Jump to content


Welcome to Ultimate Subaru Message Board, my lurker friend!

Welcome to Ultimate Subaru Message Board, an unparalleled Subaru community full of the greatest Subaru gurus and modders on the planet! We offer technical information and discussion about all things Subaru, the best and most popular all wheel drive vehicles ever created.

We offer all this information for free to everyone, even lurkers like you! All we ask in return is that you sign up and give back some of what you get out - without our awesome registered users none of this would be possible! Plus, you get way more great stuff as a member! Lurk to lose, participate to WIN*!
  • Say hello and join the conversation
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get automatic updates
  • Get your own profile and make new friends
  • Classifieds with all sorts of Subaru goodies
  • Photo hosting in our gallery
  • Meet other cool people with cool cars
Seriously, what are you waiting for? Make your life more fulfilling and join today! You and your Subaru won't regret it, we guarantee** it.

* The joy of participation and being generally awesome constitutes winning
** Not an actual guarantee, but seriously, you probably won't regret it!

Serving the Subaru Community since May 18th, 1998!

Guest Message by DevFuse
 

Photo
- - - - -

4WD conversion???


  • Please log in to reply
26 replies to this topic

#1 Bucky92

Bucky92

    Drive Fast, Take Chances

  • Members
  • 3,664 posts
  • New Milford

Posted 19 September 2006 - 06:23 PM

So If I wanted to turn Bucky into a Dual Range 4WD wagon..what all parts would I need...have a great lead on a doner.. Would it just be the tranny,rear diff,shifter,rear drive shaft and axles?? would I need anything else??
Thanks in Advance

#2 crazy D

crazy D

    Certified Subaru Nut

  • Members
  • 898 posts
  • Reno

Posted 19 September 2006 - 06:43 PM

So If I wanted to turn Bucky into a Dual Range 4WD wagon..what all parts would I need...have a great lead on a doner.. Would it just be the tranny,rear diff,shifter,rear drive shaft and axles?? would I need anything else??
Thanks in Advance


i dont kno if its the same for Ea82's but im pretty sure u will need a 4wd gas tank because the rear diff wont fit because the tank is flat and the 4wd tanks almost rap around the diff..but yup that should do it

#3 Qman

Qman

    Happiness is... no lag!!

  • Moderator
  • 11,119 posts
  • Sumner

Posted 19 September 2006 - 06:57 PM

All EA82's use the same tank.

Yes, trans and crossmember, driveshaft, rear diff, axleshafts, rear hubs and brakes, rear shocks. Now the swap is actually pretty easy. You just disconnect the brakes lines and driveshaft and remove the whole rear sub frame. Something like 16 bolts I believe and it will be sitting on the ground. The electrics will need to be added for the trans. Change the shifter and it should be ready to go.

Now all of this depends on how easy the bolts come out. Considerring your location it may be a bigger challenge to get the bolts out than it will be to do the swap. You will want to also swap the front axleshafts and struts(4wd is heavier duty than 2wd).

Have fun

#4 NorthWet

NorthWet

    Eeyore Incarnate

  • Members
  • 5,039 posts
  • Bremerton, WA

Posted 19 September 2006 - 07:40 PM

You also need to mount the driveshaft center bearing carrier. Can't remember what I have read, but I think that the mount bolts/holes are not present, though where they go is marked by dimpled flats in the floor pan. Also may be an issue with mount bolts for the rear diff "subframe": Might also need to drill/mount bolts for it.

#5 Numbchux

Numbchux

    EJ conversion addict

  • Members
  • 5,991 posts
  • Duluth, MN

Posted 19 September 2006 - 10:57 PM

shocks are the same. and as far as I've been able to tell, front axles were the same. in fact, I've heard that the FWD shafts were the heavier duty ones....or had better quality control, or something.

anyway, the rear diff hanger/mustache bar is quite easy to mount. just drill, and tap. there are even little dimples on the framerail were they need to go. just look on the donor car where they need to go, and then look on yours, you'll see it right away.h

the center carrier is the hard part. there are little plates welded to the driveshaft tunnel on 4WD car that the center carrier bolts to, these plates are just not there on a FWD car. there's nothing to drill and tap into at all. currently, I've got the front half of the driveshaft hanging from the linkage to hold the fluid in, and am driving with the center diff locked (RX tranny) until I can afford a custom driveshaft. another option is to just weld the center bearing bracket directly to the driveshaft tunnel, but if you do that, you can't drop the tranny without pulling the engine. or, make you're own bracket to bolt it to.

