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Wow.... Land Rovers are pretty hardcore


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54 replies to this topic

#26 Andyjo

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Posted 17 December 2006 - 07:03 PM

It's not THAT steap...
Posted Image
;)

#27 WoodsWagon

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Posted 17 December 2006 - 09:28 PM

Heck, with the recovery team he had and the winch on the front, they could have dragged anything to the top. Big Whup.

BTW, I love the short wheel base defenders. I always spend extra time drooling over them while i'm in scotland and wales. Got to cruise around in a LWB one in scotland many years ago. It had the spare on the hood and everthing. Lots of torque too. Hauled a huge trailer full of fresh cut wood out of the woods and home on the roads. Disco's are POS in my opinion. One of the kids at my school had one, and it was being worked on more than it was driven, and he never even wheeled it.

#28 '05 Outback 2.5i

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Posted 18 December 2006 - 12:45 PM

Hmmm. . .
You're new here, aren't you? Ever heard of the Rubicon Trail? Did you know that a group from this board did it in Subarus? One of them was a fairly lightly modified Brat (small lift, bigger tires, a bit more power, and other odds and ends).
I think if you took a look around, you'd see lots of evidence that Subarus (particularly the older ones) are a viable off-road machine. Of course, your '05 Outback could be modified to do better, as well. Drop in a dual-range tranny, lift it a few inches, voila!


Yes, I've heard of it, and I have run it (about 12 years ago in a locked and lifted Pathfinder). It's legendary, but isn't that hard core of a trail, there are much worse out there. That being said, there are plenty of sections that I can see the possibility of it being doable for a highly modified Subaru, but several that I'd have to see to believe I guess.

you'd be under-estimating them! just like everyone else that hasn't done it. :-p


Not trying to ruffle any feathers, I just joined to take advantage of the vast knowledge, and add something if I can here or there. I'm sure Subaru's can be quite capable in low traction situations, but the approach & departure angles, ground clearance and tire size limitations seem pretty signifigant to me.

I'd love to see some Subaru's doing this kind of stuff, but find it hard to visualize:

http://media.putfile.com/tisdalecg/e
http://media.putfile.com/JPhc2/e
http://media.putfile.com/biodavehc/e

Maybe this..

http://media.putfile.com/jimmyhc1/e

But they say seeing is believeing, and until then, I'll guess it is human nature to have a hard time believing. I'll have to search around the site for some video footage of these hard core Subaru wheeling trips when I get some time.

So far this is the most difficult Subaru four wheeling video I have seen, and I didn't come aaway terribly impressed, didn't seem like anything was accomplished without alot of momentum..

http://media.putfile...arus-Wheeling/e

Looks like a great site and resource so far..

P.S. -- I'm sure you guys have seen this Australian site for off-road Subarus, but just in case some had missed it..

http://offroadsubaru...forum&Itemid=46

Oh, and Land Rover is dead, at least in this country. I wouldn't touch an LR3 or current Range Rover for serious off-road use. They are suprisingly capable thanks to the electronics, but we all know about the British and electronics...

#29 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 18 December 2006 - 04:38 PM

So far this is the most difficult Subaru four wheeling video I have seen, and I didn't come aaway terribly impressed, didn't seem like anything was accomplished without alot of momentum..

http://media.putfile...arus-Wheeling/e


If that's all you've seen, then you haven't seen much. Bunch of AUS guys with 4" lifts is all that is. There's people running around with 10 and 12 inch lifts with nissan or sammi t-case setups, etc. That video is nothing to write home about.

