Jump to content


Welcome to Ultimate Subaru Message Board, my lurker friend!

Welcome to Ultimate Subaru Message Board, an unparalleled Subaru community full of the greatest Subaru gurus and modders on the planet! We offer technical information and discussion about all things Subaru, the best and most popular all wheel drive vehicles ever created.

We offer all this information for free to everyone, even lurkers like you! All we ask in return is that you sign up and give back some of what you get out - without our awesome registered users none of this would be possible! Plus, you get way more great stuff as a member! Lurk to lose, participate to WIN*!
  • Say hello and join the conversation
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get automatic updates
  • Get your own profile and make new friends
  • Classifieds with all sorts of Subaru goodies
  • Photo hosting in our gallery
  • Meet other cool people with cool cars
Seriously, what are you waiting for? Make your life more fulfilling and join today! You and your Subaru won't regret it, we guarantee** it.

* The joy of participation and being generally awesome constitutes winning
** Not an actual guarantee, but seriously, you probably won't regret it!

Serving the Subaru Community since May 18th, 1998!

Guest Message by DevFuse
 

Photo
- - - - -

Lubricants & Additives / Myths & Reality


  • Please log in to reply
58 replies to this topic

#1 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

Loyale 2.7 Turbo

    The Mighty "BumbleBeast"

  • Members
  • 5,598 posts
  • Roatán, Honduras.

Posted 02 January 2007 - 10:04 AM

Well... at First: Happy New Year for Everyone! :)


This is About the Lubricants (Oils, Greases, etc... ) and Additives we Use on our Subies, and to Share the Experience / Results, etc... with `em.


Because some of us did have bad experiences with some Oils, Fake "Magical" Additives, etc... I think is Important to Share our Experiences and ask for Good Advice. :)


For Start: Did someone Used This:
Posted Image

Oil in a Subaru?


I am Afraid to use it, `cos the Extra Viscosity grade, and Stickin` Additives may clog the Hydro Lifters... What do you Think `bout?


in my EA82, since 1985 (When it was New) dad used the Castrol 20W-50, (We have here only Tropical climates) then we Switched to Chevron, same Grade. Then, with time we Tried other Brands, due to Avaliability facts, as Pennzoil, Valvoline, and Quaker State.

This is not to do Negative Criticism, but with Pennzoil we obtained more "Tick of Death" and the engine`s interior became more Clogged with gum & Varnish (I know that due to a Change of Oil Pan`s Gasket)

With Chevron, the "Tick" almost goes... but since 2001, we only use Motul Brand oil. (Minerally Based) that is the Brand that suggested the Honduran Dealer, (Also you can see a Subie in they Page: http://www.motul.com/ )

I know that my EA82 Oil Pump isn`t in good shape (21+ years of Work) , but have noticed this curious Behavior: when the Oil is New (Freshly Changed) the "Tick" sounds became a Li`l bit Harder, but when Oil became Older (A month of Use) the Tick is almost Gone! :confused:

Also, when I Use other Oil Brands, the "Tick" becomes Harder and stays like that untill I Change it with Motul... Why?

Thank you for Share your Experiences too. :burnout:



#2 NoahDL88

NoahDL88

    Elite Master of Cookies

  • Members
  • 4,264 posts
  • Everett, WA, USA

Posted 02 January 2007 - 11:42 AM

That seems like a really thick oil to be running in a motor, i'd stay away from it. the 25W-60 that is.

#3 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

Loyale 2.7 Turbo

    The Mighty "BumbleBeast"

  • Members
  • 5,598 posts
  • Roatán, Honduras.

Posted 02 January 2007 - 12:01 PM

I Think That, Too.



#4 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

Loyale 2.7 Turbo

    The Mighty "BumbleBeast"

  • Members
  • 5,598 posts
  • Roatán, Honduras.

Posted 02 January 2007 - 12:17 PM

Usually, some Mechanics use to Recommend / Sugest the Use of "Magical" Additives, some Compleately Refuse to Use `em... :confused: ...Some of that Additives claim to Run Engines even Without Oil! :eek: Increasin` the Slick Level of Internal Parts; We saw in a T.V. Spot, someone runnin` a Small Block V8 Engine without the Oil Pan, :-\ ... Some Treatments use PTFE (Teflon) some Don`t and say that PTFE can Ruin the Engine :confused: ...

What do you Think `bout?


One of the Top seller Brands on our Market, is QMI ( http://www.qminet.com/ or: http://nooga.com/calar/index.html ) Also Metaloil, etc...

Posted Image

What do you Think `bout? ... How was your Experience with those Special Additives?



