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How to positively Identify 2.5 Engine in 99 Outback?


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35 replies to this topic

#1 steamin53

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Posted 22 January 2007 - 09:26 PM

I'm considering purchase of a 99 Legacy Outback. As I understand what I've read here there may be two versions of the 2.5 engine in this car. One a DOHC prone to Head Gasket failures and the other a SOHC less prone to such failures.

Without wasting my time going a distance to physically inspect the engine for which type it is, can I determine from the VIN or build date which type is in the car?

By the way it's only got 49K miles on it for $6700 and appears to be cherry.

HELP!:confused:

#2 _Aramchek_

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Posted 22 January 2007 - 09:31 PM

I'm considering purchase of a 99 Legacy Outback. As I understand what I've read here there may be two versions of the 2.5 engine in this car. One a DOHC prone to Head Gasket failures and the other a SOHC less prone to such failures.

Without wasting my time going a distance to physically inspect the engine for which type it is, can I determine from the VIN or build date which type is in the car?

By the way it's only got 49K miles on it for $6700 and appears to be cherry.

HELP!:confused:


I'm sure it says right on the valve covers,prolly the eaiest way to tell.:banana:

#3 svxpert

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Posted 22 January 2007 - 09:55 PM

<<I'm sure it says right on the valve covers,prolly the eaiest way to tell.>>

yeah, i doubt it says anything on the valve covers.
you have to look at the head. if there is a spot for 2 cam pulleys on one head its a DOHC, if there is only one its a SOHC.

#4 Manarius

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Posted 22 January 2007 - 10:02 PM

Two cam pulleys = DOHC, one cam pulley = SOHC. I could have swore they were DOHC until like 2001.

#5 steamin53

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Posted 22 January 2007 - 10:07 PM

Two cam pulleys = DOHC, One Came Pulley = SOHC. I could have swore they were DOHC until like 2001.



I read here somewhere that the 2000 model was SOHC but that some 1999 models were also SOHC. I'd go look but I don't have time to do so tomorrow. Wondered if any way existed by VIN check or build date check.

S

#6 DerFahrer

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Posted 22 January 2007 - 11:47 PM

I'm tired of not knowing the answer to this, so I looked it up.

According to my 1999 Subaru full-line brochure... the Legacies had the EJ25D (DOHC 2.5) in 99, which includes the Legacy GTs and the Outbacks. The Forester and Impreza 2.5RS had the EJ251 (SOHC 2.5) in 99. All 2.5s were SOHC from 2000-up.

#7 OB99W

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Posted 23 January 2007 - 05:33 AM

[...]
According to my 1999 Subaru full-line brochure... the Legacies had the EJ25D (DOHC 2.5) in 99, which includes the Legacy GTs and the Outbacks. [...]

It does seem that that all the MY99 Legacies came with the DOHC heads. However, some apparently have the phase-I block, and some the phase-II. Here's info on telling the difference: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71284 My own appears to be a DOHC/phase-II hybrid based on that link, but I'm not tearing into the engine just to verify which block I have :) ).

I wonder if there are any statistics concerning the HG issue on the hybrid engines.

#8 msmithmmx

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Posted 23 January 2007 - 05:57 AM

There is a quick and easy way. The 2.5 has the spark plugs sunken deep into the rocker covers. The 2.2 are right on the top.

#9 OB99W

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Posted 23 January 2007 - 06:09 AM

There is a quick and easy way. The 2.5 has the spark plugs sunken deep into the rocker covers. The 2.2 are right on the top.

True, but misses the point. The question concerns identification of different versions of the 2.5, not the difference between them and the 2.2.

#10 weddes05

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Posted 23 January 2007 - 07:34 AM

I have never once seen a 2.5 sohc in a 99. some people maybe getting confused because there is a 2.2 phase 2 motor that looks just like that the 2.5 sohc. i have read some threads where people try to say it is a phase 2 block with phase 1 pistons but that is only because they switched to a 8 bolt bell in 99. if it is deffinately a 2.5 than it is a dohc for 99. i deal with them all day mon-fri and sell prob 3-5 engines a week.

#11 The Dude

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Posted 23 January 2007 - 05:12 PM

I'm considering purchase of a 99 Legacy Outback. As I understand what I've read here there may be two versions of the 2.5 engine in this car. One a DOHC prone to Head Gasket failures and the other a SOHC less prone to such failures.

Without wasting my time going a distance to physically inspect the engine for which type it is, can I determine from the VIN or build date which type is in the car?

By the way it's only got 49K miles on it for $6700 and appears to be cherry.

HELP!:confused:


THe 1999 Legacy Outback has the DOHC 2.5L engine. There is no question about it. The 1999 Forester had the SOHC 2.5L engine, because it was made in Japan. The American made Legacy did not get the SOHC egine until the next model year (2000).

#12 ccrinc

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Posted 23 January 2007 - 10:23 PM

The '99 Forester was the first to get the EJ25 SOHC. That is most likely the one you have.
The formula of 2 cams per side = DOHC, 1 cam per side = SOHC is the easiest way to tell.

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#13 steamin53

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Posted 24 January 2007 - 01:46 AM

Thanks for all the input. I guess it's settled that it's the DOHC 2.5.

I own a 96 now purchased with close to 180K miles on it and as far as I could tell it never had blown the head gaskets but the engine did knock. I purchased a reman 2.5 from Emily and crew at CCR. Had a valve train noise and the good folks from Denver replaced the engine with another. It's running strong. Thanks CCR. Not often these days that one get's what's promised.