GD

#30 beataru

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Posted 18 December 2006 - 06:44 PM

And besides... thats not wheelin thats rompin... theres plenty of subies that HAVE been off roads, yes the kind that you crawl up not floorboard it!!! I tried to take my car,not the one in my backyard, up on a light (minimal off road) you know a bunch o rocks with ditches and oh yeah thats the word "Forest Trail" and it did it BEAUTIFULY!!!!!!! extreem wheel slipage of course.. but my roo doesnt have low!!! and not to menchin the turbo wouldnt spool so I had no torque!! but it refused to make me walk up the hill!! Thats a Loyal Loyale :horse: HAHAHAHAHAHAHA I just thought of that.... ok lame. But roos can be lifted and can make things happin!! so you say of course a highly moded subaru could do it... Well those vids all had highly modded jeeps and rovers!!! So from what you said, am a right in saying a highly modded 3 cyl Geo metro could make it up the Ruby???? I guess so! :burnout:

Now I dont want this to become a boxing match but serious soobers... take offense extreamly seriously and quickly if you dis the roos youll..... well I need some help on that one!!! I am a serious soober... but I try to know that my car is well just a car!!!! But its a subaru so its badass

#31 nipper

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Posted 18 December 2006 - 06:55 PM


Oh, and Land Rover is dead, at least in this country. I wouldn't touch an LR3 or current Range Rover for serious off-road use. They are suprisingly capable thanks to the electronics, but we all know about the British and electronics...



Except that its Ford who owns them and has gotten all the bugs out of the electrics....

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#32 nipper

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Posted 18 December 2006 - 07:17 PM






http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wptLUYIQnxg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2dyU6fe_UE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6I7nqYWM3dU

nipper












#33 beataru

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Posted 18 December 2006 - 07:28 PM






http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wptLUYIQnxg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2dyU6fe_UE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6I7nqYWM3dU

nipper

that first vid is wierd... I like it because it displays the toughness of a Roo but... I dont like it because that rig could have been once serious swamp machine.

#34 Scott in Bellingham

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Posted 18 December 2006 - 07:30 PM






http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wptLUYIQnxg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2dyU6fe_UE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6I7nqYWM3dU

nipper











That second video slideshow I reconized most of the cars from this board my old red car was even in there a few times , :brow: :brow:

#35 beataru

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Posted 18 December 2006 - 07:37 PM

I dont know but did I see my rig before it got smashed??? is that russ in my roo??? or does someone else have a whatever blue gl-10 wagon with a rack?

#36 Hodaka Rider

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Posted 18 December 2006 - 07:56 PM

[quote name=''05 Outback 2.5i]That being said' date=' there are plenty of sections that I can see the possibility of it being doable for a highly modified Subaru, but several that I'd have to see to believe I guess.[/QUOTE']

Well, like I said, a lightly modified Brat did it. I don't know all the ins and outs of the Rubicon, but there's lots of pictures around for you to see. And I see where you're coming from, too. No-one has really built a Soob for rockcrawling yet, but they do good in places like Walker Valley, Reiter's Pit, Moab (not upper Helldorado, of course) etc. I know these places are usually regarded as difficult trails in the off-road community (Detroit Trail Tour went through these with lots of carnage) and the Soobs seem to go through them OK. Again, 3-4" lift, 27"-29" tires, usually locked rear - open front.

#37 '05 Outback 2.5i

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Posted 19 December 2006 - 08:56 AM

And besides... thats not wheelin thats rompin... theres plenty of subies that HAVE been off roads, yes the kind that you crawl up not floorboard it!!! I tried to take my car,not the one in my backyard, up on a light (minimal off road) you know a bunch o rocks with ditches and oh yeah thats the word "Forest Trail" and it did it BEAUTIFULY!!!!!!! extreem wheel slipage of course.. But roos can be lifted and can make things happin!! so you say of course a highly moded subaru could do it... Well those vids all had highly modded jeeps and rovers!!! So from what you said, am a right in saying a highly modded 3 cyl Geo metro could make it up the Ruby???? I guess so! :burnout:

Now I dont want this to become a boxing match but serious soobers... take offense extreamly seriously and quickly if you dis the roos youll..... well I need some help on that one!!! I am a serious soober... but I try to know that my car is well just a car!!!! But its a subaru so its badass


You know I’m not trying to start any kind of P***ing match here, and appreciate that everyone can maintain a friendly tone. In the end we are all enthusiasts, but we all have to realize that no matter how capable or how fast our vehicles, there are vehicles that do it better. Can you make a Geo run the Rubicon, sure. Can you still call it a Geo after all the modifications necessary, well, that is open to interpretation I guess.

