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96 Sub L Auto Trans issue torque bind


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19 replies to this topic

#1 shimonmor

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Posted 31 October 2006 - 01:29 AM

I'm posting this for a friend who is having a problem with his 96 Subaru L wagon. Here is the problem:

Just changed the trans fluid and filter. I can't remember if this all started before or after the service. It seems it was after. While backing up it feels like a brake is sticking or I am in four wheel low and something is binding. It is worse when backing and turning. It also happens when going forward and turning sharp. Never feel a problem when just going fwd straight. It really makes no difference if the car has been running for a while or 1st thing in the morning. It also seems like some days it is better than others.
Any ideas?

Thanks.

#2 xrturbo

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Posted 31 October 2006 - 06:24 AM

just do a search for torque bind, everyone has covered this thouroghly and you will see many people have different opinions on the subject. if he wants a temp fix to just drive it normally, just pop in the fwd fuse under the hood.

#3 grossgary

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Posted 31 October 2006 - 07:47 AM

it's all over the forum here - search for "torque bind".
under advanced search click on "search titles" and "new generation forum" and you'll get all you care to read about.

look down to the lower left of this page right now, no clicky anywhere, just look then finish reading this sentence......did you glance down at the lower left? it shows similar threads to yours down there...now EDIT your thread (this one right here) title to include "torque bind" and similar matching threads will show up at the bottom left of this page you're looking at right now. go to the first post you made on this thread and edit the title - add "torque bind". if i was a moderator i'd do it for you. of course....just use the search button and you get more results.

#4 porcupine73

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Posted 31 October 2006 - 12:28 PM

Just curious what brand and type ATF was put in?

#5 Steve455

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Posted 31 October 2006 - 06:38 PM

My 96 outback was doing the same thing (torque bind) i changed the fluid and no more torquebind but now the trans is slipping and on its way out.

#6 shimonmor

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Posted 01 November 2006 - 10:30 PM

Thanks for the replies. Did a search and found a lot of very useful posts on torque bind. I always appreciate the help I get at this forum. Top notch!

#7 STRANGELUCK65

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Posted 05 November 2006 - 10:37 AM

Thanks for the replies. Did a search and found a lot of very useful posts on torque bind. I always appreciate the help I get at this forum. Top notch!

here is a tip from 2 senior master subaru mechanics that i will pass on to you guys.use ford motorcraft additive friction modifier,it costs less than $5.on the back of the bottle has printed "FORD INTERNAL REF. NO. 135454" i have used this myself and it does work.

#8 Twagoon

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Posted 06 November 2006 - 03:24 AM

I have used Trans-X limited slip diff. additive many times. Works all the time. Get the one in the tube not in the can. Just pour it in the transmission dip stick tube and drive around for a few minutes then do some figure 8's. It's probably very similar to the stuff STRANGELUCK65 was talking about but it may be easier to come by for you. We always bought ours at Carquest but any parts house should have it.

#9 nipper

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Posted 06 November 2006 - 07:26 PM

I have used Trans-X limited slip diff. additive many times. Works all the time. Get the one in the tube not in the can. Just pour it in the transmission dip stick tube and drive around for a few minutes then do some figure 8's. It's probably very similar to the stuff STRANGELUCK65 was talking about but it may be easier to come by for you. We always bought ours at Carquest but any parts house should have it.


Again i ask why are people using this to fix torquebind. Torque bind is in the clutch pack of the automatic transmission. Limited slip diff fluid is gear oil, not tranny fluid. They are seperate animals. If i caught anyone putting something meant for a differential in my auto tranny fluid they would be in in a pile of trouble form me.

nipper

#10 porcupine73

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Posted 06 November 2006 - 07:34 PM

I think the limited slip additive is just friction modifier, I don't think it actually contains any gear oil.

I used the trans-x in an old '88 lincoln that was on it's way out and it did work but seemed like more of a last ditch effort.

#11 nipper

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Posted 06 November 2006 - 07:37 PM

There are a few last ditch efforst one can do for an auto tranny, but they are usually reserved for trading in the car or selling it and making someone elses problem.
If its a car you like, i would not recomend it.

nipper

#12 STRANGELUCK65

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Posted 06 November 2006 - 08:04 PM

Again i ask why are people using this to fix torquebind. Torque bind is in the clutch pack of the automatic transmission. Limited slip diff fluid is gear oil, not tranny fluid. They are seperate animals. If i caught anyone putting something meant for a differential in my auto tranny fluid they would be in in a pile of trouble form me.

nipper

i thought the same thing when i was told. but sure enough it works.

#13 nipper

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Posted 06 November 2006 - 09:17 PM

Lets stop and lok how limited slip differentials work. There are two kinds, a cone clutch and a clutch pack. When the wheels are going straight, the clutches are applying an equal amount of power to both wheels. When the car is turning, the difference in wheel speeds overcomes the forces of the clutches, allowing for the differential action to happen. The clutches seperate (breakaway point) and the wheels turn at differnt speeds.
http://www.gordon-gl...rg/lsdtech.html . These clutches since they have no real modulation (they are on /off) can slam or chatter.

http://www.amsoil.co...efront/ada.aspx

(notice the DO NOT USE in automtics comment)

(more then you want to know http://www.offroader...fferentials.htm )

The additive keeps the clutches in a limited slip from galling.

