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Crankshaft Timing Belt Sprockets: The Truth


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73 replies to this topic

#51 WJM

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Posted 03 January 2007 - 09:15 PM

I just took a look at the sprokets I have.

We'll see what comes in brand new tomorrow...

#52 Marck

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Posted 16 January 2007 - 07:06 PM

I just took a look at the sprokets I have.

We'll see what comes in brand new tomorrow...


Were you able to find the truth on this? I may switch back and see if I notice any difference.

#53 WJM

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Posted 17 January 2007 - 05:51 AM

I have the new ones.

I just need to get all the information gathered from the FSM, parts books/catalogs, then take some pics. That way, there is no way to screw up.

Basically, the only fool proof method is what emily stated. I'll have pics and info up soon.

#54 bgd73

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Posted 17 January 2007 - 02:56 PM

and since EA82's have been around for 20 years...most likely someone has been in there.....


I had assumed that, but no receipts..and 104k


as GD said (I can't believe I am agreeing on something) if those sprockets didn't have to change for the different ea82s, they would have been one piece cheap to replace as one piece.
My previous thread which triggered this one is simply stating the timing is different, not different sizes. The cams were doing two different things with teeth misaligned. My current EA82 is exactly aligned and the strongest runner I have had out of 3 ea82s... The reason for my previous thread and its question... Why did they misalign the teeth? I have only comclude to aid the EGR and kill the engine for japans stringent standard they shipped to the world. One side or the other mislaigned, they are both wrong from my experience, and subaru did it on purpose for reasons as crazy as an egr valve. I am certain now.... with a bit of history read abour Japans emmission standards and laws, they did not make a full running engine. the closest I have found to a complete normal is the carbed with *exactly* correct timing, (sprockets oem aligned) I am certain, because the cams are very very tight, no room for "half tooth" off one way or the other. Spfi has 10 degrees to play with and the turbos are similar.As either cam sprocket from driver to passenger is identical, they clearly got sloppy on timing, unless you find them aligned at the crank. :)

#55 grossgary

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Posted 17 January 2007 - 03:37 PM

I had assumed that, but no receipts..and 104k

few 20 year old vehicles come with receipts, or all 2 decades worth. most low mileage cars 100k 20 year old vehicles leak badly in my experience, so it wouldn't surprise me if someone messed with it before. mileage and receipts do not gaurantee that noone has ever worked on it before. i was in a 108,xxx mile EA82 last week that had leaks. (no receipts by the way). i went in there to replace everything and someone had certainly been in there before. they smeared RTV all over the face of the cam and crank seals??? that was funny.

#56 Hodaka Rider

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Posted 17 January 2007 - 03:39 PM

Wow, somebody needs to re-read everything that has been posted on this. :rolleyes:

#57 WJM

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Posted 17 January 2007 - 05:25 PM

I had assumed that, but no receipts..and 104k


as GD said (I can't believe I am agreeing on something) if those sprockets didn't have to change for the different ea82s, they would have been one piece cheap to replace as one piece.
My previous thread which triggered this one is simply stating the timing is different, not different sizes. The cams were doing two different things with teeth misaligned. My current EA82 is exactly aligned and the strongest runner I have had out of 3 ea82s... The reason for my previous thread and its question... Why did they misalign the teeth? I have only comclude to aid the EGR and kill the engine for japans stringent standard they shipped to the world. One side or the other mislaigned, they are both wrong from my experience, and subaru did it on purpose for reasons as crazy as an egr valve. I am certain now.... with a bit of history read abour Japans emmission standards and laws, they did not make a full running engine. the closest I have found to a complete normal is the carbed with *exactly* correct timing, (sprockets oem aligned) I am certain, because the cams are very very tight, no room for "half tooth" off one way or the other. Spfi has 10 degrees to play with and the turbos are similar.As either cam sprocket from driver to passenger is identical, they clearly got sloppy on timing, unless you find them aligned at the crank. :)



You just dont get it.

#58 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 17 January 2007 - 07:06 PM

as GD said (I can't believe I am agreeing on something) if those sprockets didn't have to change for the different ea82s, they would have been one piece cheap to replace as one piece.


And that's not what i said at all. Lovely. :-\

GD

#59 WJM

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Posted 17 January 2007 - 08:22 PM

and on that note:

Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image

#60 JWX

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Posted 17 January 2007 - 08:33 PM

I had assumed that, but no receipts..and 104k


as GD said (I can't believe I am agreeing on something) if those sprockets didn't have to change for the different ea82s, they would have been one piece cheap to replace as one piece.
My previous thread which triggered this one is simply stating the timing is different, not different sizes. The cams were doing two different things with teeth misaligned. My current EA82 is exactly aligned and the strongest runner I have had out of 3 ea82s... The reason for my previous thread and its question... Why did they misalign the teeth? I have only comclude to aid the EGR and kill the engine for japans stringent standard they shipped to the world. One side or the other mislaigned, they are both wrong from my experience, and subaru did it on purpose for reasons as crazy as an egr valve. I am certain now.... with a bit of history read abour Japans emmission standards and laws, they did not make a full running engine. the closest I have found to a complete normal is the carbed with *exactly* correct timing, (sprockets oem aligned) I am certain, because the cams are very very tight, no room for "half tooth" off one way or the other. Spfi has 10 degrees to play with and the turbos are similar.As either cam sprocket from driver to passenger is identical, they clearly got sloppy on timing, unless you find them aligned at the crank. :)



ok let me try this
THEY'RE NOT ALIGNED

#61 Hodaka Rider

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Posted 17 January 2007 - 10:21 PM

Thanks, WJM.
bgd73: if your teeth are in fact alligned, IT'S TIME TO FIX IT!!!:Flame:

#62 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 17 January 2007 - 10:58 PM

Allow me to clarify that for anyone that can't read parts references. That shows exactly 2 part numbers FOR ALL EA82's. There's a seperate part number for the outer sprocket with the locator pin included, but it's still the same sprocket. If you read the diagrams carefully there are all kinds of clues that tell you the sprockets are universal (except with respect to inner/outer) for carb/spfi/turbo.


