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Problems with 1992 Loyal Wagon


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11 replies to this topic

#1 mksubaru

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Posted 02 September 2006 - 10:35 PM

I'm looking at buying this wagon and have a few questions about some problems that it has. First I should give you some history that the current owner has told me. This car has overheated 2 times and after the second time the owner parked the car and it has been sitting for about 1 year. The owner has a friend that was mechanicly inclined, tried to get it running, and was unable to do so. It still won't start. It will crank and start for about 1 second and die. So, first if anyone has any suggestions on what to look for so I can get this car started , I would greatly appreciate it. Second if anyone can tell me all the problems that I can have due to the overheating. If I am unable to get the car started and the owner will sell the car to me for $50-$100 should I even consider this? Or should I run from this as fast as I can? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks

#2 [HTi]Johnson

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Posted 02 September 2006 - 10:43 PM

I'm looking at buying this wagon and have a few questions about some problems that it has. First I should give you some history that the current owner has told me. This car has overheated 2 times and after the second time the owner parked the car and it has been sitting for about 1 year. The owner has a friend that was mechanicly inclined, tried to get it running, and was unable to do so. It still won't start. It will crank and start for about 1 second and die. So, first if anyone has any suggestions on what to look for so I can get this car started , I would greatly appreciate it. Second if anyone can tell me all the problems that I can have due to the overheating. If I am unable to get the car started and the owner will sell the car to me for $50-$100 should I even consider this? Or should I run from this as fast as I can? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks


Well how bad and long did it over heat for? What's the mileage? If it's a straight nice looking car with low miles, you could pick up another engine for it pretty cheap. If it is 4wd you can probably get more money by parting it out.

What most likely happened is the heads are warped and/or the headgaskets are toasted.

#3 NorthWet

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Posted 02 September 2006 - 10:45 PM

First, what does the oil look like? Might be hard to tell if water got into the oil a year ago... but it still might show some "milkshake" look of water-coolant emulsion indicating a blown headgasket.

Biggest issue with an overheat is a blown headgasket. The blocks seldom if ever crack, the head on this one is very unlikely to crack.

The overheating issue may have just been due to a stuck thermostat or a dying radiator.

Regarding starting, try using some carb cleaner or starting fluid and see if you can keep it running (admittedly a little difficult with the SPFI intake system, but should be able to spray it in a pcv or brake booster hose).

#4 mksubaru

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Posted 03 September 2006 - 05:49 PM

First, what does the oil look like? Might be hard to tell if water got into the oil a year ago... but it still might show some "milkshake" look of water-coolant emulsion indicating a blown headgasket.

Biggest issue with an overheat is a blown headgasket. The blocks seldom if ever crack, the head on this one is very unlikely to crack.

The overheating issue may have just been due to a stuck thermostat or a dying radiator.

Regarding starting, try using some carb cleaner or starting fluid and see if you can keep it running (admittedly a little difficult with the SPFI intake system, but should be able to spray it in a pcv or brake booster hose).


:-\ Thanks for the reply. The oil looks black, but does not look like any coolent is in there. The biggest problem right now is getting the car to start. I took off the fuel filter and checked with a friend that the fuel pump was working. I removed the air intake in the SPFI. My friend and I tryed to start the car 20+ times. The car will start for about 1 second and then die. We put fuel directly into the SPFI TB intake and then the put the gas to the floor and it would act like it was flooded and then start and rev to about 4k and then stall. How expensive is it to replace or rebuild the SPFI TB and all the solenoids and other computer controlled devices that control the combustion? Are there any known problem areas with the SPFI that I can trouble shoot. Thanks for any help you can provide.

#5 Bucky92

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Posted 03 September 2006 - 07:12 PM

I have another throttle body for the SPFI if you need it..but here is a small thought....the cars been sitting for a year??? think about bad gas and/or water in the gas.

#6 mksubaru

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Posted 04 September 2006 - 09:48 AM

I have another throttle body for the SPFI if you need it..but here is a small thought....the cars been sitting for a year??? think about bad gas and/or water in the gas.


