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Converting a fwd XT6 to a 5 speed


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24 replies to this topic

#1 benebob

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Posted 19 August 2006 - 04:38 PM

Found a 130k tranny, gauge cluster and all the other bits today and am looking to answer some questions.
1. Will a 2wd XT clutch be strong enough?
2. Will a 2wd XT turbo clutch/4wd clutch be strong enough AND fit on the 2wd XT tranny?
3. Will the axle splines be the same?

Any ideas out there?

Also are Danco clutches any good? Looking for cheap but durability is also key as I don't want to replace it anytime soon.

#2 jeffast

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Posted 19 August 2006 - 05:08 PM

i have a luc repset in my ft4wd xt6 it's starting to lose it's grip but thats with it being my daily driver through rush hr traffic with me doing 5k clutch dumps almost daily for the last eight months driving 20+ miles a day in rush hr traffic. it has like25,000 miles on it and it still grips fine it's not chirping all four tires going into second anymore but it still has plenty of grip
edit: this clutch cost 106 somthing about a year ago

#3 Caboobaroo

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Posted 19 August 2006 - 05:14 PM

best bet would be to get a XT6 clutch setup, and a lightened EA82 turbo 4wd flywheel, have the step machined right for the XT6 clutch setup and be done with it. The tranny should be fine. Kingbobdole has done this swap into his FWD XT6. Pretty spunky little car if you ask me!

#4 benebob

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Posted 19 August 2006 - 08:06 PM

best bet would be to get a XT6 clutch setup, and a lightened EA82 turbo 4wd flywheel, have the step machined right for the XT6 clutch setup and be done with it. The tranny should be fine. Kingbobdole has done this swap into his FWD XT6. Pretty spunky little car if you ask me!


I didn't ask for best bet. I know what the best bet is but don't have an XT6 flywheel, don't want to buy an XT6 clutch as it is 4x the price. I'm cheap :headbang: and have more pressing expenses but if I can make her work for under $200 with a clutch I'll do it! Its my understand although I never actually saw two side by side that the flywheel is the same regardless of 4wd, 2wd, turbo or not turbo.

Its my daily driver and my abused tranny has 205k on it. I'm not a 16 year-old racer-wanna-be like Jeff:grin: rather a 31 year old racer who trailers his toy to the track. I'm not worried too much with the 5k drops but just not slipping when you get on it ever now and again when pulling out in front of an 18 wheeler.

Yeah, the tranny is the same regardless of engines or turbos throughout the 82 era so I'm not worried a bit about the tranny taking it.

#5 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 19 August 2006 - 08:46 PM

Yeah, the tranny is the same regardless of engines or turbos throughout the 82 era so I'm not worried a bit about the tranny taking it.


You talking about the 2WD 5 speed? The EA82's used the same 2WD 5 speed as the EA81's thus the different clutch disc. I don't know about the XT6 tho - while that tranny would in fact bolt up, I'm not sure it would handle the output.

GD

#6 Caboobaroo

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Posted 19 August 2006 - 08:49 PM

well then you have to ask yourself, if you like replacing clutches because I can fry a stock 4wd turbo clutch with a stock 4wd turbo car pretty easily. Since the XT6 has more torque and more horses then a stock turbo EA82, you're going to be smoking clutches like crazy. If you decide to go cheap, it'll cost you more in the long run. 2wd and 4wd clutches are different sizes. I an get a pic for you of a side by side comparison of flywheels if you like. This is why I said best bet, but the ultimate decision is up to you.

#7 benebob

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Posted 19 August 2006 - 09:43 PM

You talking about the 2WD 5 speed? The EA82's used the same 2WD 5 speed as the EA81's thus the different clutch disc. I don't know about the XT6 tho - while that tranny would in fact bolt up, I'm not sure it would handle the output.

GD


Yeah, it'll be staying 2wd which is the same tranny as the 2wd Turbo with virtually the same torque used as well if I'm not mistaken.

#8 benebob

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Posted 19 August 2006 - 09:51 PM

well then you have to ask yourself, if you like replacing clutches because I can fry a stock 4wd turbo clutch with a stock 4wd turbo car pretty easily. Since the XT6 has more torque and more horses then a stock turbo EA82, you're going to be smoking clutches like crazy. If you decide to go cheap, it'll cost you more in the long run. 2wd and 4wd clutches are different sizes. I an get a pic for you of a side by side comparison of flywheels if you like. This is why I said best bet, but the ultimate decision is up to you.


