26 replies to this topic

[WoodsWagon]

A local shop owner bought a flood car, LL bean 3.0r. He swaped the engine, doors, and some of the wiring out from a 2.5l legacy, so he has a ll bean package 2.5l legacy now. The engine is sitting under a pickup bed cap. I haven't looked at it yet, but I may pick it up just to take it apart. If it doesn't look to bad, I may fix it and mabe swap it into an older car.

[Manarius]

Flood cars never make good for anything but parts

[Dr. RX]

Look at it this way, a car that was in a flood was probably no running at the time it was covered with water, so any water that got into the engine, didn't get into the bearing surfaces. If you blow a head gasket, the water gets into the oil system. People rebuild engines with blown head gaskets all the time, but won't look twice at a car the was in a flood, which engine do you think is worst? The engine should be fine, just make sure to change the oil, run the engine for about 500 miles, then do an oil change. If there is any rust internally, it would be surface rust and would not bother anything. There really shouldn't be any internal rust, the internals should have had a thin coating of oil on everything. I really doubt that must of the electrical would have been damaged either, it just may not look pretty.

[WoodsWagon]

There is also the possibility that someone tried to start is without removing plugs and bent a rod.

There's loads of what ifs, but if I can get it cheap, There's a moderate chance it could run again.

[grossgary]

do you know if he just plug and play swapped the engines? that would be crazy information to know if the 3.0 H6 plugged right up to EJ25 connectors.

[nipper]

If it was just pareked it shold be ok. Usually there is an air pocket in the engine that will keep the water out, and the crankase is air tight for the most part. At worst one cylinder gets water in it.
The first thing i would do is see if you can crank it by hand. If you want to take the engine just to fiddle with it, go ahead, its always fun to take things apart.

nipper

[WoodsWagon]

I took a closer look today. The throttle plate is corroded shut.. first bad sign. The dipstick came up overfilled and mocha-ish... second bad sign.
The tranny dipstick came up with chunky bits on it?.. Lookin ugly.

I pulled a valve cover. It's deja-vu with the 2.5 DOHC-same head design. Camshaft lobes are not rusty, inside looked clean. Looked like a perfectly good engine from what internals I could see.

From the looks of the bellhousing, the 3.0 has it's own style, and it's own style tranny? Anyone run across this before? There was a lot more bolts holding the engine to the tranny than I'm used to.

Owner wanted 750 for the engine tranny combo over the phone from his son, who runs the shop.

Owner donated tools to and supports the highschool auto program where I graduated from last year, and did national competitions for. I hope this will work in my favor when I do face to face negotiations. I'm Thinking around $400 for the combo, as both are dubious. I also want to find out what he did with the wiring harness to run the 4cy in the 6cyl body.

[johnceggleston]

Anyone run across this before? There was a lot more bolts holding the engine to the tranny than I'm used to.

when searching car-part.com for 00 - 03 leg / outback a/t's i remember reading a note that said "8 bolt model". i don't know exactly, but it might mean there is hope for a match.

apparently some of the earlier h6 3.0 engines used transmission with similar model numbers, but the later ones are way different.

TG5C7CMAAA - 05 outback 3.0L a/t

T21B7LCACA - 05 outback 2.5L a/t canada & fed. Not calf.

TZ1A4ZMEAA - 03 - 04 outback 3.0L a/t without VDC

TZ1A4ZCEBA - 03 outback 2.5L a/t

in 97 -99 a/t model numbers, the character after the second 'Z' (position 7) indicated 2.5 or 2.2 engine. '2' for 2,5 and a letter for 2.2. gearing and driive ratios aside the trans housings were the same other wise. it looks like maybe the 'M' in position 7 indicate 3.0L..

the TZ1A4... series started in 2000 i think.

what year is this h6 3.0 ?

[benebob]

when searching car-part.com for 00 - 03 leg / outback a/t's i remember reading a note that said "8 bolt model". i don't know exactly, but it might mean there is hope for a match.

apparently some of the earlier h6 3.0 engines used transmission with similar model numbers, but the later ones are way different.

TG5C7CMAAA - 05 outback 3.0L a/t

T21B7LCACA - 05 outback 2.5L a/t canada & fed. Not calf.

