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First Snow: Subie > Toyo


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#1 mrCharlie

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Posted 21 January 2007 - 03:44 PM

Hey all,

I've had my 99 Legacy GT for just under a year. Today I finally got my first chance to try it out in around 3" of fresh snow. I'm running Toyo Proxes 4's ("all seasons") with about 10k on them.

I was very impressed with the car's abilities-and absolute ton of traction, no problems on sloppy hills or starting off. Cornering was okay as long as I kept it slow and carried a little throttle, otherwise it got pretty little iffy. The big complaint was stopping, or lack of ability to do so. My driveway is along a short but steepish hill, and I ABSd right past it on the way home. I then backed up to try to pull in from a stop, but couldn't get the car to stop again once I let off the brakes. I ended up turning around in a neighbors driveway and climbing into my drive, which was no problem at all. Driving around town it was bad too coming to a stop, ABSing even from ultra-low speeds. Even when the car did want to stop, the back end felt really loose.

It seems like the tires just aren't very good and the ABS is really touchy. By comparison, for the last 6-7 years, I've driven RWD BMWs, and I always ran Michelin Arctic-Alpins in the winter. Even in heavy snow, those stopped great, cornered great, and were just much more predictable. They definitely did not have the traction taking off the Subie has, although my old 325es with a limited slip differential was pretty darn good. My one experience trying the 325 with all season tires resulted in the car fishtailing its way into my parents yard.

I think the answer for next year is to try to get some spare wheels and snows. Since I live in Ohio and we don't usually get all that much snow, I don't think I need anything too extreme. Maybe Nokian WRs or something that works okay the 95% of the time it isn't snowing. The Michelins weren't too bad for regular driving. It might be a little overkill, but I guess I've been spoiled by running snow tires for so long.

Thoughts?

#2 PeterD

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Posted 21 January 2007 - 03:51 PM

a friend of mine has Nokian WRs on his Passat and loves them. he drives on them year round.

#3 _Aramchek_

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Posted 21 January 2007 - 04:52 PM

Maaaaan,I'm mad,we got snow and my car won't be done for another week.

Has brand new Toyo spectrums on it that I want to try.

I know they're not the Proxes,but still.:banana:

#4 Suzam

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Posted 21 January 2007 - 06:02 PM

Check you tire pressure. You could try letting a couple of pounds of pressure out of tires all around and see if that helps. If you run a little over inflated it can effect the braking in snow.

#5 Snowman

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Posted 21 January 2007 - 09:11 PM

A soob with "real" winter tires is incredible in the snow. Having studs will do for turning and braking what AWD does for acceleration.

#6 RallyKeith

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Posted 21 January 2007 - 10:58 PM

Having studs will do for turning and braking what AWD does for acceleration.


Studs do nothing in fresh snow, and in the rain are a hazard. Living where you do I highly reccomend you not get studs. They are only worth while if you are dealing with hard packed snow or ice. Around here we get a lot of snow that melts off in a few days or weeks. Studs on wet roads are like summer tires on ice. A tire like the Nokian WR can be run year round and will provide excelent snow and ice traction with minimal compramise in dry and wet traction.

#7 Snowman

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Posted 22 January 2007 - 02:27 AM

Studs do nothing in fresh snow, and in the rain are a hazard. Living where you do I highly reccomend you not get studs. They are only worth while if you are dealing with hard packed snow or ice. Around here we get a lot of snow that melts off in a few days or weeks. Studs on wet roads are like summer tires on ice. A tire like the Nokian WR can be run year round and will provide excelent snow and ice traction with minimal compramise in dry and wet traction.


Sorry if I was misleading there. Like Keith explained, it all depends on your application. I'm used to living in areas where there is hard packed snow or ice for months at a time. If you're mostly dealing with slush and wet pavement, then some studless snow tires would probably serve you better.

#8 Ranger83

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Posted 22 January 2007 - 09:49 PM

A year ago I didn't know anyone with Nokian WR's. Now I have two cars with them, and three friends have mounted them as well - two year-round.

I got an email from a co-worker who went from OEM Bridgestones to the WR's. She drove home in an ice storm recently and was puzzled by all the cars off the road. She got home, stepped out of the car, and fell down on the ice!

Studs do nothing in fresh snow, and in the rain are a hazard. Living where you do I highly reccomend you not get studs.

He lives in Alaska.....

Your experience with studded tires is very out of date. Modern studded tires have progressed a long way, with fewer, shorter studs and more advanced tire compounds. Two people at work have Hakka II's - one studded and one not - and there is little difference driving them back-to-back. The Norwegians tested both at: http://www.motor.no/...50_Mo08_LR1.pdf. "Piggfri" or "dubbfria" are the non-studded tires. Their performance is extraordinary on snow and ice, and many of the studded tires stopped in a shorter distance on wet pavement than the stud-free versions.

#9 biffbradford

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Posted 23 January 2007 - 01:43 AM

[quote name='Snowman']A soob with "real" winter tires is incredible in the snow. ... [quote]

I have some 'mud and snow' tires from Fleet Farm, I run them all year. They look similar to this:

Posted Image

I've got 30 k+ miles on them and they show little wear. Not only do they grab in the snow, but they seem to cut through deep puddles in the summer too.

jw

#10 mrCharlie

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Posted 23 January 2007 - 09:57 AM

I think it sounds like my solution might be the Nokain WRs on spare wheels next season. Snow is really inconsistent in this part of Ohio, and while I've run snow tires in the past, I also had cars that were mostly undriveable without them. I think I would do better with tires that handle decently well on the 95% of days the roads are dry during most Ohio winters, but still work well on the snow.

I'm not sure if I would want to run the Nokians year round- the reviews I've seen make it sound like they don't handle all that well driven hard, and I would be surprised if they held up well if well if pushed hard very often. I like driving my car kind of hard during the summer (not ridiculous, but I do push it a little).

#11 mrCharlie

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Posted 23 January 2007 - 10:03 AM

Sorry about the extra posts...my browser seemed to get stuck while I was trying to post. Apparently it worked...

#12 mrCharlie

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Posted 23 January 2007 - 10:11 AM

Sorry about the extra posts...my browser seemed to get stuck while I was trying to post. Apparently it worked...

#13 PeterD

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Posted 23 January 2007 - 11:49 AM

I think it sounds like my solution might be the Nokain WRs on spare wheels next season. Snow is really inconsistent in this part of Ohio, and while I've run snow tires in the past, I also had cars that were mostly undriveable without them. I think I would do better with tires that handle decently well on the 95% of days the roads are dry during most Ohio winters, but still work well on the snow.

I'm not sure if I would want to run the Nokians year round- the reviews I've seen make it sound like they don't handle all that well driven hard, and I would be surprised if they held up well if well if pushed hard very often. I like driving my car kind of hard during the summer (not ridiculous, but I do push it a little).


then i would go for a set of summer tires, the WR is a good tire just not something you want to autox with or whatnot. for dry weather driving i hate siped tires i find they are really really squirmy.




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