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EA82 Cam case o-ring pics, and hypothesis on TOD.
Posted 24 September 2006 - 11:22 PM
Now I'm about 95% sure this o-ring is original to the car. Head gaskets had the Subaru logo on them so were either original or replaced with dealer new parts. But they definately looked original, and none of the bolts looked touched to me. None of the usual "mechanic's been here" droppings that I could find....
This leads to an interesting question - exactly when did they realize that a "normal" o-ring wasn't good enough and switch to the metal impregnated form we all see from the dealer today? The new ones I got from Lithia Subaru were definately rubber-over-metal style.
Which leads me to wonder how many people out there have TOD they simply will never get rid of without replacing these?
Was there a recall at some point? A service bulletin perhaps?
This sedan I have was meticulously maintained by an old man - he wrote EVERYTHING down in the manual - even circled the original brand of spark plugs that came with the car from the dealership...... yeah, clearly a nutball, but I have to admit this is the best running carbed EA82 I've seen with 230,000 on it. Never ticked any major amount for me in the last 20,000 I've had it, and all evidence so far sugests the slight tick I had to be gone with the new case o-rings.....
What say ye?
*edit* I should probably mention this isn't the first time I've found non-metal rings. I replaced what appeared to be original HG's on an 87 Carbed engine about a month ago, and found the same plain rubber rings in it. So if those are to be beleived, the change happened after 87 sometime.
Posted 25 September 2006 - 12:10 AM
Anyone here have a good standing relationship with an ancient Subaru tech at a dealer that might be able to shed some light on this?
Thinking about it, I'm 99% sure that the cam cover o-rings on my '88 DL were just plain rubber ones. I had to replace one because it was dumping (literally) a stream of oil out. I replaced it with a plain rubber one, and just took the pieces of the old one in to match. It was in a few pieces, but I'm quite sure I'd remember if it had metal somewhere in it (and wouldn't have replaced it with a plain rubber one).
Who has found metal rings? Or, are the metal ones holding up well enough that very few people have had to replace them?
Posted 25 September 2006 - 12:40 AM
Picked up a bunch (8?) of rubber-over-metals at the dealer a while ago. Hadn't seen anybody else list them.
Posted 25 September 2006 - 01:43 AM
Posted 25 September 2006 - 01:51 AM
Okay so, my 86 gl sedan, hydraulic lifters started tapping after I drove the car for a while, kinda off and on; now they're tapping continuously. Could that be from rubber o-rings?
Yes - definately. The picture you see is from an 86 sedan in fact. Could also be oil-pump mickey-mouse o-ring gasket, or also dirty lifters (in my opinion, that's usually not the case). Usually it's from air being sucked into the lifters from somewhere. Mostly this o-ring on the cam tower, and the oil-pump gasket.
And check your oil level to make sure it's full. Quickest way to noisy lifters is an empty oil pan
That one in the picture is HARD - like petrified hard. There's nothing rubber about it after 20 years in a 190 degree engine.
I would highly recommend replacing them, and the oil-pump gaskets. It's inexpensive (the parts anyway), and the labor isn't too bad. Gives you a chance to inspect a lot of things down there in the timing belt areas.
Posted 25 September 2006 - 02:21 AM
Posted 25 September 2006 - 03:21 AM
Just start removing things. You will need intake gaskets, cam case o-rings (there's two of them - one on each cam case), and RTV for the cam cases. Oh - and assembly lube to hold the rockers in place when you install the cams. DONT use grease - it's not oil soluble, and will clog the lifters. Leave you timing belt covers off, remove the air injection system, and replace some seals.... good times, good times.
Posted 25 September 2006 - 03:40 AM
Posted 25 September 2006 - 09:42 AM
with all the effort to remove the cams i'd replace all the HLA's myself. new rebuilt units are only $5 a piece from mitpah engineering.
the 87 and up EA82, EA82T and ER27 motors i've disassembled had the metal o-ring variety. never done any older than that....i don't think.
Posted 25 September 2006 - 03:21 PM
There is another thread here attempting to doc changes.. this would be a decent fact to remember.
I am still getting no replies about ecu parts... its frustrating and enlightening all the time with this range of ea82 years. They did indeed change things as time went along, all while possibly looking the same from a distance.I have even argued until actual photographs, with opinions that they are all the same. This place sets it straight, I am lovin it.
oh, the "tod" stuff... My 87 went though many oil changes, with different brands. It was quite casual about it, even through the seasons. humid wetaher was only thing that set it off, regardless of temperature. My 93 knows it has different oil, and can't be down more than .25 quart. It is the only time my 93 does it.I wondered if the actual surfaces to lube are different and like to reject more, stubbornly from an 87 to a 93. I would swear for the same compression numbers, my 93 is by far a beefier little engine that could. I am assuming for the time it is the tight vacuumed spfi vs the bigger carb i had on the 87. Hard telling without compression testing both.
Posted 25 September 2006 - 10:04 PM
As to you 93 having more power - sure. They probably made some changes over the years to improve valve springs, and it might even have a different cam profile.
With the Weber on my 86 though, it goes very well. For being low geared, and 4WD, it moves with plenty of quickness. It was horribly slow with the original Hitachi.
Posted 03 November 2006 - 05:16 PM
My '92 Loyale had pure rubber o-rings in it when I pulled the engine apart.
I asked at the Subaru dealership when they changed things, and apparently that was a change after the end of the EA82 production, according to one guy. Not sure how true that is or not, but mine definitely had pure rubber.
Posted 03 November 2006 - 05:20 PM
Posted 03 November 2006 - 05:23 PM
Unless the metal had all rusted away. There was definitely no metal in the o-rings when they came out, and they were (as expected) rock hard & brittle.
Posted 03 November 2006 - 05:39 PM
Can you see the fuji logo on the old HG's?
Posted 03 November 2006 - 05:50 PM
I didn't pull the heads.
Well heck - you're no fun then
Posted 03 November 2006 - 06:36 PM
Posted 13 January 2013 - 07:10 AM
XT6's definitely all have the metal orings.
One XT6 engine many years ago had rubber only orings and I got it knowing it had been apart. Was surprised since they are well known on many Subaru boards and accustomed to old school Subaru's. I asked and he said he wasn't thinking or something ambiguous like that, a mistake.
If there's one or a very few cases of a rubber oring in a later model like a Loyale I would anticipate it was replaced at one point or the motor swapped. actually it looks common for even Subaru folks to simply install regular orings....LOL (which I don't recommend):
The difference between a metal reinforced oring and an old brittle rubber oring isn't huge, I can see not noticing. The old metal reinforced orings can be "sucked in" or deformed like a rubber oring as well, maybe just the rubber part is deformed but it's deformed nonetheless. For those two reasons, it seems easy to loose the distinction between the different orings over time, particularly for folks that have seen differing amounts of both styles.
Edited by grossgary, 13 January 2013 - 07:39 AM.
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