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Nitrous on EA81?


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39 replies to this topic

#1 subie_newbie

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Posted 22 January 2007 - 11:24 AM

Anyone have any experience with this? I'm worried about being able to unload 30" boggers with the motor in mostly stock form, and this would seem an easy solution for a low compression motor.

Thanks!

#2 NoahDL88

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Posted 22 January 2007 - 11:40 AM

You'd need to run a wet system, and even then i don't think it would make a difference in turning boggers, at lest reliably, and if you're using it to get moving from every light, it'll last maybe half a mile.

Don't think it would be a good idea.



When you say low compression, are you running a turbo motor without a turbo?

#3 thatswhatshesaid

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Posted 22 January 2007 - 02:23 PM

I say "bad idea".

You lose too much reliability just to smoke the boggers a couple times.

#4 crazy D

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Posted 22 January 2007 - 07:08 PM

ummm.....NO!!!!!!! dont do it!

#5 mellow65

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Posted 22 January 2007 - 08:07 PM

if you want something fast buy something other then a subaru. keep away from the laughing gas, things go boom with stuff because you always want more. and then it's to late

#6 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 22 January 2007 - 08:11 PM

On the other hand, Rguyver had SPFI, Turbo, and NOS on his lifted hatch (NA EA81 hatch). Didn't blow it up - ended up selling it to some guy (but kept the NOS setup), and I beleive he now has it back again. The SPFI didn't like positive manifold pressure, but he had a second injector rigged up to it to compensate.... apparently it was pretty quick. But then he also knows what he's doing..... he currently has an EJ20G in his lowered 5 lug Brat.

Don't attempt stuff like this unless you know what you are doing, and are willing and able to fail (possibly messily).

GD

#7 kotty

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 08:19 PM

Okay, I tried my best to make sense of your post, but the best I can gather is that you thought the boggers would not be the cause if the engine were healthy... If the engine weren't healthy, then it was already done for and was about to blow up whether a NOS Big Shot Nitrous System were installed or not.

#8 rguyver

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Posted 01 March 2008 - 02:36 PM

I say Do IT !!!! :banana::banana:


NOS isnt that bad if you follow some rules #1 dont over do !a 50hp shot kit for a V8 is like a 200 hp shot on a 80hp 1800cc engine , #2 use proper plugs and a good coil so you dont blow out the spark , #3 dont make sure you have good fuel pump and supply , if you run lean you will melt a piston .

i also have to mention i melted a piston on my first attempt :eek: but a 50hp shot only makes the car feel like a turbo car , its not like the Fast and the silly ware the world blurs and you are sucked in to the seat like a jet plane , you will find its only good for the drag strip .

#9 Myxalplyx

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Posted 01 March 2008 - 07:00 PM

Anyone have any experience with this? I'm worried about being able to unload 30" boggers with the motor in mostly stock form, and this would seem an easy solution for a low compression motor.

Thanks!


1) Make sure the car is in tip-top shape before running nitrous,

2) Once in tip-top shape, if you plan on running a dry nitrous setup, send your injectors out to be cleaned and be sure your fuel pump is working properly,

3) If a wet kit, be sure your fuel pump is working properly,

4) Dry - I would not recommend anything over 60hp shot. Wet, I would not recommend anything over 80hp. Start off slowly in any case with a 40-50hp shot.

Remember, you'll even with a low jetting, you'll be spraying somewhere around half the hp/tq your car is already making. Just imagine a 230hp WRX spraying 115hp shot into its engine. Take baby steps and be safe.

I had planned on running nitrous on my RX turbo just before it kicked the bucket. The plan was to have the first RX turbo in the 13s in the 1/4. It rusted to it never came to be. Inspect your car thoroughly to be sure all parts are running as it should. Then go for it.

#10 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 01 March 2008 - 07:06 PM

THIS THREAD IS A YEAR OLD :confused:

GD

#11 RAD

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 12:46 PM

The fallacy of this whole subject is the assumption of how the Nitrous wil be used.
If you make the usual use of it, all negatives in this thread apply.

There IS another way.
 

Don't go POWER BOOST. Use it as an additive, like a super octane booster.
Give the engine enough to make the difference, not to blast off into outer space. When you need to pass, if you are on an uphill grade, etc.
To this end also, it must be remembered that how long your NO tank depends on the size of the tank as well you know...
I'm not saying to get a 5 foot cylinder, but one notch up in size can make a world of difference.

I think the main issues are actually 0. (Safety) 1. Legality, 2. Getting the GOOD stuff, not the stuff laced with sulfur dioxide & 3. Overall cost over time of use, if its really worth it or not.