TZ1A4ZMEAA - 03 - 04 outback 3.0L a/t without VDC

TZ1A4ZCEBA - 03 outback 2.5L a/t

in 97 -99 a/t model numbers, the character after the second 'Z' (position 7) indicated 2.5 or 2.2 engine. '2' for 2,5 and a letter for 2.2. gearing and driive ratios aside the trans housings were the same other wise. it looks like maybe the 'M' in position 7 indicate 3.0L..

the TZ1A4... series started in 2000 i think.

what year is this h6 3.0 ?

Hey John, to you have the decifer system for the tranny codes? If so can you pm or post which one tells the gearing?

[johnceggleston]

Hey John, to you have the decifer system for the tranny codes? If so can you pm or post which one tells the gearing?

NO!! i can't decipher the tranny codes. i have just spent a long time searching for transmissions. (i'm looking of rmy second 96 leg 2.2 right now)

what are you trying to figure out.?

i'm mostly familiar with legacy, 95 - 99

legacy ............................................................outback
TZ102zA2AA - 94 ?
TZ102ZAAAA - 95 & 96 early ..............................TZ102ZABAA - 96 2.2L
TZ102ZABAA - 96 .............................................TZ102Z2ABA - 96 2.5L
TZ102ZACAA - 97 & 98 ......................................TZ102Z2CBA - 97 & 98 2.5L
TX102ZADAA - 99 (guess?) .................................TZ102Z2DBA - 98 late & 99 early 2.5L
.......................................................................TZ1A2ZJEBA - 99 late 2.5 pase II 4eat

after searching for trannys that would fit in my car i noticed the the 2.5 outbacks had a 2 after the second Z in the model number. this 2 represents 2.5L. this is fact. i suspect that the 2 represents different final drive ratios, but i have no proof. i think that the only differentce between the 2.2 leg and the 2.5 gt / ob trans is the final drive ratio.

( i guess the TCU for the GT may have different "programing" for that sportier car, but i doubt the mechanics are different.)

by the way, the 90 -94 trannys that did not have any Z's were FWD. those number had A's instead Z's. TA102Axxxx = FWD

so anty time i see other similarities betwen tranny numbers i assume ...i know, dangerous. if there is not a major generation change, usually the last 3 or 4 letters progress from one year to the next. this works up to about 03, 04 (?).

it's way too expensive for subaru to completely change the trans every year, but there may be minor changes. so when putting a 97 in a 96 car, get the tcu to go with it.

idon't know impreza or forester numbers, but i bet all of the 96 - 98 (maybe 99) forester trannys had a 2 after the second Z. ( i don't know when the forester was introduced.)

i think i'm lost now,
john

[benebob]

Just the final drive ratio once the tranny has been pulled as it makes it difficult if ya don't know where she came from. Subaru wasn't any help claiming the numbers didn't mean anything.

[johnceggleston]

Just the final drive ratio once the tranny has been pulled as it makes it difficult if ya don't know where she came from. Subaru wasn't any help claiming the numbers didn't mean anything.

for the 95 -99 legacy / outbacks there are only 3 to pick from. 3.9, 4.11, 4.44. i think the 3.9 was only in manual trans (?). the 4.11 was 2.2L, and the 4.44 was in 2.5L. but ive said this beforew and been corrected. so this is my best guess, not 100%. but i haven't seen any thing else to say different except some saying his 2.5L had the 4.11 differential.

if you have the tranny number, you can got to carpart.com and search for different years and model trannys and eventually come across a tranny number. some will be listed before you get search results. it's tedious, but it works.

what car and year are you working on.

[benebob]

for the 95 -99 legacy / outbacks there are only 3 to pick from. 3.9, 4.11, 4.44. i think the 3.9 was only in manual trans (?). the 4.11 was 2.2L, and the 4.44 was in 2.5L. but ive said this beforew and been corrected. so this is my best guess, not 100%. but i haven't seen any thing else to say different except some saying his 2.5L had the 4.11 differential.

if you have the tranny number, you can got to carpart.com and search for different years and model trannys and eventually come across a tranny number. some will be listed before you get search results. it's tedious, but it works.

what car and year are you working on.

