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33 replies to this topic

#1 mikeshoup

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Posted 26 October 2006 - 10:49 PM

I noticed the other day, there were three wikipedia articles for the same car. I proposed on the articles, a merger.

Basically, I proposed to merge the Subaru Loyale and Subaru GL article into the Subaru Leone article. Since they are all essentially the same car, this makes sense.

In the Subaru Leone article, I want to worry less about specifications, and get more the three distinct generations right, and some of the options available as well as the years the different models were introduced.

If you're an avid Wikipedia user, feel free to comment on the discussion page. Otherwise, post here your thoughts.

I would also like a description of the different generations, and any credible sources you have for some of this stuff.

#2 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 26 October 2006 - 10:54 PM

The problem with that, is the EA81's were refered to as "Leone" as well. Just not in the US.

Everything from 1980 till the Legacy was called the Leone pretty much. They made our "EA82" body using all sorts of engines - I've seen pics of stock setups with fuel injected EA71's in EA82 body's. You just can't really use the Leone name to descriminate anything other than "it's probably from the 1980's"

Gotta dig the EA81 dual-carb Leone RX:

Posted Image

GD

#3 jeffast

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Posted 26 October 2006 - 10:58 PM

The problem with that, is the EA81's were refered to as "Leone" as well. Just not in the US.

Everything from 1980 till the Legacy was called the Leone pretty much. They made our "EA82" body using all sorts of engines - I've seen pics of stock setups with fuel injected EA71's in EA82 body's. You just can't really use the Leone name to descriminate anything other than "it's probably from the 1980's"

Gotta dig the EA81 dual-carb Leone RX:

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GD

just curiouse you wouldn't happen to have any pics of the fuel inject ea71 would you? curosity compells

#4 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 26 October 2006 - 11:00 PM

It was posted on here a while back.... I think from like holland or some weird place where fuel is slightly less expensive than breast augmentation. They said it got incredible mileage - like up in the 40's.

GD

#5 jeffast

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Posted 26 October 2006 - 11:00 PM

It was posted on here a while back.... I think from like holland or some weird place where fuel is slightly less expensive than breast augmentation. They said it got incredible mileage - like up in the 40's.

GD

:lol:

#6 jeffast

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Posted 26 October 2006 - 11:01 PM

It was posted on here a while back.... I think from like holland or some weird place where fuel is slightly less expensive than breast augmentation. They said it got incredible mileage - like up in the 40's.

GD

wow i wish i had one of those show those justy owners whose who:lol:

#7 mikeshoup

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Posted 26 October 2006 - 11:02 PM

GD: That's actually the point of merging it all into the Leone Article.

The US was the only country never too see a car badged "Leone", however, its the same model line. You'll notice, the Loyale article tries to cover the EA82 generation, and the GL article covers both the gen2 and EA82 generation, and the Leone article tries to cover everything. Since the Leone is basically everything, it should cover everything.

Unless, someone can come up with a good way of splitting and naming the Leone into their respective generations.

The subaru global website has a good history timeline on these cars. Does a pretty good job of describing when the cars were released. Also, a Leone article would not cover a BRAT/Brumby, a 1000, an FF-1, an Alcyone/XT, etc. Just what was branded the Leone, and what it came to the US as.

#8 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 26 October 2006 - 11:11 PM

I think it should be split according to body style, with each section listing the availible engines around the world. "GL" is meaningless of course since there were DL's, GLF's, GFT's, and other such strange beasts. Leone sadly doesn't work well either as it was used for too many different vehicles with too many different drivetrains. It's just to broad I think. Better to just split it along the model year's where changes started. Make one page for the 1980 body style change, a page for the 85 change, and another for the 89/90 change (Legacy). Then in each page note when each model went out of production around the world. The 1980 body style was still in production till 94 for the Brat - it was popular in isreal still.....

I have some evidence that some *very* early 85's had Leone badging in the US. Either that or this was a huge mistake at the factory:

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GD

#9 mikeshoup

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Posted 26 October 2006 - 11:23 PM

The biggest problem with making articles at the splits, what would you call them?

I think the idea of a disambiguation page for the Subaru Leone would be good, but I can't think of anything to call the subsequent articles.

#10 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 26 October 2006 - 11:28 PM

How about just "Subaru - Pre-Legacy (Leone, Loyale, FF1, blah, blah)", and then have that include the various subsection links. That's how most of the world would view it I think.

Or propose a central Subaru page (labeled "SUBARU" :rolleyes:), and have all the various model lines including the Legacy and newer linked from it.

GD

#11 Durania

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Posted 26 October 2006 - 11:35 PM

It was posted on here a while back.... I think from like holland or some weird place where fuel is slightly less expensive than breast augmentation. They said it got incredible mileage - like up in the 40's.