#12 RAD

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 12:50 PM

THIS THREAD IS A YEAR OLD :confused:

GD

- Not any more.... lol...



#13 l75eya

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 03:35 PM

I needed a good laugh today. Nos on an ea81. That's good.

#14 Rust

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 04:31 PM

snap233.6.jpg

How about the rocket power upgrade.

cannonball-run-feature-20050728115651431



#15 RAD

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Posted 26 February 2017 - 11:34 AM

I needed a good laugh today. Nos on an ea81. That's good.


Ok... Why is that so funny?
There are only so many ways to make a serious attempt at giving an EA81 engine more real power.
Everybody says to improve it by replacing it - No.
There is absolutely no reason why you cannot seriously improve the performance of an EA81, and it generally involves doing some of the same things that are done on any other engine.
The EA81 has its limitations - thus, the need to work with them.
As I stated, adding nitrous does not necessarily have to be full blast or nothing, the question is how to do it, how effective a slow bleed can be, is it really worth it, etc.

If I want to go with respectable speed and power up a long, steep grade, especially with a load of some sort in the back, the usefulness of performance mods is extremely practical to the driver experience and results.


This forum (in general)is supposed to be a haven for Subaru freaks.
I find the continued lack of respect for improving on the EA81 disturbing.

As far as practicality, everybody and his brother says to just swap some EJ engine in it.
Problem is, at the end of the day, doing so costs more than buying another car, takes a hell of a lot of time and work, and basically BUTCHERS what the Subaru is that had the EA81.

That, by comparison, makes a LOT less sense than spending a few hundred on a lot less work and time to get real, noticeable improvement.
 



#16 AdventureSubaru

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Posted 26 February 2017 - 12:16 PM

The EA81 and its limitations are well documented. We've done just about everything to them which is why any serious conversation about power upgrades means a motor swap.

 

The EA81 is an extremely durable motor that is time tested but also makes very little power. Any cost/benefit analysis based on experience says that if you want more power and you wish to keep reliability, you are looking at a motor swap.

 

NOS on an EA81 is silly. Possible, and probably fun, but silly. Experience from running these motors for 30+ years tells us it's not the best ideas. particularly for the EA81 platform as adding large scale power to the motor means big issues elsewhere.

 

I think it was Allied Armament about 10 years ago put a turbo WRX motor into a lifted EA81 wagon. Sheared a few axles and I think they blew up the rear diff in the first 10 miles.

 

Again, these aren't pet theories but the conventional wisdom of decades of use of the EA81 and dozens of EJ swaps (Which usually cost the couple hundred dollars of a parts car and a $100 adapter plate for real HP gains without sacrificing reliability.



#17 RAD

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Posted 26 February 2017 - 02:25 PM

The EA81 and its limitations are well documented. We've done just about everything to them which is why any serious conversation about power upgrades means a motor swap.

 

The EA81 is an extremely durable motor that is time tested but also makes very little power. Any cost/benefit analysis based on experience says that if you want more power and you wish to keep reliability, you are looking at a motor swap.

 

NOS on an EA81 is silly. Possible, and probably fun, but silly. Experience from running these motors for 30+ years tells us it's not the best ideas. particularly for the EA81 platform as adding large scale power to the motor means big issues elsewhere.

 

I think it was Allied Armament about 10 years ago put a turbo WRX motor into a lifted EA81 wagon. Sheared a few axles and I think they blew up the rear diff in the first 10 miles.

 

Again, these aren't pet theories but the conventional wisdom of decades of use of the EA81 and dozens of EJ swaps (Which usually cost the couple hundred dollars of a parts car and a $100 adapter plate for real HP gains without sacrificing reliability.

 

Again, I must insist that your whole premise flies in the face of basic facts.

Sheering axels? - and what caused that? Just driving up a grade? Putzing around in city traffic?!? I seriously doubt it!
There is BIG, BIG difference in what you are claiming, vs. what I am saying.
Are you actually saying that running a little nitrous will make NO improvement? NOTHING noticeable?!?
Are you saying that it is impossible to drive without needing to blast off like a rocket?!?

This is about extremes and avoiding unnecessary extremes.

Also, essentially concluding that "It has all been done", and nobody can do different flies in the face of reality itself, not to mention countless examples throughout the history of engines.
I have recently discovered someone fabricating his own mini-stacks, separate mini-intakes on each head, with a carb on each one, and re-routing the coolant that otherwise would have flowed through the intake manifold.
- Don't see that too often, and it is something I am able to do myself if I wanted dual carbs, which I used to, and may reconsider.