#5 joostvdw

joostvdw

    Subaru Nut

  • Members
  • 609 posts
  • Holland

Posted 02 January 2007 - 12:36 PM

I'm currently running GTX magnatec which claims to have magnetic additives which cling to the cilinder walls and protect during cold starts... only thing I have noticed was TOD were it wasn't before :-\

so my advice on oil, stay away from additives and just use good mineral oil.

I did however tried a additive in my tranny, because it was very rough and noisy (bearing going out), 1000km later, the tranny shifts noticebly smoother but the bearing only got louder and I think I would have gotten the same result with running ATF in it...

#6 nipper

nipper

    Semi Elite Master of the

  • Members
  • 17,546 posts
  • Long Island NY

Posted 02 January 2007 - 01:03 PM

Thats such and odd viscosity, I would be afraid to use it. High Mileage oils usually have something in them to expand seals and quiet lifters. I avoid them like the plague. I have had many cars have high mileage and work just fine on what they were runing from day one, thats good enough for me.


nipper

#7 Dylan86GL10

Dylan86GL10

    USMB is life!

  • Members
  • 226 posts
  • Tidewater, VA

Posted 02 January 2007 - 04:46 PM

Don't use additives expecially PTFE teflon. The FTC has sued Slick 50 over its use and advertising. Just use a quality oil and it will have its own additive package.

#8 GeneralDisorder

GeneralDisorder

    Elite Master of the Subaru

  • Members
  • 20,280 posts
  • Portland

Posted 02 January 2007 - 09:43 PM

After doing a lot of homework on the subject, and finding lots, and lots of reasons NOT to use additives, and relatively few substantiated claims by most of them, I tend to stick with plain old oil. And as someone else pointed out - PTFE is the spawn of satan - stay away from that stuff. It was actually Dupont (the manufacturers of PTFE) that sued Slick 50. The ruling was that Slick 50 had the right to do whatever they like with the stuff. Dupont sued them for using it as an engine additive, and has publicly stated it has no recognized benefits when used in an internal combustion engine. It does show some small benefits for power and torque when used in race engines for SHORT TERM use. But it clogs oil filters, and increases wear. It's VERY bad for anything but applications where the engine will be rebuilt after each race or season.

While synthetic is clearly THE way to go for a newer, close tollerance engine, an older EA82 that burns a bit, leaks a bit, and is well broken in, it's really a waste of money.

That's not to say that a good grade of oil shouldn't be used. After a thread on here a few years ago from a member that was in the oil industry, I've been using Chevron 10w40. It's both a very high quality oil, and inexpensive (I get it by the case at Costco). Chevron owns the patents on the processes and machinery used for almost all synthetic oil production, and much of the refinery equipment in the world. They know their stuff. I don't have any troubles with lifter ticking, and my 86 sedan has 230,000 on the original engine.

They also don't sell any of this gimicky "high mileage" oil, or other strange creations. They sell oil - plain and simple.

GD

#9 mikeshoup

mikeshoup

    Ignorant

  • Members
  • 2,190 posts
  • City and County of Denver

Posted 02 January 2007 - 09:51 PM

They also don't sell any of this gimicky "high mileage" oil, or other strange creations. They sell oil - plain and simple.

Actually, Chevron sells a high mileage oil that comes in a gold bottle.

Personally, I'm with you, I usually buy just cheap cases of Chevron. I pick it up at Sam's Club on the cheap.

#10 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

Loyale 2.7 Turbo

    The Mighty "BumbleBeast"

  • Members
  • 5,598 posts
  • Roatán, Honduras.

Posted 02 January 2007 - 10:28 PM

Thanx to All replies! :) , Very Nice info. I didn´t Knew... I was about to Buy a Bottle of PTFE engine Treatment for my Tickin´ EA82, but now I Don´t! :D

Other Question, Between Petrol Based Oils, and Minerally Based Oils, Which one is Better for my Subies? (EA82 and ER27)

I Use Motul Minerally Based Oil 20W-50 in Both (Also in my Dad´s 1969 Mercury Comet) ´cos with it, the Tick is Almost Gone, but maybe you know Somethin´ about Mineral Oils that I don´t Know...

Thanx!, Best Regards. :)

JesZeK.

#11 nipper

nipper

    Semi Elite Master of the

  • Members
  • 17,546 posts
  • Long Island NY

Posted 02 January 2007 - 10:36 PM

Thanx to All replies! :) , Very Nice info. I didn´t Knew... I was about to Buy a Bottle of PTFE engine Treatment for my Tickin´ EA82, but now I Don´t! :D

Other Question, Between Petrol Based Oils, and Minerally Based Oils, Which one is Better for my Subies? (EA82 and ER27)

I Use Motul Minerally Based Oil 20W-50 in Both (Also in my Dad´s 1969 Mercury Comet) ´cos with it, the Tick is Almost Gone, but maybe you know Somethin´ about Mineral Oils that I don´t Know...