Know that I am not trying to disrespect anyone’s ride, I like Subaru’s, have owned a few, and currently love our ’05 Outback. But I also realize that it wasn’t built or intended as an offroad vehicle, and I don’t really think any Subaru has been (from the factory). Can it be modified to keep up with a true off road vehicle? See Geo discussion above, but sure it can, as can anything with enough time, effort or money. Can a Geo Metro be made to beat a Corvette down the Quarter mile? Sure it could… Can this car tow this camper up the hill?

http://media.putfile.com/cartrailor/e

It did, but apparently it wasn't the best idea... I think everyone can see where I am going with this though.

If that's all you've seen, then you haven't seen much. Bunch of AUS guys with 4" lifts is all that is. There's people running around with 10 and 12 inch lifts with nissan or sammi t-case setups, etc. That video is nothing to write home about. GD


I figured there are more hardcore Subaru Offroad videos out there, but I hadn’t been able to find them. But I must say, when you start talking 12” of lift, and redesigning the driveline with transfer cases from trucks, I have a hard time still calling it a Subaru, but even if you do, we have to admit that that is a heavily modified vehicle. I don’t think a 3” spring lift and 1-3” larger tires on the trucks in the videos I posted qualify for the “heavily modified” designation, even if some have thrown lockers in the axles, these are still mild modifications in comparison to 4x that lift, and reengineering the driveline with components that were not part of the original design (plus god only knows how many other modifications are required to make 12” of lift work on a car).

Except that its Ford who owns them and has gotten all the bugs out of the electrics....
nipper


Thanks for posting the video links. I’m not trying to be an A**, but I still didn’t see anything terribly difficult (though nothing ever looks as difficult on video as it does in person), and certainly nothing on par with what I had posted the Rover’s doing. As for the Ford thing, yes they own Land Rover now, and BMW owned Land Rover from 1996 until Ford Purchased them. People said the same thing about Rover Electronics and Quality under BWM leadership, but it didn’t turn out to be true, the bugs and quality conrtol issues continued on unabated.

As for the Subaru Jump video, that’s not that serious. Here is a video of some nut launching a D-90 some five to six feet in the air. I wasn’t there, but the word is the D-90 survived with only minimal damage.

http://media.putfile.com/Roverjump/e

Thanks for everyone's input, and remember this is just friendly conversation between enthusiasts..

#38 Numbchux

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Posted 19 December 2006 - 10:19 AM

[quote name=''05 Outback 2.5i]I figured there are more hardcore Subaru Offroad videos out there' date=' but I hadn’t been able to find them. But I must say, when you start talking 12” of lift, and redesigning the driveline with transfer cases from trucks, I have a hard time still calling it a Subaru, but even if you do, we have to admit that that is a heavily modified vehicle. I don’t think a 3” spring lift and 1-3” larger tires on the trucks in the videos I posted qualify for the “heavily modified” designation, even if some have thrown lockers in the axles, these are still mild modifications in comparison to 4x that lift, and reengineering the driveline with components that were not part of the original design (plus god only knows how many other modifications are required to make 12” of lift work on a car).[/QUOTE']

they're still 90% subaru. the tcase, the front driveshaft, and the wheels are the only pieces that come on something other than a subaru. some custom bumpers, steel for a lift and second engine crossmember, etc.

they're still very much a subaru. even QMan's brat (isuzu solid rear axle and divorced tcase) is very much subaru powered. DeathHatch's hatch is pushing it...with both solid axles...but engine and tranny are still subaru. None of these people are just dropping a subaru body on a truck frame or anything like that.

and, consider the cost. a subaru on 29" swampers can be easily built for $2-5k. weld up the rear end, rig up a dual handbrake setup, and it'll be virtually unstoppable (that's the setup QMan had on his brat when he went through the Rubi!). you couldn't afford most of those trucks in stock form for that. much less the upgrades for them. We build our rigs from junkyard parts and scrap steel. mixing and matching to get what we want.

