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Guest Message by DevFuse
 

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Why dont you guys take I.S. to the next level?


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27 replies to this topic

#1 MorganM

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Posted 19 October 2006 - 05:35 PM

I know a lot of yall are so keen on independent suspension. However it's been your limiting factor in suspension lifts. Let the folks at RPM in Minnesota be your muse in taking Subarus to the next level in offroading. I called and talked to Mike about how they do it. I emplor the leaders of this offroad community to contact these people, talk to them about what they do, how they do it, figure out how to do it on Subarus, and actually do it (not just talk about it)

http://www.pirate4x4...ad.php?t=518007

All the trackers in the photos are IFS and steel diffs (either Calmini anvil or Stick Grand vit, or homemade 7.5) with a toyota CV conversion that a guy in our club makes. The toy CV conversion is about the same strength as doing a toy axle swap to a sami.

http://www.pirate4x4...=1&d=1161063980
Note: Notice the size of tires and lifts despite IFS.

http://www.rpm4x4.co...ike-tracker.htm
AXLES/DIFFERENTIALS
Front: Calmini prototype center mount Anvil front diff -Detroit locker- Custom CV shafts 40% larger and 40% longerhttp://www.rpm4x4.co...unk-tracker.htm
Front: Powertrax Lock Right
Hybrid front diff 7.5 ring gear
Pic1
, Pic 2, Pic 3

http://www.zukiworld...agencvshaft.htm
Build your own strengthend CV chafts for the front end.

I know there are strong IS systems out there. One guy even ran 4WIS on a competition rock crawler. Those are not practical applications for people with Subarus. Let's face it; if you could afford those you wouldn't be driving a Subaru. What RPM is doing is practical and doable for the weekend warrior on a budget.

Now lets fantisize a bit about if someone actually did this with a Subaru. Couple it with the accomplisments others have achieved with a subframe lift and a divorced transfercase. This would bring Subarus into the realm of 36" tires, 4:1 or 6:1 low range, and lockers front/rear all without solid axles.

I've heard it here for years... "if only we had real offroad upgrades or aftermarket support to take Subarus to the next level." Sorry but they aren't going to do it. YOU have to do it... you CAN do it!

My friend Archemitis said it best.... "rage it!"

#2 Scott in Bellingham

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Posted 19 October 2006 - 06:18 PM

thanks Morgan

good stuff :cool:

#3 Phizinza

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Posted 19 October 2006 - 07:26 PM

http://www.zukiworld...agencvshaft.htm
Build your own strengthend CV chafts for the front end.

That's a brillant idea. Can't see why I didn't think of it. Of cause it would be harder on a Subaru because of the diff stubs. But...

I guess you could cut the inner cup up and weld it to the "new" driveshaft cup?

I've always looked at the yota IFS Hilux (Tacoma?) front driveshafts and wondered how they get that much angle without destroying the CV's.. Is it just because they are bigger?

Welcome back for however long you stay Morgan

#4 bushbasher

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Posted 19 October 2006 - 08:58 PM

It will happen eventually, but so far I havent seen anybody put the money and time into making a crazy subaru that those guys put into those trackers.

If I make custom I.S. I wont be spending money to stick the axles in subaru hubs with undersized brakes, struts and short trailing arms, nor would I be doing it without putting a tcase in and trashing the tiny stock diffs.

Spend money just on axles, and you are still restricted by gearing and diff strength, and the geometry limits of the stock suspension. Strut suspension will only go so far before the geometry gets all whack, same with the trailing arms in the back. The further the trailing arm droops, the more anti-squat you have. At over 6" of droop rear anti-squat is ridiculously high. Basically, to get the subaru to the next level, it requires a complete redesign of the whole package, not just bigger axles.

#5 Numbchux

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Posted 19 October 2006 - 09:58 PM

a buddy of mine mentioned that there's a company making CV shafts for the front of lifted fullsize chevy's, that have a slip joint in the middle, much like the front driveshaft of a jeep. this way the joints themselves wouldn't have to make up the difference.

I've got a few ideas for my next subaru. but I have to graduate from college, get a full time job, and a garage of my own, first.

#6 MorganM

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Posted 20 October 2006 - 08:15 AM

it requires a complete redesign of the whole package, not just bigger axles.


My point exactly BB and I've been saying it for years. Stronger CVs is only one part of the puzzle. Other parts are longer axles and control arms. The guys at RPM are doing more than just CV upgrades; look at the hybrid housing for the front diff.

Anyone at all interested in doing some awsome, and affordable, upgrades to IS should email or call those guys at RPM. They will talk your ears off about how they did what. These guys really know their stuff and have learned a lot through trial and error. Use their knowledge to move forward!