GD


I pray for the day I see breast augmentation at a drive-thru. Makes that burritar twice as good.

#12 mikeshoup

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Posted 26 October 2006 - 11:37 PM

You mean like Subaru?

Subaru - Pre-Legacy unfortunately would not really follow the wikipedia naming convention format. I'm still rather insisten on using the Subaru Leone name, because the Leone is what the majority of the world sees these cars as.

As I said previously, I don't think the article should cover all pre-legacy stuff. As similar as many of the cars are to the Leone, they are still different. The BRATs, XTs, 360s, 1000s, FF-1s, etc, they are not Leones, even though they are similar.

From what I can tell, the Leone line has always been sort of a middle of the road line. Its pretty much always been a Coupe, Sedan and Wagon. The (only?) exception to this is the Gen 2 hatchback.

#13 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 26 October 2006 - 11:56 PM

The Brat (gen 2) is a Leone - totally and completely. It shares all the same parts. It's really just a 4WD coupe with a bed instead of a roof and trunk. It even used the same doors as the coupe and hatch. It's a leone body as much as the hatch, wagon, sedan and coupe are. You can't exclude it based solely on the bed. Heck - it was even imported as a "car" due to the seats in the bed.

GD

#14 mikeshoup

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Posted 27 October 2006 - 12:04 AM

I'll agree there. Ther BRAT probably should be included.

Now what I'm finding odd, http://www.subaru-gl...om/history.html makes no mention of the BRAT. That is the Subaru Global history website.

#15 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 27 October 2006 - 12:08 AM

Click on 75-79 and it will show the Brat release in 1977.

GD

#16 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 27 October 2006 - 12:10 AM

"It was based on the Leone 4WD....."

DOH - so really the Leone applies all the way back to at least 1975, and maybe earlier. Yikes that's a lot of years.

Looks like they replaced the FF-1 with the Leone coupe in 1971.

Officially according to subaru the Leone ran from 71 to 94.

GD

#17 mikeshoup

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Posted 27 October 2006 - 12:11 AM

Where all was the BRAT released? US, Australia, NZ, and?

#18 mikeshoup

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Posted 27 October 2006 - 12:11 AM

"It was based on the Leone 4WD....."

DOH - so really the Leone applies all the way back to at least 1975, and maybe earlier. Yikes that's a lot of years.

GD

They have the Leone back to 1971 as a replacement to the FF-1

#19 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 27 October 2006 - 12:17 AM

And our 1980 body style change was actually done in 77, we just didn't get it till 80.

Brat was the MV pickup in great brittian, and the Brumby in Aus. It went all over the place tho - Isreal was the second larges market for them, and they had 2WD versions with longer bed's that were extended 2 feet past the rear wheels. They were popular for delivery vehicles I guess. GB got a 2WD version called the "Shifter" also.

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#20 mikeshoup

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Posted 27 October 2006 - 12:22 AM

Japan ever see the BRAT?

Also, according to that timeline, Japan saw our EA82 style in 1981. We didn't see it until 1985!

#21 jeffast

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Posted 27 October 2006 - 12:32 AM

where are you reading this?

#22 mikeshoup

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Posted 27 October 2006 - 12:35 AM

http://www.subaru-gl...om/history.html

Posted it a little earlier in the thread. Its a timeline.

#23 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 27 October 2006 - 12:38 AM

Actually - Japan may not have had the Brat. Or if they did it was only later in the game.

They had to come to arizona to get one for their museum in Tokyo IIRC. :rolleyes:

GD

#24 kayakertom

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Posted 27 October 2006 - 04:01 AM

I remember back in the 70's when the Japanese cars started appearing in large amounts and how "Lost in Translation" the ads and owner manuals were - lots of confusion that was very amusing. No wonder the confusion continues today. I think Leone might come from this language jumble: Le + One.

#25 daeron

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Posted 27 October 2006 - 08:08 AM

I remember back in the 70's when the Japanese cars started appearing in large amounts and how "Lost in Translation" the ads and owner manuals were - lots of confusion that was very amusing. No wonder the confusion continues today. I think Leone might come from this language jumble: Le + One.



try reading a factory service manual from the 70s!!! the FSMs for the Datsun Z-cars were all very closely based on the original 240Z FSM that must have been written in 1970. The technical translations are wonderfully obscure, and combine that with the fact that it seems like they were translated from Japanese to English English (as opposed to american) by a Frenchman, and you get a whole mess of crud to wade through!! by the 80s they had gotten some better people in to get things clearer.. but those old FSMs (and my uncle has some roadster ones back to the 60's.. yikes..) were really nigh on impossible.




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