QMan's exactly right about the rear subframe. it all comes out as one peice, just disconnect the brake lines, and a couple clamps on the fuel lines (don't need to actually disconnect the lines, but they're clamped to the subframe in a couple places, don't do what I did and have the whole thing hanging by the lines before I realized what was happening!)

anyway, you need the tranny, linkage, and this (except yours should have brakes on it):
Posted Image

oh, and it's 14 bolts.....hehe

#6 GeneralDisorder

GeneralDisorder

    Elite Master of the Subaru

  • Members
  • 20,280 posts
  • Portland

Posted 19 September 2006 - 11:20 PM

Center carrier isn't that hard. Took me about an hour to fab some simple brackets out of some scrap I had. Basically I just used a jack stand, and some wood shims to put the carrier where I wanted it, bent some scrap metal to the right shape (3 lb hammer, anvil, etc), and welded it to the floor. Forgive the nasty welds - the floorpan sheet is thin, and I had to weld peice-meal to keep from setting the insulation and carpeting on fire. That and my welder is out of gas, so had to use flux-core. The carrier mount doesn't have to be anything special - there are no forces at play on the mount other than the weight of the ends of the shaft. And it doesn't need to be perfectly centered either (it's a CV joint). Really this isn't rocket science.

Oh - and you can't weld the carrier to the tunnel - it's plastic.

Posted Image

GD

#7 monstaru

monstaru

    wow, relevance....

  • Members
  • 4,401 posts
  • OlyWa

Posted 20 September 2006 - 07:09 AM

it is actually relatively simple connie.just do it. you will enjoy the new advantage this winter for sure.:grin:

#8 grossgary

grossgary

    Elite Master of the Subaru

  • Members
  • 19,800 posts
  • WV

Posted 20 September 2006 - 08:32 AM

i think you'll want the 4WD flywheel as well. i know there are two different flywheels for EA82...it's either FWD/4WD thing or a Turbo/Non-turbo thing. I think it's FWD/4WD though, so snag that with the trans.

if you go dual range you might want the center console so the interior bits fit right with the handles?

since noone brought it up i guess they all know that yours is a manual already and not an auto? if it was an auto conversion as well you'd need center console goodies, pedal cluster and some wiring tricks to get the reverse lights working properly.

mr. radon over at www.xt6.net converted a FWD Automatic to a 4WD Manual and took lots of pictures with mad details and helpful information. might be worth having a look at his thread. i thought his carrier bearing mounting boss was there, he only needed to drill. but that may be XT6 specific only. either way it might be helpful.

good luck!

#9 Numbchux

Numbchux

    EJ conversion addict

  • Members
  • 5,991 posts
  • Duluth, MN

Posted 20 September 2006 - 01:19 PM

can't weld the carrier itself, but the bracket, you can. That's how MorganM did it on his old lifted wagon (which I had for most of this last spring). and the clutch started failing, and I don't have an engine hoist....

my loyale was a FWD 3AT -> RX D/R 4WD conversion, among other things...

#10 GeneralDisorder

GeneralDisorder

    Elite Master of the Subaru

  • Members
  • 20,280 posts
  • Portland

Posted 20 September 2006 - 02:56 PM

can't weld the carrier itself, but the bracket, you can. That's how MorganM did it on his old lifted wagon (which I had for most of this last spring). and the clutch started failing, and I don't have an engine hoist....

my loyale was a FWD 3AT -> RX D/R 4WD conversion, among other things...


Wouldn't have worked for me - EA81, so the bracket won't fit. Besides, making some small brackets is easier than drilling out the spot welds on the donor.

GD

#11 Bucky92

Bucky92

    Drive Fast, Take Chances

  • Members
  • 3,664 posts
  • New Milford

Posted 20 September 2006 - 03:20 PM

You guys are scaring me here:-\ People who know me know that I am Anal about Bucky..and the thought of cutting/welding/this and that is scaring me. Maybe I should just wait for a good 4WD one to come along instead of converting my baby. As some of you know I can be easily intimidated cause Bucky is all I have. He is such a good car.:-\ :-\ :-\ what to do what to do what to do??

