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Not responding ECM (computer) after flood...


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17 replies to this topic

#1 Gleb

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Posted 26 July 2006 - 01:50 PM

Folks!

I ran into a problem (read water) on my Legacy 97, 2.2...
It dried out but there are no signals comming from the ECM. As a consequence, no sparks, no injections, not even "check engine" light comming on...
I replaced the ECM... still the same story! It looks like voltage comes TO the ECM but nothing comes out.

I would really appreciate any suggestions on what to check/replace.

Thank you!

#2 nipper

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Posted 26 July 2006 - 03:57 PM

if the water reached the ecu the car is done. You can try replacing the ECU, but your going to have other mildew problems with the interior.

How deep was the water


nipper

#3 Gleb

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Posted 26 July 2006 - 10:10 PM

if the water reached the ecu the car is done. You can try replacing the ECU, but your going to have other mildew problems with the interior.

How deep was the water


nipper


covered the hood completely...
the ecu is gone but I got the replacement...

#4 nipper

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Posted 26 July 2006 - 10:20 PM

Man you have problems, was this river water or salt water. you are going to have harness issues in the futre, as well as upholstry, and other electrical probelms. Hope you did an oil change and took the plugs out of the car before you cranked it to make sure there is no oil in the engine. Check the tranny fluid, and you may have to replace differnetial fluids, along with power steering fluid if you had a loose cap.
Even if you do get it started, the car is going to be a huge headache in the next year.
There are some things from which there is no recovery, and this is one of them. The insurance compaines total a car if water reaches the dashboard, and they do this for good reason. Also being submurged for that long, the wheel bearings may have gotten contaminated if this was not a flash flood.
Also the TCU will prbbly not work, along with the stero, possibly the heater controls, the abs computer...
i can go on.

nipper

#5 Gleb

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Posted 26 July 2006 - 10:30 PM

Man you have problems, was this river water or salt water. you are going to have harness issues in the futre, as well as upholstry, and other electrical probelms. Hope you did an oil change and took the plugs out of the car before you cranked it to make sure there is no oil in the engine. Check the tranny fluid, and you may have to replace differnetial fluids, along with power steering fluid if you had a loose cap.
Even if you do get it started, the car is going to be a huge headache in the next year.
There are some things from which there is no recovery, and this is one of them. The insurance compaines total a car if water reaches the dashboard, and they do this for good reason. Also being submurged for that long, the wheel bearings may have gotten contaminated if this was not a flash flood.
Also the TCU will prbbly not work, along with the stero, possibly the heater controls, the abs computer...
i can go on.

nipper


sure, I changed all oils, plugs and stuff! It was a flush flood (rain water). The stereo should not be a problem since it was stolen a week after the flood. At least, not my problem.

I cleaned the ecu... than replaced it... still no response... I have no idea what else it can be. Any suggestions?

#6 nipper

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Posted 26 July 2006 - 10:35 PM

sure, I changed all oils, plugs and stuff! It was a flush flood (rain water). The stereo should not be a problem since it was stolen a week after the flood. At least, not my problem.

I cleaned the ecu... than replaced it... still no response... I have no idea what else it can be. Any suggestions?


do you even have power goping to it?

nipper

#7 ericem

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Posted 26 July 2006 - 10:47 PM

yup thats what he said nipper just not coming out of it.

#8 Manarius

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Posted 26 July 2006 - 10:54 PM

If it came up that far, I bet it toasted the whole harness. I'm sorry man, but your car is probably toast. These cars take a lot of crap, but they can't take flooding up that far.


#9 ericem

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Posted 26 July 2006 - 11:00 PM

REALLY!! but really? What if it were up to the wheels?

#10 nipper

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Posted 26 July 2006 - 11:02 PM

and thats where things get sticky. there are relays involed in this. The ecu communicates with over 50 different parts, through hundreds of feet of cable, and many connectors.
the time and money required to make this thing run my not be worth it.
For instance:
crank position senor
cam position sensor (both can be affected by rust)
catalytic converter is not made to be submurged
air flow sensor
numerous relays
i can go on. if there is no signal out to anything its almost impossible to tell him where to look.
the things that will keep the car from starting
no fuel
ruined or dirty mass air flow sensor
cam sensor
crank sensor
moisture in the plug wire boots
TPS sensor
Any number of shorts


if there is no spark you start with the crank sensor and cam sensor. CLean the air mass sensor. Check the TPS
i am assuming this thing cranks. Clean all the electrical connectors under the hood.

nipper

#11 Manarius

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Posted 26 July 2006 - 11:04 PM

Dirty/Broken MAF makes the car run like crap, but it will run.