Subaru clutch pack is a specially designed clutch pack with special properties that allow the clutches to slip (to a point) and transfer power without chewing themselves up. Something like this would be instant death to a normal clutch pack. ALso subaru clutch packs are always engaged, its just a matter of how much application of the clutch pack there is to determine torque split. What the additive does is make thing more slippery, hence modifying the original friciton formular of differential fluid. This allows for more slipping of the mechanical clutches, and also does the same for a subaru clutchpack. It seems like this would mean a reduction of power apllied to the rear wheels in a subaru. Yes this would in essence "fix" torque bind, but at a loss of power transfer.

Clutchpack failure can manifest itself in either torque bind (gummed up clutches, valves, fused clutch pack) or a loss of awd (clutch discs totally bare of material). I can see how the clutchpack at the end of thier lives can start galling, and this helping. The other thing to understand is that this stuff is also running through the entire transmission, affecting the other clutches and bands and seals. There are no internal seals (of the same kind) or valves that are in a differential. The repair for TB is 800-1000 dollars. A transmission replacement can run from 500-3500 dollars. Its an expensive gamble.

nipper

#14 sailhard

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Posted 06 November 2006 - 10:43 PM

Lets stop and lok how limited slip differentials work. There are two kinds, a cone clutch and a clutch pack. When the wheels are going straight, the clutches are applying an equal amount of power to both wheels. When the car is turning, the difference in wheel speeds overcomes the forces of the clutches, allowing for the differential action to happen. The clutches seperate (breakaway point) and the wheels turn at differnt speeds.
http://www.gordon-gl...rg/lsdtech.html . These clutches since they have no real modulation (they are on /off) can slam or chatter.

http://www.amsoil.co...efront/ada.aspx

(notice the DO NOT USE in automtics comment)

(more then you want to know http://www.offroader...fferentials.htm )

The additive keeps the clutches in a limited slip from galling.

Subaru clutch pack is a specially designed clutch pack with special properties that allow the clutches to slip (to a point) and transfer power without chewing themselves up. Something like this would be instant death to a normal clutch pack. ALso subaru clutch packs are always engaged, its just a matter of how much application of the clutch pack there is to determine torque split. What the additive does is make thing more slippery, hence modifying the original friciton formular of differential fluid. This allows for more slipping of the mechanical clutches, and also does the same for a subaru clutchpack. It seems like this would mean a reduction of power apllied to the rear wheels in a subaru. Yes this would in essence "fix" torque bind, but at a loss of power transfer.

Clutchpack failure can manifest itself in either torque bind (gummed up clutches, valves, fused clutch pack) or a loss of awd (clutch discs totally bare of material). I can see how the clutchpack at the end of thier lives can start galling, and this helping. The other thing to understand is that this stuff is also running through the entire transmission, affecting the other clutches and bands and seals. There are no internal seals (of the same kind) or valves that are in a differential. The repair for TB is 800-1000 dollars. A transmission replacement can run from 500-3500 dollars. Its an expensive gamble.

nipper



Where do you find someone to fix it for 1000 bucks? I've read everything ( yeah I know not recently) and it would be nice if someone sold the rebuilt " tranfer case unit". for my R4AXEL I'm sure I could swap it, but I don't want to rebuild mine as I have a 96 legacy L with that aluminum case with no steel insert issue as well...Auto zone sells the whole tranny rebuilt for 2500 or so...but not just the awd portion...

#15 nipper

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Posted 06 November 2006 - 10:53 PM

The dealer here in NY did mine for 860.00 (plus 50 for a tranny mount) last ocotber. I have a 1997 OBW automatic

nipper

#16 xrturbo

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Posted 07 November 2006 - 06:29 AM

wow!! i guess we are way toooooo cheap where i work, we do them for 550 with a good used back half!

#17 sailhard

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Posted 07 November 2006 - 07:57 AM

Sooooo anyone got a cheap place in MA? My dealer in peabody quoted $3k without batting an eye....And NO source for the rebuilt case?

#18 porcupine73

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Posted 07 November 2006 - 08:02 AM

Dexron ATF's already have friction modifiers in them anyway, if you don't want any friction modifiers in your ATF then you have to use type F.

#19 johnceggleston

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Posted 07 November 2006 - 09:50 AM

wow!! i guess we are way toooooo cheap where i work, we do them for 550 with a good used back half!


how do you know / find a good used back half? that is the gamble. like buying a good used tranny, not all of them are good. but at least with the clutch pack you get to look at them before you install.

#20 Twagoon

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Posted 08 November 2006 - 05:19 AM

porcupine73 is correct, it is just a friction modifier. I have seen cars run very well for 100k miles after having this done. I have never seen any problems come from it.




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