Moderating Nitrous is like moderating airplane fuel.
If I ran pure airplane fuel in my brat, I would see SIGNIFICANT improvement in performance, I would also likely blow my engine, no surprise.
But if I ran a right mix of airplane fuel and regular quality fuel, I would still feel a difference without necessarily blowing my engine.
I have run airplane fuel in a motorcycle before, and it made a big difference, and while I was doing so, the engine did not blow.

My point here is that is I run Nitrous as it normally is, and blasted off like a rocket, I could very well expect to blow my engine, sheer something, etc.

If I don't go to that extreme, than the extreme results would not happen.
If I run Nitrous as an occasional and moderated use, it could very well improve performance when needed by a useful and practical margin.
The question is HOW to adapt and use it for moderate, occasional use, as opposed to all the experienced people who DON'T use it in that way or for that purpose, because 95% of anyone who adapts Nitrous does is for RACING Purposes, and I am not trying to build a RACE car.

Please think a little more and show a little more respect than to just off-handedly have a knee-jerk reaction and call it Ridiculous, based on a use that I did not propose in the first place. There is always another way of doing things, there is always another option, and anyone who thinks otherwise is doing nothing more than giving up, quitting, and dismissing possibilities in ignorance.

 




 



#18 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 26 February 2017 - 03:54 PM

Ridiculous. An EJ swap would be far less expensive than the fuel management needed to run N2O. You'll melt the engine before you figure out how to use it correctly. You would need thousands in fuel management, and instrumentation just other get it running and then probably several engines to sacrifice.

Even the highly modified EJ crowd steers clear of N2O for the most part. Subaru engines are too weak for that amount of cylinder pressure. You'll take out the mains and rods from crank flex and blow the thick graphite head gaskets right out of her.

I've contemplated doing N2O on a large turbo EJ in a "nitrous spool" configuration but my tuner (one of the best in the country) is sketched out by it.

GD

#19 AdventureSubaru

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Posted 26 February 2017 - 10:27 PM

You're wasting our time now. As i said, this is not theory. These are documented and already done. I myself have done dozens of motor swaps on these cars and speak not from "research" but from first hand experience. Same goes for the other regulars on here. Stop preaching to us and learn from us or move on.

#20 Logan K

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Posted 27 February 2017 - 11:35 AM

Anyone got pics of the SPFI turbo NOS ea81?  ;)



#21 iceageg

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Posted 27 February 2017 - 12:47 PM


This forum (in general)is supposed to be a haven for Subaru freaks.
I find the continued lack of respect for improving on the EA81 disturbing.

 

RAD,

 

I don't think what you are seeing is a lack of respect for the EA81.  It is people trying to help you understand that making EJ levels of power from an EA will cost more than swapping to an EJ.  There are decades of documentation where people have tried and it is a well proven fact that the Weber/Cam/MSD combination is about the limit of what can be achieved while both maintaining reliability and keeping costs under those of an EJ swap.  If you decide to pursue any other avenue you are 99% guaranteed to have costs start to spiral and/or daily reliability start to decline.  It is the very nature of hot rodding.  When you start to push the mechanical limits of the original design parts start to break, and when you start to add systems that are not already tried and proven you introduce quirks that must be dealt with.  You absolutely must anticipate scope creep in both cost and complexity when you start into uncharted territory or you are doomed to disappointment and failure.  You really do need to get the idea out of your head that you can improve on 30 years of well documented, tried and true, proven options cheaply and easily.  This is the only factor that you seem to be unwilling to acknowledge in your quest to try something new.  In your earlier posts on various threads you listed cost as one of your primary factors.  If this is still true you don't want to dive down the rabbit hole of R-n-D.

 

All that said by somebody who hopes you try, fail, change, fail, modify, fail, start over, fail, adjust, fail, tweak, fail, give up, try again, fail, facepalm, succeed, then bring a new and innovative success to us vintage subaru lovers.  Not that I hope for or will get any joy out of your failures.  I've just been through this enough times to understand that the process is universally unavoidable.  I have plans for Ruby Sue that involve uncharted territory as well and I fully expect people here to call me foolish and accuse me of wasting my time.  Others will grab a bag of popcorn and eagerly wait for the result.  But I hold no misgivings that it will not be disastrous at times and there is no guarantee that the end result will have any market viability.  I count on the endorphin rush that comes with accomplishing something unique.  I'm sure I will be able to get a serviceable result but it is very likely that the result will simply be proof that it can be done rather than the best new product on the market.