Sorry BDG - you're just WRONG.

GD


#63 ccrinc

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Posted 18 January 2007 - 12:59 AM

You know, sometimes trying to over-analyze something is just a total waste of time and effort.
It was designed that way. It works that way.
I'm no engineer, but it seems to me that the fact that the 2 belts are different lengths, and the fact that the crank goes side to side to drive the rods and pistons might have something to do with it. They would only align if all pieces were equal, which they ain't.

Geez guys...lighten up. :horse:

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#64 WAWalker

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Posted 18 January 2007 - 10:15 AM

Allow me to clarify that for anyone that can't read parts references. That shows exactly 2 part numbers FOR ALL EA82's. There's a seperate part number for the outer sprocket with the locator pin included, but it's still the same sprocket. If you read the diagrams carefully there are all kinds of clues that tell you the sprockets are universal (except with respect to inner/outer) for carb/spfi/turbo.

GD


It shows 3 part #'s. All the inner most are the same. There are 2 different outter most sprockets.

PN 13023AA010 is the inner sprocket for 1985-1994
PN 13018AA000 is the outer sprocket for 1985-1987
PN 13021AA001 is the outer sprocket for 1987-1994

According to that info.

This also explains why you don't se to many outer sprockets with the dowel pins. They were only used in 85, 86, and some 87's according to the picuters.

#65 grossgary

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Posted 18 January 2007 - 12:09 PM

those parts references were confusing, maybe WJM or subyluvr can clarify? i didn't seen any references past 1990 on the one screen - why not?

#66 WAWalker

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Posted 18 January 2007 - 12:15 PM

those parts references were confusing, maybe WJM or subyluvr can clarify? i didn't seen any references past 1990 on the one screen - why not?


There is to much there to be able to look at it all on one screen, makes it confusing.

1990-1994 is right there in blue and white.

#67 grossgary

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Posted 18 January 2007 - 12:30 PM

gotcha. so the only difference in that 1985-1987 part number is the dowel pin, didn't WJM order some sprockets to verify? to finally get to the title of this thread "The Truth" we need to see that those two different part numbers are actually same, except for the dowel pin.

#68 WAWalker

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Posted 18 January 2007 - 12:36 PM

That is the only difference that can be seen at this point. One would need to have both of the outer sprokets to compair to see if there is any differance in the off set of the teeth when installed on the crank shaft.

I think we are getting somewhere.

#69 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 18 January 2007 - 01:07 PM

It just includes the dowel pin - that's the only difference. If there were other differences it would have been noted in the diagram. It's enough to see that the part numbers are the same for pre-87, and post 90 to infer that information. Plus the fact that the diagram has different pulley's labeled for turbo and non - if such a difference existed in the sprocket it would be noted. Thus we can safely assume that it doesn't matter unless you need a dowel pin.

GD

#70 WJM

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Posted 18 January 2007 - 01:08 PM

I went to order the 13018AA000...aka the 85~87 with the pin.

NOT AVALIBLE.

The part supercedes to 13021AA001.

As you can see, that is the piece for 87+ with NO pin.

If they superceded it, that means that its the same.

But either way....not avalible with the pin anymore.

I'll get some pics.

#71 WAWalker

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Posted 18 January 2007 - 01:14 PM

I went to order the 13018AA000...aka the 85~87 with the pin.

NOT AVALIBLE.

The part supercedes to 13021AA001.

As you can see, that is the piece for 87+ with NO pin.

If they superceded it, that means that its the same.

But either way....not avalible with the pin anymore.

I'll get some pics.


Was wondering if it was supperceded. I figured they would only have changed the last two or three numbers in the PN. I figured wrong.

So now we have the TRUTH. The only difference is inner and outer. Easly determined by looking at the back side of the sproket.

#72 WJM

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Posted 18 January 2007 - 03:14 PM

On the left, is the FRONT sprocket. On the right, is the REAR sprocket. Here are the pictures. Notice that the RIGHT one has a groove on the back of it. This one denotes that it goes nearest to the rear of the engine. The LEFT one does not have a groove, so therefore it goes on the front.

http://wjmrallyespor...ts/DSCF5331.JPG
http://wjmrallyespor...ts/DSCF5332.JPG

#73 Marck

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Posted 19 January 2007 - 01:53 AM

Also, to reclarify, the sprocket with the dot on the face at 5:30 is the inner one (closest to the engine). This one also has the groove on the backside to hug the crankshaft better.

I guess I will definantly be switching mine back to the way it was since it was right the first time. At least now we know the TRUTH!! :headbang:

#74 WJM

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Posted 19 January 2007 - 05:21 AM

Yep.

Oh well. Gotta switch two of mine back as well.

I guess I need to call SOA and confirm this as well.




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