#12 GeneralDisorder

GeneralDisorder

    Elite Master of the Subaru

  • Members
  • 20,280 posts
  • Portland

Posted 20 September 2006 - 03:43 PM

Shouldn't be any cutting involved, and the only welding will be the carrier bearing, and it's pretty minor. But you *could* also make a single peice driveshaft like many of the EA81 crowd have done. But welding a little bracket in place is cheaper than a $150 for a new driveshaft.

Really it's not as bad as we make it sound, but it's not something I would sugest to anyone that doesn't have another transportation source. The car will be out of commision for a couple weeks probably. There's always hang-ups, and such - waiting for parts, trips to the junk yard, etc. I could easily do one in a couple days if I had all the parts, and didn't have to work, and really worked full time on the job, but that's not the usual way it works. Usually it's a couple weekends.

GD

#13 daeron

daeron

    Cunning Linguist

  • Members
  • 3,600 posts
  • West Palm Beach

Posted 20 September 2006 - 03:51 PM

BUT it is certainly within your grasp to do, as a job. you would simply need to find someone to weld the small bracket needed. Drilling and tapping is a cinch, but anyone doing the weld could certainly do that, too, and if you can find someone to do this reasonably then i would say to go for it.

The single piece driveshaft is (apparently) also an option, if its within the realm of budget.. if you cant find a friend to do the weld, it may be less expensive, too.. would there be any safety or reliability drawbacks in the one piece driveshaft?

its a big job to retrofit something along these lines, and the realistic scope of that is what is causing the disclaimers regarding alternative transportation, and the possibility of a month long job.. its obviously going to decomission the car for some time, so you'll need to be able to cope with that, but if youre talking about the swap in the first place, then something tells me youve already accepted that..

you seem very attached to your car. i think you want the 4wd as much as a gift to him as anything else. If he really is that good a specimen, and that important to you, then swap it. maybe not tomorrow, but plan on it.

its building your own car out of parts from fuji heavy industries, ltd. and its FUN.:banana:

#14 Numbchux

Numbchux

    EJ conversion addict

  • Members
  • 5,991 posts
  • Duluth, MN

Posted 20 September 2006 - 06:52 PM

I'm going the one-peice driveshaft route on mine. a local shop quoted me $80 to do it. if you do it this way, there is zero cutting and welding. just drill/tap 4 holes in the back. other than that, every bolt/stud/nut is already on the car.

I would highly recommend it. it really isn't that bad, and I think if you've got all the parts ready, 2 weeks is a very generous timeframe. you'll probably want another set of hands for the rear subframe however, and at least 2 sets of jackstands...

#15 WoodsWagon

WoodsWagon

    Formerly 91Loyale

  • Members
  • 3,945 posts
  • NH

Posted 21 September 2006 - 12:03 AM

You could put the rear subframe and diff in in a weekend, bleed your breaks, and drive it. Wait to swap the tranny untill you have someone lined up to weld the carrier bearing mount in. Make sure your tank has the dent in it for the diff before starting.

2 weekends. One for the rear subframe, One for the tranny and driveshaft. Get good with a centerpunch, drill, and tap.

#16 Numbchux

Numbchux

    EJ conversion addict

  • Members
  • 5,991 posts
  • Duluth, MN

Posted 21 September 2006 - 01:27 AM

You could put the rear subframe and diff in in a weekend, bleed your breaks, and drive it. Wait to swap the tranny untill you have someone lined up to weld the carrier bearing mount in. Make sure your tank has the dent in it for the diff before starting.

2 weekends. One for the rear subframe, One for the tranny and driveshaft. Get good with a centerpunch, drill, and tap.


gas tanks are the same. no need for a swap

also, don't need a center punch. there are already little 'divots' where the holes need to be drilled. you can't miss, really!


but yea...that sounds like an awesome plan. definately doable!

#17 daeron

daeron

    Cunning Linguist

  • Members
  • 3,600 posts
  • West Palm Beach

Posted 21 September 2006 - 02:54 AM

You could put the rear subframe and diff in in a weekend, bleed your breaks, and drive it. Wait to swap the tranny untill you have someone lined up to weld the carrier bearing mount in. Make sure your tank has the dent in it for the diff before starting.