It's a 97 though with the OBDII system. They're a lot more finicky then the OBDI systems.


#12 nipper

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Posted 26 July 2006 - 11:10 PM

Dirty/Broken MAF makes the car run like crap, but it will run.

It's a 97 though with the OBDII system. They're a lot more finicky then the OBDI systems.


well yes, but itself it will run, but with mutltiple failures of unknown origin, its just another nail in the coffin.

nipper

#13 nipper

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Posted 26 July 2006 - 11:14 PM

REALLY!! but really? What if it were up to the wheels?


Depends what you mean, the axles or over the wheels. Over the wheels and if it has breached the interior of the car, thats dashboard level. There is a reason all the brains are located inside the car, its a nice dry safe place for electronics.
Axle height should be ok. If the car was parked vs running is another issue. Some cars get thier intake air low (wheel level or lower) and will suck in water.
Upholstery will never dry.

nipper

#14 ericem

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Posted 26 July 2006 - 11:21 PM

O just wondering because i get worried if my sub will ever get caught in a flood as it has happened here, but only went 12 inches. How tight are these seals though i understand its not a boat though.

#15 nipper

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Posted 26 July 2006 - 11:37 PM

O just wondering because i get worried if my sub will ever get caught in a flood as it has happened here, but only went 12 inches. How tight are these seals though i understand its not a boat though.


There are two trouble spots. The doors trunk and gromits are tight seals. The tail lights are a reasonable seal.

The weak spots hand brake and shift linkage. They go through the floor, and are out of sight and out of mind. When the rubber there dries out and cracks, no one notices, or cares.

the other point of entry is the fresh air intake, and hidden exhaust vents in the car body. Water is that high the car is toast, as it is prbbly swimming and that point.

that reminds me i have a gromit i need to seal under the hood.


nipper

#16 nipper

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Posted 26 July 2006 - 11:52 PM

If we are going to get this thing started, you do know that there are two power inputs to the ecu? one that goes through the main relay, the other is through the ignition switch.

niper

#17 Gleb

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Posted 27 July 2006 - 11:47 AM

If we are going to get this thing started, you do know that there are two power inputs to the ecu? one that goes through the main relay, the other is through the ignition switch.

niper


Thank's for all your inputs!!!

Well, it looks like the power comming through the ignition switch is there. The red (hot at any time) is also there. Nothing comes through the main relay! But I thought the main ralay is operated by the ecu, is not it?

The camshaft sensor was dried. After that I could start the car (after drying spark plugs, changing oil, and the air filter) and move it to my place (about 300 meters). It ran like crap, of course, since the ecu got water (which I had no idea about at that point). After that it never started again... no sparks.

What's interesting, twice, when I connected the batery to try srating the engine, some weird sound came from under the hood. I could not locate it but my best estimate was somewhere benith the ignitor. It sounded like shortened wires sprking... The brain at that point was still full of water, btw...

Guess, the bottom line is don't be as stupid as I was and don't run into water deeper than one foot. :-\

#18 ericem

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Posted 27 July 2006 - 03:25 PM

Thank's for all your inputs!!!

Well, it looks like the power comming through the ignition switch is there. The red (hot at any time) is also there. Nothing comes through the main relay! But I thought the main ralay is operated by the ecu, is not it?

The camshaft sensor was dried. After that I could start the car (after drying spark plugs, changing oil, and the air filter) and move it to my place (about 300 meters). It ran like crap, of course, since the ecu got water (which I had no idea about at that point). After that it never started again... no sparks.

What's interesting, twice, when I connected the batery to try srating the engine, some weird sound came from under the hood. I could not locate it but my best estimate was somewhere benith the ignitor. It sounded like shortened wires sprking... The brain at that point was still full of water, btw...

Guess, the bottom line is don't be as stupid as I was and don't run into water deeper than one foot. :-\


Ya just because all 4 wheels are powered doesn't mean its a boat, who knows maybe in a few weeks it will dry out and go VRRRMM!! and it will work. Good luck man!




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