Thanx!, Best Regards. :)

JesZeK.


You just HAVE to throw gasoline on the fire dont you ....

i'll just hide over in this corner where its safe :cool:

nipper

#12 bgd73

bgd73

    Banned - WARNING! Disregard EVERYTHING posted by this user

  • Banned
  • 1,210 posts
  • Concrete Glacier

Posted 02 January 2007 - 10:39 PM

If the engine is good, so is every oil. miles and years and the dynamics of engine wear in thier locale change the oil brands for those who pay attention to it. mineral oil sounds interesting, except for my locale. I knew of rotella 15W40 being used in soobs with great claims, but i just go with regular stuff.There is many options. after tearing down an old ea82 I used castrol high mileage with, I may go all synthetic as I found something that could only come with an additive- the greyish teflon looking stuff. That does come with fuel additives that i have tried, so I can't really be sure. I don't know as high mileage castrol even mentions additives. After the synthetic thread and some posts of good results, my 105k ea82 is still quite tight and will upgrade to full synthetic. If it worked for the synthetic grease on the axle bearings, I am optimistic about the engine as well.:) As it is, I have some kind of super lube hasppening as the oil only gets luke warm after high speeds down the highway in this cooler weather. my spfi soob was a roaster in comparison. So even the different ea82s can determine a favorite oil.

#13 NoahDL88

NoahDL88

    Elite Master of Cookies

  • Members
  • 4,264 posts
  • Everett, WA, USA

Posted 03 January 2007 - 12:39 AM

I belive mineral and petrol based oil are the same :rolleyes:

Also, with oil, you get what you pay for, every oil, if it has the "star" and the "donut" will meet the minimum requirements, but do you want to go see a doctor with C's or A's? I don't go crazy with the really nice oils, but i don't use the walmart junk either, i just go with a Castrol 10W-30 i think the GTX stuff.

As has been said, stay away from the "high mileage" stuff, it swells your seals, and if you ever stop using it they will shrink back down and leak like a sieve.

#14 Milemaker13

Milemaker13

    Eat, Live, Breath Subaru

  • Members
  • 324 posts
  • Dekalb

Posted 03 January 2007 - 07:40 AM

As has been said, stay away from the "high mileage" stuff, it swells your seals, and if you ever stop using it they will shrink back down and leak like a sieve.[/QUOTE]


I have to agree here. Always been told not to switch to synthetic then back to dyno. This is probally a good reason for it. It makes alot of sense.

#15 sun417

sun417

    New User

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 12 posts
  • Grafton

Posted 03 January 2007 - 10:12 AM

[Interesting info on lube. I have been looking into ways to get better performance on my 87 wagon. I no mechanic and the info on the link is contrary to most I have read but it makes some good ideas. Take a look and let me know what you guys think. Here is the link

http://www.lubedev.c...tgas/ultra5.htm

#16 calebz

calebz

    Andys Coupe killed my cat

  • Administrator
  • 7,547 posts
  • Tacoma

Posted 03 January 2007 - 10:37 AM

Don't use additives expecially PTFE teflon. The FTC has sued Slick 50 over its use and advertising. Just use a quality oil and it will have its own additive package.


Agreed

(Side note: My grandfather was one of the original Slick50 engineers:-p )

#17 nipper

nipper

    Semi Elite Master of the

  • Members
  • 17,546 posts
  • Long Island NY

Posted 03 January 2007 - 10:45 AM

Agreed

(Side note: My grandfather was one of the original Slick50 engineers:-p )


AHA! now we know who to blame

:-p

nipper

#18 calebz

calebz

    Andys Coupe killed my cat

  • Administrator
  • 7,547 posts
  • Tacoma

Posted 03 January 2007 - 12:12 PM

AHA! now we know who to blame

:-p

nipper


He won't mind. He's been dead for about 10 years. We blame him for everything since he never fights back:grin:

#19 nipper

nipper

    Semi Elite Master of the

  • Members
  • 17,546 posts
  • Long Island NY

Posted 03 January 2007 - 12:15 PM

He won't mind. He's been dead for about 10 years. We blame him for everything since he never fights back:grin:



I worked with teflon all the time (mixing chemicals, bonding it to materials) . I would laugh my rump roast off at the slick 50 commercials knowing how wrong they were. It's amazing what a marketing department can do, once something leaves engineering.
What ever happened to slick 50 anyway, sort of faded away.