and, consider the weight. I don't know what an older rover weighs. but it's hard to compete with a subaru. the small unibody design, with aluminum drivetrain, and front transaxle. a fully decked out trail rig would be hard-pressed to tip the scales at 3k lbs.

the ground clearance is like non other. the approach and departure angles aren't terribly great, but they're ok. There's a trail up here called Tailpipe alley....I went through it, and didn't touch my tailpipe on any of the dropoffs. and because they don't have solid axles, the lowest point on the drivetrain is at the hubs. I virtually never got hung up on something. always ran out of gearing.

turning circle....need I say more?


the downfalls are no AT, no aftermarket gearing/locker options, and mediocre suspension travel. But I took my lifted subarus on trail rides with jeeps and yotas with much more work done to them, and kept up quite well.

#39 bgd73

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Posted 19 December 2006 - 12:33 PM

Wow, I never realized there were so many Subaru Owners out there that thought of their vehicles as "Off-Road Capable". I joined the forum for insight with our family Outback wagon. A great car for what we own it for, and we have been very happy with it, but being an off road enthusiast for the better part of twenty years now, I can't imagine trying to "Wheel It", no many how many modifications were made. Maybe I've been in it too long, but the stuff I consider "Off roading" would be way over a Suburau's head, I'll stick to our D-90 for the wheeling...

http://www.putfile.c...90/images/15437



Love the d90.. I agree with you about the soobs. They are quite proprietary. A true offrader has many many variables- to fill in whats missing for a soob is alot to me. Staying 15-16 inch wheels for a 26 inch diameter maximized in the oem lift in the wheel wells is the best all around close to oem I have ever encountered for a sube- and they are doing that already on the newer soobs like the outback (although the older soobs clearly has more benefits--). I learned the hard way, my area is mudders everywhere (just across the street there is an old chevy with a hood line taller than me- of course in true offroading, even that chevy is absurd).
A friends IH scout years ago taught me all I need to derive an opinion. wheels can be too big for power and weight of vehicle, too small has its problems too. lift kits, power, gearing, twist, suspension, and signals invisible, locked, unlocked on and on and on. A soob is very light for large tread (try rock climbing on large tires- the car is too darn light, "correct height, too light"). I gave up on the idea, only to fill in the wells the way it sits with something bigger, and even heavier than oem (15" + steel wheels, etc). :dead: There are certain body styles I would focus on, with realistic thoughts of intense offrader, soob wagons have never been one for me. I do see the older short hatch can do some amazing things, but thats about it.

#40 Hodaka Rider

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Posted 19 December 2006 - 01:36 PM

You know I’m not trying to start any kind of P***ing match here, and appreciate that everyone can maintain a friendly tone. In the end we are all enthusiasts, but we all have to realize that no matter how capable or how fast our vehicles, there are vehicles that do it better. Can you make a Geo run the Rubicon, sure. Can you still call it a Geo after all the modifications necessary, well, that is open to interpretation I guess.
I figured there are more hardcore Subaru Offroad videos out there, but I hadn’t been able to find them. But I must say, when you start talking 12” of lift, and redesigning the driveline with transfer cases from trucks, I have a hard time still calling it a Subaru, but even if you do, we have to admit that that is a heavily modified vehicle. I don’t think a 3” spring lift and 1-3” larger tires on the trucks in the videos I posted qualify for the “heavily modified” designation, even if some have thrown lockers in the axles, these are still mild modifications in comparison to 4x that lift, and reengineering the driveline with components that were not part of the original design (plus god only knows how many other modifications are required to make 12” of lift work on a car).Thanks for everyone's input, and remember this is just friendly conversation between enthusiasts..


