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Cheap, simple, and cool: paddle-shift Subie


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33 replies to this topic

#26 GL-10 Turbo

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Posted 01 September 2006 - 01:28 PM

Driving a auto is like driving a go kart, you may as well not have a gearbox. It's so boring.. (time to get flammed by auto owners across the world)


^^:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

In the Forester XT (4EAT) that I drive, I found this neat feature.

There are numbers below the "D" on the shifter gate...and since I know how to use them AND rev match my downshifts (yes, it can be done), I can control my AUTOMATIC just like a four speed manual transmission car.

I haven't really tried it with my 3 speed automatic in the GL-10, but that's because I'm pulling the motor and re-sealing the engine.

#27 DaveT

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Posted 01 September 2006 - 08:05 PM

I haven't really tried it with my 3 speed automatic in the GL-10, but that's because I'm pulling the motor and re-sealing the engine.


I mostly drive my 3AT SPFI wagons by using the shifter. They almost always upshift too soon. To downshift, say, off an exit ramp, I move the lever back to 2, then tap the gas to get the RPM up, and it drops in. Much smoother than waiting until the auto stuff decides to do it and the engine at idle. I also learned how to mannually do a "kickdown" much smoother than the automatic does when you actually floor the pedal tripping the kickdown switch.

-----

Back to the original topic, electric servos probably would be tough to find with the right speed & force. Hydraulic or air powered wight be better. Maybe air would be good- they would move fast under light load, then if the synchros don't mesh immediately, the air pressure would build gradually, kind of like when you push the lever a little harder.

Dave

#28 ausubaru92

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Posted 02 September 2006 - 02:50 AM

I was actually thinking about having a torque converter on a manual. Do you think it would be hard?

How hard do you think it would be to rig up

You might only need to move the motor foward or the gear box back 4-5 inches.

It would be the best of both worlds

#29 fbh

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Posted 02 September 2006 - 04:40 AM

I'd be rather inclined to say that an auto gearbox with a clutch would be the best of both worlds - the torque converter is the hydraulic pump to power the auto gearbox, but at the same it's also a "fluid clutch", of sorts - this is a VERY rough comparison, but think of a tube - a turbine at one end, a turbine at the other - the turbine on one end is forcing fluid down the tube, forcing the other one to spin. If you hold the other turbine still (or slow it down forcefully - i.e. when the auto gearbox shifts) the torque on it increases (hence, torque converter), but it doesn't stop the turbine at the other end completely.

However, as you can imagine, if the unpowered turbine has a load put on it, it'll never spin as fast as the turbine on the other end, no matter how efficient the turbine is. This is the major drawback of the auto gearbox setup, and why it's slower than a manual - nothing to do with gears, they still use the normal cogs - it's just the torque converter.

Anyhoodles, I know this paddle-shift idea is pointless, but it's not very often you have fun doing something that does have a point, is it? :-D

At the moment I just want to do it to basically shift gears - i.e. fully depress clutch as fast as possible, move gearlever, release clutch (Can do automatic throttle release later, but I'll get to that later).

However, this "smooth shift" idea has got me thinking - if I can find out the exact gear ratios, I can dynamically calculate what speed the engine will spin at what road speed - so I can make it change gear, and keep the clutch depressed until exactly the right moment, when the engine is coming close to the speed it will be spinning when the clutch is let out, and then release the clutch - not suddenly though, sort of like a slow-ish let-out. Later on, if automatic throttle control can be managed, the throttle can be released when the shifting starts, and slowly regained as the clutch is left out.

which brings me to something else - if the synchros on the gearbox go bust it can be programmed to double-clutch :burnout: :burnout: :burnout:

Some good ideas floating around here... though I'm afraid this project will be in the planning stage for a while yet - one of my close friends is hopefully coming to visit from the other side of the world, and the obligatory tour of the country might turn out to be, well, expensive :)

Now I have a problem though - got to find some kind of high-speed pneumatic-or-otherwise actuators that can be controlled by digital electronics. If I can find those, this battle is half won!

#30 DaveT

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Posted 02 September 2006 - 08:35 PM

I was actually thinking about having a torque converter on a manual. Do you think it would be hard?


Shifting through the gears would probably be similar to shifting without using the clutch - it can be done, but you have to be very aware of rpms and speeds and shift points. I've done it when clutch linkage fell off, etc. You have to have a car without a neutral safty switch to get going - by cranking in first gear.

The biggest problem would be getting into first while stopped. 1st won't go in unless the transmission input shaft and the gears are *very* close in speed. With a torque converter replaceing a clutch, the input shaft would be at idle speed, unless you *always* downshift into 1st before stopping..:) You would need something (brake) to stall the torque converter output or a clutch in line to let it stop spinning to get 1st in at a stop.

#31 LPGsuperchargedBrumby

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Posted 02 September 2006 - 08:40 PM

At the moment I just want to do it to basically shift gears - i.e. fully
which brings me to something else - if the synchros on the gearbox go bust it can be programmed to double-clutch :burnout: :burnout: :burnout:

Now I have a problem though - got to find some kind of high-speed pneumatic-or-otherwise actuators that can be controlled by digital electronics. If I can find those, this battle is half won!



my left boot is programed to automaticly double-clutch :lol:

as for getting high speed actuators and stuff....the question really is how much are you prepared to spend?

#32 Phizinza

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Posted 02 September 2006 - 09:09 PM

There are numbers below the "D" on the shifter gate...and since I know how to use them AND rev match my downshifts (yes, it can be done), I can control my AUTOMATIC just like a four speed manual transmission car.

It appears you have missed one of my other posts on why I don't like that idea.

Each to their own, if you like autos, enjoy. I just don't like people telling me there better then manuals or telling me I should have one. I like driving manuals, and I hate driving autos. So my choice is manual.
I don't mind sequetial shifters. But the only car I have driven with them was a complete pain it the rear end as it took at least a second after hitting the paddle before the car would start to change gear... And that second was a random happening (sometimes shorter, sometimes longer.)
Plus I love clutches. Gives me more control over the car. I don't like to be driven, I like to drive

#33 daeron

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Posted 02 September 2006 - 10:20 PM

i agree with phizinza. not only that, but its a three speed versus a five speed!! that, and i hate thinking about all the weight of my TC spinning up every time i hit my gas....

#34 ausubaru92

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Posted 03 September 2006 - 03:39 AM

Good point DaveT, but if i were to have a torque converter with a manual box, i would have it as well as a clutch.
I would also like the torque converter to be able to be locked, so i can have 100% power.

I just think it would be cool to be able to inch through traffic like an auto, and then change gears like a manual one im goin.

But I will keep dreaming cos i dont have the money/resources to do it.:rolleyes:




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