nipper

#20 nipper

nipper

    Semi Elite Master of the

  • Members
  • 17,546 posts
  • Long Island NY

Posted 03 January 2007 - 12:21 PM

[Interesting info on lube. I have been looking into ways to get better performance on my 87 wagon. I no mechanic and the info on the link is contrary to most I have read but it makes some good ideas. Take a look and let me know what you guys think. Here is the link

http://www.lubedev.c...tgas/ultra5.htm


There are so many things wrong with that i dont even know where to start. The last one has the potential to cause vapor lock (why do you think fuel injection returns fuel back to the gas tank? to keep it cool and help cool the injectors).
There are brands on that site i never even heard of. Some of the advice is correct, the mjority of it is bogus.
Odd how when i started reading the site, i asked mysefl "ok what are they selling". there it is right on the bottom.

nipper

#21 sun417

sun417

    New User

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 12 posts
  • Grafton

Posted 03 January 2007 - 12:44 PM

There are so many things wrong with that i dont even know where to start. The last one has the potential to cause vapor lock (why do you think fuel injection returns fuel back to the gas tank? to keep it cool and help cool the injectors).
There are brands on that site i never even heard of. Some of the advice is correct, the mjority of it is bogus.
Odd how when i started reading the site, i asked mysefl "ok what are they selling". there it is right on the bottom.

nipper


Great thats what I want to know which is bogus?
Here is the rest of the stuff they claim

http://www.lubedev.com/smartgas/

#22 nipper

nipper

    Semi Elite Master of the

  • Members
  • 17,546 posts
  • Long Island NY

Posted 03 January 2007 - 03:01 PM

Great thats what I want to know which is bogus?
Here is the rest of the stuff they claim

http://www.lubedev.com/smartgas/


so so so many things wrong, and its a shame. He makes some valid points (very few) but then goes off on rants. He cuts and pastes things from other sites (especially where he goes from talking about creative molecules to [proper combustion theory and doesnt give credit for it).

thanks i needed the laugh.

nipper

#23 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

Loyale 2.7 Turbo

    The Mighty "BumbleBeast"

  • Members
  • 5,598 posts
  • Roatán, Honduras.

Posted 03 January 2007 - 09:44 PM

Thanx for your Kind Replies! :)

I Didn´t Understand this one:

You just HAVE to throw gasoline on the fire dont you ....

i'll just hide over in this corner where its safe :cool:

nipper


* * *

Agreed

(Side note: My grandfather was one of the original Slick50 engineers:-p )


Nice to Know! ... but What is exactly Slick 50?

If the engine is good, so is every oil... ...If it worked for the synthetic grease on the axle bearings, I am optimistic about the engine as well.:) ...


Well... About Greases, I Have Tried many Brands for my Constant Velocity Joints (Axles... I Dunno the Right Translation from Spanish) and Bearing of my Subies... and the Only Grease that Works Very Well and Develop Greatest Performance, Durability, etc... (For My Subies) is This:


Posted Image

Also, I Use the Large Rubber Boots (those Used in the Gearbox part of the Axles) in the Wheel Parts of ´em.


Those Last Longer! :brow:

#24 daeron

daeron

    Cunning Linguist

  • Members
  • 3,600 posts
  • West Palm Beach

Posted 03 January 2007 - 10:12 PM

It's amazing what a marketing department can do, once something leaves engineering.

nipper

can you say.. microsoft?

and Loyale 2.7: Constant veloocity joints/axles, its all the same..

Your command of english is actually astoundingly good, considering how abstract automotive terminology can get. The most common problem I ever see in your grasp of our language is misunderstanding small jokes and odd comments, like nipper's earlier about throwing gas on the fire. I know a little spanish, and mostly its the technical side that i DO understand.. but my vocabulary is lacking. Given that, plus the fact that I live in south Florida, I have gotten pretty good at noticing spanish-speakers' mistakes and why they make them.. your mistakes are rare, and very very small. :clap: English can be a tricky language, since the English went and conquered/stole half the world.. they were taking words and phrases from everyone the whole time, so there is no telling what one of us might say :grin:

My advice for you on the language front: if you don't get a statement, feel free to ask for explanation, BUT it is probably a joke :lol: Most of what you tell us makes perfect sense.

Using a forum like this is probably a FANTASTIC foreign language excercise.. because so many of us WILL make posts that are very informal, and in some sort of street lingo/language.. I use words like "aint" all the time. once again, applause to you, for speaking a language foreign to you, FAR better than most of us could do.

#25 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

Loyale 2.7 Turbo

    The Mighty "BumbleBeast"

  • Members
  • 5,598 posts
  • Roatán, Honduras.

Posted 04 January 2007 - 02:50 PM

...once again, applause to you, for speaking a language foreign to you, FAR better than most of us could do.


Really Thank you Soo Much!, You are So Kind!
:)






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users