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FAN: belt -vs- electric


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23 replies to this topic

#1 trooperjeep

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Posted 09 November 2003 - 10:18 AM

Hi All,

I have a 92 Loyale, auto, 4WD, that tends to run very cold. I have replaced the thermostat with a OEM 195' and flushed the radiator system out twice.

The radiator has 2 fans...
1 belt driven fan that runs constantly
1 electric fan (not sure how/when it runs)

QUESTION:
I'm thinking the belt driven fan is cooling the engine off too much, since it's always spinning. I guess it's internal clutch is shot.

If I remove the belt driven fan, will the electric fan take over and keep the engine cool enough?

How is the electric fan set up?

Is it automatic or just used when the AC is on?

:cornfuzz:
T.J.

#2 MaroonDuneDoom

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Posted 09 November 2003 - 12:14 PM

my expierience is that the mechanical fans only come on auto's. it is this way because the radiator also has to cool the trany fluid or something LIKE that. i broke the sensor for my electric fan on my 88gl 4wd manual. i replaced it with the stock mechanical fan from an auto. it now sounds JUST like a turbo screamin down the road. i'm gettin ready to install dual electric fans so as to free up that ten or so horses that the mech. fan robs.

i HIGHLY reccommend looking up an old post of mine titled "wiring tips for dual electric fans" just search for dual electric fans. you should find it and includes a whole bunch of stuff to steer you in the right direction.

ditch the mech. fan ASAP
good luck:wave:

#3 PoorManzImpreza

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Posted 09 November 2003 - 12:21 PM

I thought dual fans (one mech one electric) only came on cars with AC? My car came with both fans and it is a 5 speed, but it has AC.. I've been running with only the electric fan for about a year now, lent my mechanical fan to a bud who had an electric fan failure and his car is an automatic with no AC so he only had the electric fan..

#4 beauregaardhooligan

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Posted 09 November 2003 - 12:30 PM

TJ, you should check the temp with a thermometer to be sure your sending unit and gauge are working right.

#5 Snowman

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Posted 09 November 2003 - 05:17 PM

I'm actually running 1 mech. and 1 electric fan on my car, which has no AC and is a manual tranny. I have no problems like you describe. During the winter, it sometimes takes a while to reach operating temperature, but it always runs in the normal range. For the time being, I'm going to keep the mech. fan on because I think it's worth the couple horsepower it uses in order to keep the engine temperature stable when running hard.

So no, I don't think the fan is at fault. More likely the thermostat is stuck open or something.

#6 trooperjeep

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Posted 09 November 2003 - 09:43 PM

Can't be the thermostat, I just put a new one in.

Where should the guage read? Mine will only climb up to 3/4 towards "hot" when parked and ideling for a long time. However, when I drive, it always goes down to 1/4 near "cold".
:confused:

Now that's it's 34 deg F. outside, the car runs even colder!
The heater blows very little warm air at all.

A few weeks ago, I posted this problem about air in the heater core. The fix was to flush the heater core (forwards and backwards) to get all the air out. I did this and had no prpblems. Now that it's cold out, I can hear air bubbles in the heater core again and there is very little heat.
:banghead:

I have checked the system for leaks but can find none.
What's up with that?

Also... If I yank the mechanical fan, will I overheat the engine?
Will the electric fan automaticly take over if the engine gets too hot?
:confused:


T.J.

#7 beauregaardhooligan

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Posted 09 November 2003 - 09:54 PM

Just because the thermostat is new doesn't mean it's good.
What is the temp. rating?
Does it have the jiggle pin facing the right direction?
You say you can't find any leaks. Is it losing coolant?
You may need to bleed the air by loosening a heater hose or the thermostat housing and the retightening.

#8 trooperjeep

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Posted 09 November 2003 - 10:01 PM

The new thermostats temp rating is 195 deg F
Which direction should the jiggle pin be facing?

Thanks!

T.J.

#9 TomRhere

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Posted 10 November 2003 - 05:31 AM

Put many a new T-stat in a vehicle, only to later remove it 'cause it was bad. These things happen.
Both of my BRATs run at dead center on the temp gauge, and both have only the electric fan. I removed the mechanical one from the '82. This BRAT also had AC which has been removed. You will need to locate the wiring going the the electric fans motor. You will see where the control relay wires kinda T's into the harness. Un-plug the relay wiring, and put the connectors for the fan wiring back together. Now your electric fan will run as a non-ACed car would.
Would check all of your hoses, and the radiator for signs of a pin-hole leak. These leaks are small enough, that you won't always see them, but they will leave traces of the water/anti-freeze solution in the form of some crusty deposits.
As for filling the system, I fill the radiator until it stops giving major bubbles of air. Then start engine with cap off, letting it warm up. Add more coolant as needed after the T-stat has opened. You want to have your heater set on max heat when doing this, also.
Thinking the little jiggler valve on the T-stat should be at the rear, but not 100% on that. Don't remember how I have either of mine at the moment.