Even if the gas was bad, the car should start and run poorly. Does anyone know if the passengerside t-belt was off if it would run for a second and die. When it does start for a second it smokes a ton. The smoke is not black and smells of fuel. Could the ECU have a problem and make the car die immediately? Any help would be appreciated.

#7 msteel

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Posted 04 September 2006 - 09:56 AM

Does anyone know if the passengerside t-belt was off if it would run for a second and die. When it does start for a second it smokes a ton. The smoke is not black and smells of fuel. Could the ECU have a problem and make the car die immediately? Any help would be appreciated.


Once when I changed my timing belts the driver side jumped a tooth. On the Loyale that's the side that runs the distrubutor. It would act like it wanted to start but was very rough and never would stay long if at all after I stopped cranking. It would certainly be worth checking the timing.

#8 Cougar

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Posted 04 September 2006 - 12:46 PM

From your description it sounds like the SPFI control unit is shutting the ignition system down for some reason. There may also be a problem with the ignition switch in the 'RUN' position causing this trouble. To see if that is so I would suggest you get a test light and place the probe on the minus side of the coil and ground. The light should see the ignition pulses when running or stay lit when it is not running.

Another possibility is the ignition relay. Check pins 29, 41 and 49 of the SPFI control unit to see if power is getting to those wires. If those points are ok then the trouble may be within the control unit.

#9 mksubaru

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Posted 04 September 2006 - 05:49 PM

From your description it sounds like the SPFI control unit is shutting the ignition system down for some reason. There may also be a problem with the ignition switch in the 'RUN' position causing this trouble. To see if that is so I would suggest you get a test light and place the probe on the minus side of the coil and ground. The light should see the ignition pulses when running or stay lit when it is not running.

Another possibility is the ignition relay. Check pins 29, 41 and 49 of the SPFI control unit to see if power is getting to those wires. If those points are ok then the trouble may be within the control unit.

Can you tell me where the SPFI control unit and ignition relay are located? I don't own this car and it is 30 miles away from where I live. I have not decided if I am going to buy this car due to all of the possible problems that it could have and the very big problem of not starting. Do any members of USBM live on the western slope of Colorado?

#10 St Nickolas

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Posted 04 September 2006 - 06:02 PM

:-\ We put fuel directly into the SPFI TB intake and then the put the gas to the floor and it would act like it was flooded and then start and rev to about 4k and then stall.


Hmmmm.....You've removed the intake when trying to get it running? You need the intake on it and sealed up from the Air flow meter to the throttlebody or the engine computer will think there is no air going into the motor, and hence not put any gas to it.

Nick

#11 mksubaru

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Posted 04 September 2006 - 06:23 PM

Hmmmm.....You've removed the intake when trying to get it running? You need the intake on it and sealed up from the Air flow meter to the throttlebody or the engine computer will think there is no air going into the motor, and hence not put any gas to it.

Nick


The first day I was looking at this car, all of the intake hose and such was not installed. So I put it back on the TB and tried to start the car about 10+ times and the car would only rev to about 1.5k at most and stall. The next day I went back with another friend and we removed the intake to try start the car that way with the same results. I would like to see if I can get this car to start before I buy it. Or I most likely will not pursue this. I was hoping that it would be a simple fix. Where are the fuses in the engine compartment? And are there any fuses that protect the ECU or other fuses that should be looked at that would cause this type of problem (not starting)? Any help would be appreciated.

Matthew

#12 WoodsWagon

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Posted 04 September 2006 - 07:53 PM

Take a water bottle, like a 20 0z one. Fill it with gas. take off the intake boot at the throttle body. Poke a hole in the screw on lid of the bottle, and squirt a bit of gas down the throat. Have the friend crank it and work the throttle. Keep it running for a bit by squirting gas down it's throat. Fuel pumps can gum up from sitting. Tanks can be empty from sitting. Throw a few gallons into the tank to test. The gauge may not be accurate.




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