I totally see where you're coming from. And you're right, sometimes it's hard to separate the Bull from the real. But like I said,
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
You can see that the silver one is only mildly modded. It has a 4" lift, stock suspension, mildly warmed up stock engine, stock trans (no extra t-case), and bigger tires (I think 29"). I think it's pretty easy to still call it a Subaru.
There are videos in existance, but some 'hard-core' offroaders saw the pictures and videos and still said that there was no way the Subarus were actually at the Rubicon. Thus, the people who were there with the Subarus kind of gave up on telling people it happened. Kind of like the people who don't believe man has been in space and on the moon, despite all the evidence.
Here's a link to a whole bunch of Subaru offroad vids: http://www.loghomefamily.org/subaru/
There's also some 'real' offroad machines in there, to give you some persective. Pay particular attention to the group of vids at the bottom. this shows how well the soob can do (again, this one is all Subaru - no extra t-case, Soob power, locked rear, 4" lift, 27" tires.) in a place where even the lifted Toys were struggling.

#41 Hodaka Rider

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Posted 19 December 2006 - 01:48 PM

Another note (on the dual t-case mod). The transfer case most people use is from a Datsun/Nissan 720 pickup. Datsun/Nissan and Subaru are/were part of Fuji Heavy Industry, so basically they are staying in the same family (bit of a stretch, I know). The transmissions share the same flanges, so it's relatively straightforward. Also, I'm pretty sure that people who do SAS conversions, dual t-case setups, longarm coilover setups on their Jeeps, Toyotas, etc. still consider their vehicle to be a Jeep or Toyota.

#42 Numbchux

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Posted 19 December 2006 - 02:33 PM

Another note (on the dual t-case mod). The transfer case most people use is from a Datsun/Nissan 720 pickup. Datsun/Nissan and Subaru are/were part of Fuji Heavy Industry, so basically they are staying in the same family (bit of a stretch, I know). The transmissions share the same flanges, so it's relatively straightforward. Also, I'm pretty sure that people who do SAS conversions, dual t-case setups, longarm coilover setups on their Jeeps, Toyotas, etc. still consider their vehicle to be a Jeep or Toyota.


hey, now there's a good point. my buddy's putting a ford 8.8 from an exploder into his wrangler cause the stock d35 ate it....

#43 nipper

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Posted 05 January 2007 - 03:55 PM

There's not a Sube out there that rolls with the most extreme.
We just need to accept that there are certain things Subes don't do.

...



and even if a soobie could do that i wouldnt want too. After all we expecty our soobies to live another day


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#44 BruceyWV

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Posted 05 January 2007 - 07:31 PM

Ours still have air conditioning and more importantly, HEAT :grin:

#45 beataru

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 12:38 AM

YEAH!!! although most of our speed settings dont work, and if they do, its sometimes not enough!!! :lol:

#46 nipper

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 12:53 AM

YEAH!!! although most of our speed settings dont work, and if they do, its sometimes not enough!!! :lol:


HEY we have to make some sacrifices :banana:

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#47 GoldDiggerRoo

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 12:58 AM

and it's awful nice to be able to have a very capable off road rig for less than $2k total.

You can't knock the weight difference either, I once helped free a Disco that had sunk up in clay with freebie EA81 wagon that rode right on top of it.

#48 kingbobdole

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 03:49 AM

+1 on price...
With the cost of my car I got an extremely nice daily driver for about $1500 that will go anywhere...
4" lift, 29"s, rear LSD, and an SPFI swap was all I did...
Mine's the black 87
Posted Image
Ricks "short bus", I'm sure hes got less in it then mine... He got the car for free plus a BYB lift, late XT EA82 spider swap, 27"s on some pugs I sold him cheap.... If hes got a grand into that car I'd be surprised...

#49 daeron

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 05:00 AM

Ricks "short bus",

Rick == ???

GD? I am trying to start keeping track of actual names, here. Since mine's Shawn, I dont really bother too much.. :rolleyes: I figure one shawn is enough, and thats the Admin here :lol:

Besides, I have had a roomate named Shawn. Thats enough of THAT. "Is Shawn there?" "I *am* Shawn. You must mean the one with short hair and no glasses." "Yah..."

btw,



Some of the video is on the link posted by burtonsnowman under the "do it differently" link, but theres more to this one. I believe that yellow wagon whose owner I was inquiring about is in this video, too.. BUT I mean, its just a yellow wagon from all I can see.

#50 beataru

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 08:29 PM

HEY we have to make some sacrifices :banana:

nipper

so true so true... i guess we cant have everything......




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