The torque is fairly equal between the turbo 4 and 6 which is what really matters with clutches if I understand 'em correctly. Anybody can fry a clutch. They just need to forget how to drive or drive like a 16 year old racer-wanna-be. The clutches are slightly different BUT to my recollection I thought the flywheel was the same.

The car gets maybe 8k at most a year as I have plenty of other choices in the driveway and like I said, I don't drive like an idiot so I'd suspect my clutch provided it has enough friction surface to run properly under normal driving conditions would probably outlast most of the older subies on the board. Again back to the original questions as I didn't ask for the best bet but rather:

1. Will a 2wd XT clutch be strong enough?
2. Will a 2wd XT turbo clutch/4wd clutch be strong enough AND fit on the 2wd XT tranny flywheel?
3. Will the axle splines be the same?

#9 jeffast

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Posted 19 August 2006 - 10:33 PM

#3: no
#1: probably not
#2: it will probably fit but on the clutch it is a pay now or pay later if you go the cheap way it will wear out very very fast and you will have to do it again, it doesn't reffer in any way to how you drive. the clutch was simply not ment to handle that kind of power the er27 puts out 40 more horspower and about the same in torque than the ea82t does. all i'm saying is no the plain clutch will not hold the power, the turbo clutch may but i'd be suprised if it lasted more then 7-10k. and the expensive way is to get an xt-6 fly wheel and clutch lighter and capable of handleing the power better.

#10 jeffast

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Posted 19 August 2006 - 10:43 PM

I'm a 31 year-old racer-wanna-be:grin:

i fixed this for you:grin:

#11 benebob

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Posted 20 August 2006 - 04:56 AM

#3: no
#1: probably not
#2: it will probably fit but on the clutch it is a pay now or pay later if you go the cheap way it will wear out very very fast and you will have to do it again, it doesn't reffer in any way to how you drive. the clutch was simply not ment to handle that kind of power the er27 puts out 40 more horspower and about the same in torque than the ea82t does. all i'm saying is no the plain clutch will not hold the power, the turbo clutch may but i'd be suprised if it lasted more then 7-10k. and the expensive way is to get an xt-6 fly wheel and clutch lighter and capable of handleing the power better.


Do you know from experience or what?

#12 bgd73

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Posted 20 August 2006 - 09:03 AM

There is a hoax with these clutches.....
the clutch too big starts to slip (EXACTLY the opposite of assumption by a majority). A small clutch gets "owned" by an engine - to break something else.Slip is not break- that really has to have deeper thought about your setup. Target anything out of balance/vibrating near clutch in the driveline if problems persist. Engine main bearings, out of tune, tranny with vibrations, even axles wobbling perfectly. I finally figured out on my humble 2wd that the clutch was huge to slip-- and it proved to be true after tinkering. I just saw on the web a super car with an 8 inch all carbon clutch (multi disc) setup on a 200mph top end.Now that is a genius who knows clutches- proving it out loud.:burnout:

#13 jeffast

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Posted 20 August 2006 - 10:42 AM

Do you know from experience or what?

okay turbo car axels have the same spline count as an xt-6 there for they will fit n/a axels have a different spline count so you will need new axels
tha na clutch is designed to handle 90 hp your effectivly doubleing that no way it can handle it.
the turbo clutch may handle it but your still exceeding it's limits and it's not going to last, or grip well at all.
aside form the axles it's all common sense

#14 kingbobdole

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Posted 20 August 2006 - 10:58 AM

Firstly, dont listen to Jeff, he's a crazy rice boy:lol:
Secondly, Jeff ADJUST YOUR CLUTCH!
And now for the matter at hand.
I had some issues finding the right clutch for my car... The 2wd flywheel and clutch combo is smaller, but I dont know about the 2wd turbo fly, if its the 4wd job or the 2wd job.... kinda a missing link. If you have the turbo 2wd fly and it is smaller, get the turbo 2wd clutch and your golden.... problem is that I think all the turbo cars, 4wd or not, use the bigger 4wd clutch/fly. Here are the 2 problems.. 1 is the axle splines... you MUST get a turbo tranny. the other is the clutch splines.. a 2wd N/A clutch WILL NOT FIT a tuurbo tranny... the turbo has a bigger input shaft. Trust me, I had a 2wd N/A setup and it didnt work.. in Fact I went to Luk and got a "turbo 2wd" clutch kit and after they called me a liar, I took the whole damn tranny down town to show them the clutch would not fit... then he tried to convince me my tranny was 4wd.... and it was sitting on the counter!:eek: Anyway, there are 2 ways to do it, either get the 6 set up or get a 4wd flywheel (turbo or non) and then the Turbo clutch. As far as holding power goes, dont worry about it. Your not speed ricer Jeff and your cars not a big power car, It'll be fine if your good to it. BTW Jeff, the stock turbo power is like 110, and IIRC the 87.5 had the same clutch and 130 HP... whats another 15 ponies? :burnout:



~The End

#15 jeffast

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Posted 20 August 2006 - 12:17 PM

:grin: phil stick this in your pipe and smoke it i have a stock xt-6 with a magnaflow exhaust and no chrome. you have a stock xt-6 with a chrome rice pipe ricer brand intake with ricer brand filter and your car has been lowerd and is painted rattle can yellow
so who's the ricer here?

#16 benebob

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Posted 20 August 2006 - 12:48 PM

Firstly, dont listen to Jeff, he's a crazy rice boy:lol:
Secondly, Jeff ADJUST YOUR CLUTCH!
Here are the 2 problems.. 1 is the axle splines... you MUST get turbo tranny. the other is the clutch splines.. a 2wd N/A clutch WILL NOT FIT a tuurbo tranny... the turbo has a bigger input shaft. Trust me, I had a 2wd N/A setup and it didnt work..



Did you really think I was listening to Jeff? I mean he doesn't even know what kind of car to take to a XT meet for crying out loud!

Why can't I just yank the stubby splines and put the splines from my auto in there (or if they won't fit one's from a turbo tranny).

What input shaft are you talking about? Its been years since I've looked at a manual tranny/engine combo and don't have a clue where the shaft is at. Is it engine or tranny side? If tranny side that would mean I would need a 2wd n/a clutch wouldn't it?

#17 subeman90

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Posted 20 August 2006 - 12:50 PM

but what aobut his axles? is he going to be able to use the XT6 automatic axles with the 5 speed NA tranny? Phil?

#18 jeffast

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Posted 20 August 2006 - 01:06 PM

Did you really think I was listening to Jeff? I mean he doesn't even know what kind of car to take to a XT meet for crying out loud!


ya but at least my car didn't blow up there like both of yours. might want to talk to your mechanic about that one

#19 subeman90

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Posted 20 August 2006 - 02:54 PM

he is his own mechanic. :headbang:

#20 mikeshoup

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Posted 20 August 2006 - 02:57 PM

ya but at least my car didn't blow up there like both of yours. might want to talk to your mechanic about that one

Should we discuss who had a hole through the top of his engine? At least their's made it to the dragon.

#21 benebob

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Posted 20 August 2006 - 03:58 PM

ya but at least my car didn't blow up there like both of yours. might want to talk to your mechanic about that one


They both got made it home just fine. Keep in mind that was more miles than I put on my SVX the previous 2 years plus they made a total of 10 drives through the dragon with experienced drivers giving them all they could. Who would've thought that 2 power steerings would go in the same weekend?:grin:

#22 jeffast

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Posted 20 August 2006 - 11:59 PM

Should we discuss who had a hole through the top of his engine? At least their's made it to the dragon.

mike you weren't there you blew a hg so stfu

he is his own mechanic. :headbang:

suddenly all his mechinical problems causes become clear:eek:

#23 kingbobdole

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 12:38 AM

Anyway, Jeff aside(whos just pissed because a few sundays ago I proved my driving skillz>Jeff's unskilled nesss by out running him in a loaded Rx.)... I've never presonally swapped the stubs, but assume that you could. you must use the turbo stubs. Turbo stubs allow you to use the stock XT6 alxes, and ALL XT-6s, auto or MT5 have the same axles. I hope thats clear...

#24 jeffast

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 12:54 AM

bull ************ you pulled a reck less manover nearly missed a sign and there was insufficient space between you and the car behind you for me to get in
ricer

#25 benebob

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Posted 21 August 2006 - 06:51 AM

Anyway, Jeff aside(whos just pissed because a few sundays ago I proved my driving skillz>Jeff's unskilled nesss by out running him in a loaded Rx.)... I've never presonally swapped the stubs, but assume that you could. you must use the turbo stubs. Turbo stubs allow you to use the stock XT6 alxes, and ALL XT-6s, auto or MT5 have the same axles. I hope thats clear...


Turbo only not turbo or 4wd? I thought 4wders had the same stub.




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