#7 carfreak85

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Posted 20 October 2006 - 01:28 PM

Morgan, why don't you try some of this stuff? Someone has to be the guinea pig, right? I would try it but I don't have the money, time, garage or frankly the interest in extreme offroading that others on this board do. I like to go fast during the week and a little muddy on the weekends, so my little 3" lift is perfect and I don't see the need for all that stuff on my rig.

#8 monstaru

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Posted 20 October 2006 - 04:18 PM

i have been researching this for a while now.longer travel struts,rebuilt crossmember with hoops at the top and cvs that are extendable like some driveshafts.of course custom control arms.these are all in the works for the brat.i have already built a prototype for the struts,but not long enough for what i want to achieve.it is all coming around slowly.you know as well as i do morgan that money plays a huge part in all of it.when another rig is less modified and more capable,people tend to gravitate towards it.whatever rig it may be.just my 2 cents.:headbang:

#9 Numbchux

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Posted 21 October 2006 - 02:21 AM

Morgan, why don't you try some of this stuff?


cause his subaru wasn't worth the effort (I know, I had it for almost 6 months...and the rot had taken over!), and he replaced it with something with solid axles.

#10 Phizinza

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Posted 21 October 2006 - 02:41 AM

If you done like a 8" lift or something, do you think it would be possible (not to hard) to put in custom double wish bone on the front?

#11 Scott in Bellingham

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Posted 23 October 2006 - 10:18 AM

Im in the process of putting Legacy running gear under my 8" lifted t-case Turbo short wagon , anyone have any problems with legacy axles and such?

#12 ShawnW

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Posted 23 October 2006 - 05:45 PM

Im in the process of putting Legacy running gear under my 8" lifted t-case Turbo short wagon , anyone have any problems with legacy axles and such?


Legacy axle can handle alot more angle than the ea stuff can.

#13 Soutthpaw

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Posted 24 October 2006 - 01:11 AM

That's a brillant idea. Can't see why I didn't think of it. Of cause it would be harder on a Subaru because of the diff stubs. But...

I guess you could cut the inner cup up and weld it to the "new" driveshaft cup?

I've always looked at the yota IFS Hilux (Tacoma?) front driveshafts and wondered how they get that much angle without destroying the CV's.. Is it just because they are bigger?

Welcome back for however long you stay Morgan


They destroy the CV Joints, blow out the wheel bearings and tear up the rack and pinions on a regular basis.... From being a tech at a 4x4 shop I can tell you they eat the IFS up. even the Humvee's were having problems with the CV joints due to the angles

#14 Sweet82

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Posted 24 October 2006 - 09:45 AM

The Toyotas Eat CV joints!

That is their biggest/only weakness.

Some folks are having them specially treated
(heat/freeze) to make them stronger.

The are still breaking these treated ones too!:burnout:

#15 Numbchux

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Posted 24 October 2006 - 09:52 PM

Definitely. I must admit that I'm a closet Toyota man. That being said, I can attest to the fact that solid axles are the only thing to run off-road (as far as 'Yotas go).


in the long run. for the cost, solid axles are the only way to go on anything offroad.

subarus are cheap, and suprisingly capable. but if you're going to put some money to step it up.....get solid axles, whether you're putting them under the soob, or getting something that already has them.

#16 Adam N.D.J.

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Posted 25 October 2006 - 09:14 PM

There are some people out there that are actually working on this. Being stuck on Med-Hold with the ARMY in Georgia, I have had a lot of free time. SO, all my free time has been spent on the internet researching, and working in Autocad with a whole new IS design for my Brat. This will be a whole new, completely built from scratch suspension and frame, from bumper to bumper. With all the strongest stuff you can get. Supra rear diffs (capable of handling over 750HP), Cornay joints, Titan spindles, blahblahblahblah. Lots of stuff oging into this. I have pretty much 6 months of nothing but work going into this. I can tell you one thing, the initial is going to cost one heck of a pretty penny. But I think that once I have the ball rolling, and a prototype on the ground then all subsequent models will cost expodentially less. The nice thing about the design that I have is that you will be able to roll in a vehicle, put it on the lift, pull off the stock suspension, and sub frames, then roll the new stuff under and drop the body down on top of it. I don't know if any of you have seen the pictures of my last oops on my Brat, but it is a new, stronger, lighter version of whats under it now. ( I do need to do something as I have just a bare body sitting in storage at home now).. Be warned though, this is really only for the true hard core off roaders, out there, not really for the just every now and then, splash in a puddle behind the wallyworld kind of people. More like the Moad, Rubicon, Evans Creek kind of thing. Here is a little sneak peak for ya, as there is still about another 6 months to a year before we can expect to see a working model:

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#17 MorganM

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Posted 06 November 2006 - 04:10 PM

Has anyone CALLED or EMAILED the RPM club?????? I didn't even post half of what they told me over the phone. I specifically asked him if it would be ok if ppl from here called or emailed them and he said that would be fine.