 

So much of what you get here (like anywhere on the internet) will be people who believe it is downright criminal to waste so much time and money to waste that much time and money on an effort that will likely never be duplicated.  You will get others who are unable to think outside the box.  There will also be a lot here who have actual knowledge about how new things could be tried and more importantly, how things have failed in the past.  All of these voices are valuable to the process.  I read a quote that was attributed to Bill Gates once that went something like, "A companies most valuable asset is it's loudest critics."  The people who are challenging your ideas should be thanked.  Trolls are a different story but thankfully we don't have many of those on this site.

 

Personally, I doubt a metered low volume NOS feed is going to accomplish what.  I'm quite certain it won't ever turn into a common modification in the community.  It would do something and I'm curious how it turns out.  Not curious enough to try it myself, but I enjoy the feeling of accomplishment that comes from trying something new enough to appreciate the efforts of others.  Just loose your death grip on the notion that it can be done both cheap and reliable.  That's not how hot rodding works.  Unless you are one of the lucky 1% that are made of unicorn poop and get it right the first time you are going to be either replacing parts or struggling with drivability.  Probably both.



#22 86BRATMAN

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Posted 27 February 2017 - 02:11 PM

Even getting an ea81 to ej22 power levels without forced induction is going to be a stretch without spending a good bit of money. You need to up the compression by changing the pistons, get an aggressive cam grind and deck the heads/block, Weber or spfi swap, upgraded ignition system are the basics.

Porting the heads and manifold correctly will give a modest bump in power. I say correctly because it's not bigger is better, there are right and wrong ways to port heads. Hogging out the ports will do more harm than good.

#23 turbosubarubrat

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Posted 28 February 2017 - 12:13 AM

Anyone got pics of the SPFI turbo NOS ea81?  ;)

Not nos but one of my budy's built one. Started out with a 32/36 then went to spfi with a extra injector for when boost hit. 20141025_171954_zpsbmzf6sq7.jpg

IMG_20150409_073644_zpspsmqcpp5.jpg



#24 RAD

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Posted 03 March 2017 - 05:19 PM

With the exception of the beneficial replies, some of these "experts" clearly just don't get it!

Everyone makes their choices, everyone is free to make their choices, and just because I do not choose the same as someone else does not make me an idiot that does not know what they are doing!
 

THIS BRAT IS EA81 !!! IT SHALL REAMAIN EA81 !!!
Anyone who cannot handle that. move on, stop wasting MY time!

The goal in this and other threads is extremely simple, max-out the performance of the EA81 within basic limits, what can be done?
I have YET so see one intelligent post about the MODERATE use of nitrous! Therefore ALL such criticisms are inapplicable, do not address the issue, and so far show me nothing to respect in the way of other people's presumed expertise!

I do NOT have to put an EJ engine in this Brat, and am not going to go to the EXTREMES of doing so, in fact, the most extreme of what i have suggested would cost me less than paying for an EJ swap, especially concerning the long list of added expenses, including travel, as nobody in my area is capable of doing so anyway!

What the hell is so damned hard about answering a simple question?!?

The question and issue is about making MODERATED and OCCASIONAL use of Nitrous when it is actually needed.
If someone cannot address that simple concept, THEY are wasting thier own time, and mine, go blow your fancy horn somewhere else!

I WILL either figure this out myself, of find someone with enough focus and consideration to address the actual issue!
 

JEEZE!!!



#25 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 03 March 2017 - 05:37 PM

Go and do it then. Put N2O on it and stop shouting at us. 

 

You WILL end up with an EJ in it because you will melt the EA81 and be unable to find a replacement. You do realize you can't buy exhaust valves or pistons for that engine right? Or crankshafts, or even oil pumps at this point. 

 

It WILL NOT cost less than an EJ. Not and stay together. Go price out a decent wide-band, EGT gauge, the fuel enrichment system, and the N2O.... just the parts will cost more. Obviously you don't realize this as evidenced by the fact that you have never done it and are here asking how. I have plenty of experience with N2O - we built a supercharged Z06 with N2O.... it made over 1000 HP..... I just got back from a dyno run on an EVO engine that cost over $12,000 to build. Do you really think I am telling you lies about what this will cost? 

 

If you slap an N2O kit on there without proper gauges, knowing how to read them, and proper enrichment you will melt the engine. And that's almost certainly what you will do because you don't believe me and others telling you the truth. You will hit that button and cause irreparable damage to an EA81 when it goes crazy lean and cylinder temps shoot up above 2000 F. 

 

Hey kid - check out out the post counts of the people responding to your questions and consider that you might want our help with reasonable and intelligent questions at some point....

 

EA engines = dead platform. 

 

GD


Edited by GeneralDisorder, 03 March 2017 - 05:40 PM.





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