2 weekends. One for the rear subframe, One for the tranny and driveshaft. Get good with a centerpunch, drill, and tap.


+1.

it doesnt sound as insurmountable now, does it?

there ARE gremlins that make things go wrong, but this suggestion makes it two isolated jobs, and there should be literally no difference in the vehicle from changing the rear axle around.. so its a surgical sorta thing.

#18 subeman90

subeman90

    Soobologist

  • Moderator
  • 2,786 posts
  • Akron PA

Posted 21 September 2006 - 05:23 AM

I was thinking the 2 weekend thing too. Also you could do the interior work during the week after work etc. for switching consoles and the small crap like that.

#19 Bucky92

Bucky92

    Drive Fast, Take Chances

  • Members
  • 3,664 posts
  • New Milford

Posted 21 September 2006 - 08:42 AM

I think I am going to pass on all of this...to much ..and its my only car so any glitches etc and I am screwed. Maybe someday I will have enough money to just buy a 4WD one.
As for being very attached to my car...just ask Matt,Dave,Melis,Paul..etc..obsessed not just attached:grin:

#20 daeron

daeron

    Cunning Linguist

  • Members
  • 3,600 posts
  • West Palm Beach

Posted 21 September 2006 - 05:56 PM

we know youre obsessed, thats why we gave you the idea to do it over two weekends.

planning, and patience, plain and simple, is the ONLY way to avoid any "unpredictable snags" that come up during a swap like this. the two weekend idea makes that ideal.

my soob is my only vehicle too, but the only thing holding me back from a fivespeed swap is money. that, and i have a question of needing to get to work on my Zcar anyhow.. the soob was always just supposed to be a temporary ride anyhow, or an alternative to help keep mileage low on the datsun when i finished it. i want the fivespeed desparately, too.. it makes economy difference, and it makes every mile so much more enjoyable to me... and i deliver pizzas full time, so we are talkin about 100 miles a day, city driving... I would rather operate a clutch through gridlock then operate my 3AT when suddenly a short path opens up in front of my car....

#21 75subie

75subie

    I`m sold on Subaru

  • Members
  • 3,908 posts
  • Walden

Posted 21 September 2006 - 06:34 PM

Connie,
offer this guy $350 if it doesn`t sell, and have Rory fix the rust :D
http://cgi.ebay.com/...1QQcmdZViewItem

#22 Bucky92

Bucky92

    Drive Fast, Take Chances

  • Members
  • 3,664 posts
  • New Milford

Posted 21 September 2006 - 06:54 PM

Connie,
offer this guy $350 if it doesn`t sell, and have Rory fix the rust :D
http://cgi.ebay.com/...1QQcmdZViewItem


I saw that one Jon..and I know exactly where it is ( thats my home turf ya know)..but where am I supposed to come up with $350?? Plus I dont have that "feeling" about the car like I did when I saw Bucky and the coupe. I talked to Rory today and he assures me a 4WD swap is easy and he can probably do it complete in a weekend with the proper tools..I just can't bring myself to it..I like my 35-40 mpg..plus I can't even afford $100 right now to put a new stereo in Buck ( Yeah I finally found out it was the stereo and not an electrical gremlin) I will just try to get a new set of snow treads for the front again ..3 years on the old ones so its about time...OH!! and the count down is on...less then 2000 miles till he turns over the 200K mark

#23 75subie

75subie

    I`m sold on Subaru

  • Members
  • 3,908 posts
  • Walden

Posted 21 September 2006 - 06:57 PM

sorry, didn`t know:confused:

#24 Bucky92

Bucky92

    Drive Fast, Take Chances

  • Members
  • 3,664 posts
  • New Milford

Posted 21 September 2006 - 07:05 PM

sorry, didn`t know:confused:


Its OK Jon :grin:

#25 Numbchux

Numbchux

    EJ conversion addict

  • Members
  • 5,991 posts
  • Duluth, MN

Posted 22 September 2006 - 12:58 AM

I think I am going to pass on all of this...to much ..and its my only car so any glitches etc and I am screwed. Maybe someday I will have enough money to just buy a 4WD one.
As for being very attached to my car...just ask Matt,Dave,Melis,Paul..etc..obsessed not just attached:grin:


you're missing out ;)




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users