt, is this a good price? The recommended replacement is at 105000 miles. Thanks in advance for any feedback.

#23 grossgary

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Posted 14 August 2006 - 10:35 AM

They want $400 to replace the timing belt, is this a good price?

yes and no. they have to remove the belts to do the head gasket so to replace the belt they are doing zero hours in labor. well...maybe 3 minutes to walk over and get it from the parts department. belt costs them maybe 50 dollars, so they're making a cool $350 off of doing nothing. that's like $6,000 per hour, sounds good to me! can i change your timing belts for $200 please? basically the dealer is trying to make a buck here....the gasket is covered under "warranty" by agreement and the dealer sells you on the t-belt.

don't know your car, but they should be offering to do more than just the t-belt. what about the water pump, oil pump seals, cam seals and t-belt pullies (those should all be tested and replaced if needed). after it's done the new t-belt won't be due again for 105,000 miles, if not replaced you're asking all these other things to last about 200,000 miles. i usually adress those at the same time. once they "get it apart" they will probably say...oh, you should get a new water pump, oil pump...seals....and $1,000 later they've made out pretty good on you even though they "covered" the head gaskets.
simple marketing strategies.

i did my cousins 2.5 last year for about $280 total in parts, t-belt, water pump, oil pump, seals, etc. my cousin was quoted $699 at a dealer, but that didn't include all the seals and tensioners i replaced, water pump and tbelt only.

if your t-belt is due or close to it, then one way or another it needs to be done soon. yours is an interference motor, you do'nt want to risk it. but dealers are not the cheap way to get your tbelts changed either.

#24 nipper

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Posted 14 August 2006 - 10:51 AM

Just got a call from Subaru, that they will repair my head gasket under warranty:burnout: . I've got a 2000 Legacy L with the 2.5L. The car has 90000 miles. They want $400 to replace the timing belt, is this a good price? The recommended replacement is at 105000 miles. Thanks in advance for any feedback.


thats a crummy price, they should be charging you only the cost of the parts. They have to remove the timing belt abyway, point this out to them. They are not doing you any favors with that 400.00

nipper

#25 Meeky Moose

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Posted 14 August 2006 - 11:21 AM

personally, i just bought an 01 outback.. its got 47k and already had teh conditioner put in.. no leaks.. besides, i bought the extended warranty too, that'll cover any HG issues i might see up to 5 years or 95k miles..

i'm not all that worried about it..




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