#10 Meeky Moose

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Posted 10 November 2003 - 10:55 AM

my 86' turbo wagon 5-speed came with both fans, the mechanical fan was removed when the 2 core radiator was put in, cause it interfered. so now it just runs with the electric fan.. never have to turn it on unless i'm sittin in traffic for a very long time..

and yes t-stats can be bad outa the box, just went through that with my hatch. bad t-stat, replaced with one i knew was good, and fixed the problem..

#11 trooperjeep

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Posted 10 November 2003 - 10:12 PM

I like Tom's idea about removing the belt driven fan and using just the electric.

Since my in a 92 Loyale, will trick to... " locate the wiring going the the electric fans motor. You will see where the control relay wires kinda T's into the harness. Un-plug the relay wiring, and put the connectors for the fan wiring back together. Now your electric fan will run as a non-ACed car would" ...work on MY car?

Thanks again group for all your help!

T.J.

#12 MaroonDuneDoom

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Posted 10 November 2003 - 10:15 PM

Since my in a 92 Loyale, will trick to... " locate the wiring going the the electric fans motor. You will see where the control relay wires kinda T's into the harness. Un-plug the relay wiring, and put the connectors for the fan wiring back together. Now your electric fan will run as a non-ACed car would" ...work on MY car?


could you clarify your terminology?

thanks

#13 trooperjeep

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Posted 10 November 2003 - 10:18 PM

Sorry...

I wanted to know if Tom's idea to remove the belt driven fan and change the connector/relay for the existing electric fan (so it would work automaticly) work on a 92 loyale. Is the wiring similar?

T.J.

#14 trooperjeep

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Posted 10 November 2003 - 11:28 PM

As per Tom's suggestion...

I looked for the wiring going the electric fans motor. I found it but cannot trace it back as the wires pass into the uni-body cavity.

Also, I cannot find where the control relay wires T's into the harness.

Any suggestions?

T.J.

#15 Snowman

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Posted 10 November 2003 - 11:49 PM

Why not just re-wire from scratch? That way it would be easy to include a manual control switch as well.

Just connect a fused hot wire, either constantly hot or from the ignition on position, to the fan. Take the ground wire from the fan and connect it to the thermoswitch and to a toggle switch on the dash. Then connect the thermoswitch and the toggle switch to grounds, and you're good to go.

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#16 MaroonDuneDoom

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Posted 10 November 2003 - 11:53 PM

snowman, excellent diagram/idea. how ould i go about wiring so that i can have it run by thermo. or w/a switch. not just turning the fan off through the thermo.

maybe i am way off here. in your diagram, if the switch was turned to off, would the fan still turn from the thermo sensor?

#17 TomRhere

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Posted 10 November 2003 - 11:59 PM

Using Snowman's diagram will allow the thermoswitch to run the fan as it normally would, turning fan on/off at xxx* temperature.
Flipping the toggle switch, lets you turn the fan on/off as you wish. But off will still be under the control off the thermoswitch, if the engine should be at it's "on" temperature setting.

#18 Snowman

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Posted 11 November 2003 - 12:00 AM

In that diagram, which is how it is on my car, the thermoswitch activates the fan regardless of what position the dash switch is in. The dash switch is added so that you can turn on the fan ahead of time if you think the engine might get too warm. I have it that way because in my opinion, the stock thermoswitch activates the fan at too high of a temperature.

#19 trooperjeep

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Posted 11 November 2003 - 07:42 AM

Thanks guys! Great info.

Question:
Dose the electric fan on a 92 Loyale really have a thermo switch on it, or is it "always on" when the AC is running?

Thanks again!

T.J.

#20 MaroonDuneDoom

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Posted 11 November 2003 - 01:15 PM

thanks tom, snowman.

that is exactly what i was trying to ask. i've got plans to go to napa and buy two thermo switches, new t-stat and hit up the yard for another fan.

#21 PoorManzImpreza

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Posted 11 November 2003 - 07:26 PM

the electric fan is temperature controlled when ac is off and always on when ac is on

#22 trooperjeep

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Posted 11 November 2003 - 07:33 PM

PoorManzImpreza said:

"the electric fan is temperature controlled when ac is off and always on when ac is on"

Dose that mean the electric fan will automaticly take over if the belt fan fails (or is removed) ?

:brow:
T.J.

#23 trooperjeep

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Posted 11 November 2003 - 09:19 PM

:cornfuzz:

#24 Snowman

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Posted 12 November 2003 - 12:56 AM

it should




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