They do more than use stronger CV axles here..... CONTACT THEM!!!!!

#18 quebechatch

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Posted 06 November 2006 - 08:47 PM

Posted ImageHi everybody. I used to break c.v. shaft all the time when I first lifted my hatch, but I have realized that it was more because of other components being too weak and bending like the mustache bar and front caster rods that made the c.v. shaft over extend or working in critical angles. I have since made a stronger diff support and redesign the front suspension using ea 82 longer front c.v.shaft and I have not broken another c.v. since. on top of it the skid plates on the front suspension arm have made the car much more capable in deep ruths. Now I wish I could find another hatch body to be able to keep on improving the system.

#19 Phizinza

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Posted 06 November 2006 - 10:33 PM

Has anyone CALLED or EMAILED the RPM club?????? I didn't even post half of what they told me over the phone. I specifically asked him if it would be ok if ppl from here called or emailed them and he said that would be fine.

They do more than use stronger CV axles here..... CONTACT THEM!!!!!

From what I gather no one has, or wants to spend, that money. We'd all just prefer to complain about the problems with Subie suspension.
I'm happy with my setup, normal 2" body lift, longer rear shocks. But I would like some longer front struts so I don't have to run front sturt lift blocks. But the problem I have here is there isn't any local offroad spot that my Subie can't go.. :(

#20 Rollie715

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Posted 06 November 2006 - 11:58 PM

Scott and I have discussed this subject many times. Between us we've been involved with all sorts of different vehicles and been a part of various groups of enthusiasts. Including motorcycles, 3-wheelers, quads, dunebuggies, volkswagon bugs, racing lawnmowers, gocarts, jeeps, Model A's, muscle cars etc.

A common thread within all of them seems to be the desire to make modifications or improvements, so that what we have is better then it was before or sometimes better then what the other guy has. We dream about what improvements we could make if only we had the time, skill, or money. Some of the reward within the hobby, is that through our own efforts, we reach a higher level then previously. Usually, as soon as we make one improvement, we are already looking forward to the next.

An interesting observation, is that many people when they finally reach what many consider to be the ultimate modified rig, they quickly lose interest park their creation and move onto other challenging interests.

I'm thinking it is the journey and not the destination that brings the most satisfaction. Thanks for listening to me ramble.

Rollie

(now if I can just figure out how to get those dana 70 axles under my soob)
:banana: :banana: :banana: zzz


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#21 Phizinza

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Posted 07 November 2006 - 01:34 AM

An interesting observation, is that many people when they finally reach what many consider to be the ultimate modified rig, they quickly lose interest park their creation and move onto other challenging interests.

I'm thinking it is the journey and not the destination that brings the most satisfaction. Thanks for listening to me ramble.

I agree 100%

#22 MorganM

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Posted 07 November 2006 - 10:08 AM

From what I gather no one has, or wants to spend, that money. We'd all just prefer to complain about the problems with Subie suspension.
I'm happy with my setup, normal 2" body lift, longer rear shocks. But I would like some longer front struts so I don't have to run front sturt lift blocks. But the problem I have here is there isn't any local offroad spot that my Subie can't go.. :(


That's why I made this thread. These guys do it CHEAP! I'm talking junkyard replacment parts for common wear items and simple machining for custom parts. This isn't rocket science or hardcore rock buggy stuff.

Rollie715: this is a means to progress through that journey!

quebechatch: you are on the right path; call them! I swear you will get some sweet ideas, compounded what you've already done, I think you could take your hatch to the next level

rage it!:headbang:

#23 970subaru

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Posted 07 November 2006 - 11:27 AM

so anyone found a source for hummer portal boxes at an ok price?:brow:
sure would kill a lot of birds with one stone.

#24 quebechatch

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Posted 07 November 2006 - 07:16 PM

here's an idea. I don't know if someone on the board ever tought of this but here it goes: what about using the rear differential and halfshaft from a datsun 510 year 68 to 73 and adapt it to the rear of your subie. It is the same diff. as subaru but shafts are U joints type and extendable and I bet that the stub axle are stronger too since they were design to take 100% of the torque instead of 50% for a 4wd subie. it is something really hard to find for me here in quebec, but for you guys in the west there's still lots of those cars kicking about.

#25 quebechatch

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Posted 07 November 2006 - 07:41 PM

this link might help some of you
http://www.dimequart....tierranet.com/




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