I've actually tried with car part but there isn't any logic to the numbering that I can see. For the most part the 3.9, 4.11 and 4.44 follow patterns but there are plenty of oddballs out there. Just looking for knowledge as we've run into some questions with trannies for our race SVX. When you pull a new tranny that the rear dif doesn't say what ratio it is you just wonder in the back of your head if it is the "right" gearing for what the car should be or if its an anomaly.

[WoodsWagon]

Is there any compatability between the 8 bolt bellhousing and the 4bolt?

I don't want to bother wiring up a TCU if I do get the engine. A five speed would be great, but I haven't heard of any with the 8 bolt pattern.

[NorthWet]

Regarding bending a rod trying to start it, it is not going to happen. The starter does not have the power, and the engine can't develop enough momentum before hydrolock would occur. If the price were right (and I had the price :-\), I would jump on it.

[WoodsWagon]

Regarding bending a rod trying to start it, it is not going to happen. The starter does not have the power, and the engine can't develop enough momentum before hydrolock would occur. If the price were right (and I had the price :-\), I would jump on it.

Owner wanted 750 for the engine tranny combo over the phone from his son, who runs the shop.


You don't think that if one cyl had water in it, and another fired on starting, that it would have enough force to bend something?

I could buy the engine separately from the tranny if I knew whether I could hook a 5spd manual up to it.

[NorthWet]

...You don't think that if one cyl had water in it, and another fired on starting, that it would have enough force to bend something?

I could buy the engine separately from the tranny if I knew whether I could hook a 5spd manual up to it.

The force of combustion doesn't bend the firing-cylinder's con-rod, wouldn't bend the hydrolocked cylinder's rod. Very unlikely that the engine could build enough momentum off of 1-2 cylinders firing before it hit the hydrolocked cylinder, and the escalating pressure should dampen the momentum prior to lock. Just my $.02...

Wish I could say something about the tranny bolt pattern. Don't know one way or the other. I don't recall having heard anyone mention before mention a different pattern for the 3.0, though I think some mention has been made about the 3.3/SVX having a special/specific tranny.

[benebob]

, though I think some mention has been made about the 3.3/SVX having a special/specific tranny.

Somewhat. Same bell housing bolt pattern, own ration 3.53 and it has a beefier clutch pack set up but otherwise exactly the same down to the wiring harness with same era legacy and not-so-impressive.

[Storm]

There are a couple EZ30R's going into Imprezas now with varying levels of success. All of them gave been bolted to 5 and 6 speed trannies. If you can get a deal on the motor, it's probably worth it. It's alot of work to make it run in another car though. Standalone engine mangagement will be your easiest route due to the immobilizer system in the OE wiring/ECU.

Jay Storm

[WoodsWagon]

Do you have links to these swaps? The bell housing looked a lot different, but mabe the extra bolts don't matter? If I could put a 5spd behind it, I'd buy it.

[Will Smith]

Flood cars never make good for anything but parts

Amen! as a veteran of hundreds of salvage auctions---buy flood cars for sheet metal only.

[Hocrest]

I realize this is an old thread, but I came across it in a Google search while trying to find the ration of a 4EAT, the answer wasn't in this thread, but it is now...
http://mmerlinn.com/...22/jtr22010.htm
This site gives the ring and pinion count and a little bit of math will give you the ratio...

[WoodsWagon]

Hocrest, I'm going to try and not be an rump roast about this, but this was a foolish necro-bump.

This thread was me asking about an engine, and not caring about the transmission, but hoping the bellhousing was the same.

The answer to that question is yes, the 8 bolt bellhousing is the same 4cyl or 6cyl, and is reverse compatible with the 4 bolt bellhousing.

Your link is helpful for people trying to match ratios with trans codes, and would have made much more sense in a thread asking about auto trans swaps.

That engine is still sitting where it lay because I wasn't going to pay $750 for an unknown condition engine with no wiring harness, and he wasn't willing to come down on the price. It still tempts me.

[Hocrest]

But when I did a search for "tz1a4zceba ratio" this is the one thread that came up. And now it has more information if anyone repeats that search.

[CNY_Dave]

I realize this is an old thread, but I came across it in a Google search while trying to find the ration of a 4EAT, the answer wasn't in this thread, but it is now...
http://mmerlinn.com/...22/jtr22010.htm
This site gives the ring and pinion count and a little bit of math will give you the ratio...

Which one on that page?