The 99 I'm considering buying really is cherry and only has about 45K miles on it. For $6700 tax and all I'm really tempted to buy it. Hmmmmmmm wonder if there are any overheat sensors on the factory engine. Something like the type that are installed on the remanufactured CCR engine to show if the engine has EVER overheated?

Of course, since I put the first CCR engine in our 96 model I know what's involved in the engine pull. I imagine the head gasket job would be pretty straight forward too if I just did it as a preventive measure.

What's the recommendation you all would make as regards purchase of this 99 Outback given that it too has the 2.5 DOHC engine and is at 45K miles?

#14 OB99W

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Posted 24 January 2007 - 09:02 AM

I have never once seen a 2.5 sohc in a 99. some people maybe getting confused because there is a 2.2 phase 2 motor that looks just like that the 2.5 sohc. i have read some threads where people try to say it is a phase 2 block with phase 1 pistons but that is only because they switched to a 8 bolt bell in 99. if it is deffinately a 2.5 than it is a dohc for 99. i deal with them all day mon-fri and sell prob 3-5 engines a week.

Yes, the MY99 Legacy OB came only with a DOHC 2.5. However...

...are you saying that the MY99 Legacy blocks were all the same? In other words, do you mean that all were 8-bolt, all were phase-I, etc.?

#15 johnceggleston

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Posted 24 January 2007 - 09:37 AM

Yes, the MY99 Legacy OB came only with a DOHC 2.5. However...

...are you saying that the MY99 Legacy blocks were all the same? In other words, do you mean that all were 8-bolt, all were phase-I, etc.?


the trans for early 99MY 2.5L is TZ102Z2DBA, this is the same type as 96 - 98 2.5L. (this ...Z2DBA was also used in 98 2.5L.) the trans for the late 99MY 2.5L is TZ1A2ZJEBA, this , i believe, is the beginning of the 4eat phase II trans. it has the spin-on external trans filter. i don't know if the number of bolts changed, the trans main housing certainly did because of the filter.

they only used this model number for one year. the TZ1A4ZCABA is listed as 00MY 2.5L outback & sus trans with 8 bolt bell housing. the gt trans is ...4ZCAAA; the legacy is ...4ZCACA. these model numbers are close enought that the bell housings are probably all the same, transmissions too for that matter.

some one posted a while back that the last 2 digits in the trans model number mean nothing. just a way to track which vehicle it was installed in.

EDIT:
99 - 01 forester trans is TZ1A3ZC2AA this would appear to be the phase II trans, very silimar to the 2000 outback, legacy, and gt.

hope this helps.

#16 OB99W

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Posted 24 January 2007 - 10:25 AM

the trans for early 99MY 2.5L is TZ102Z2DBA, this is the same type as 96 - 98 2.5L. (this ...Z2DBA was also used in 98 2.5L.) the trans for the late 99MY 2.5L is TZ1A2ZJEBA, this , i believe, is the beginning of the 4eat phase II trans. it has the spin-on external trans filter. i don't know if the number of bolts changed, the trans main housing certainly did because of the filter.

they only used this model number for one year. the TZ1A4ZCABA is listed as 00MY 2.5L outback & sus trans with 8 bolt bell housing.[...]

Thanks, John. The trans on my own '99 OB has an 8-bolt bell housing, and spin-on filter; I know it's a phase-II 4EAT. But that's not what I'm referring to.

I'd like to know about the 2.5L MY99 OB DOHC engines, and I'd appreciate an answer to the question I posed above to weddes05.

#17 DerFahrer

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Posted 24 January 2007 - 11:19 PM

I have never once seen a 2.5 sohc in a 99. some people maybe getting confused because there is a 2.2 phase 2 motor that looks just like that the 2.5 sohc. i have read some threads where people try to say it is a phase 2 block with phase 1 pistons but that is only because they switched to a 8 bolt bell in 99. if it is deffinately a 2.5 than it is a dohc for 99. i deal with them all day mon-fri and sell prob 3-5 engines a week.


I know for a fact that 99 Impreza 2.5RS's have EJ251s, or early SOHC 2.5 engines. I've seen plenty of them.

I was under the impression that ALL USDM EJ engines were Phase II for 99, but I can't confirm that.

#18 weddes05

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Posted 25 January 2007 - 08:01 AM

i dont know for sure that the 99 would be classified as the phase 2 block, just because it is an 8 bolt? it does still have the phase one pistons with the square valve releifs. 96-98 were all 4 bolt and the 99s were 8 bolt. I have encountered a few 4 bolt motors bolted fast to a 8 bolt trans, just pulled one the other day in an impreza that was too low of mileage to have been replaced.....just think it is subarus trying to finish off the last of their stock for the line change.

The JEBA trans is deff an 8 bolt as well as the 2.2 JEAA trans, and yes they are some of the first phase 2 style spin on filter transmissions.

#19 ccrinc

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Posted 25 January 2007 - 09:11 PM

There are more differences than just the 8 bolt bell housing. That block is rear thrust vs. center thrust in the 4 bolt.

There are also about 6 different types of pistons used between late '95 and '99 in both the DOHC and SOHC. (Don't quote me on "6"...but I know it's more than 2 or 3. We have different shelves for each style.)

If I could get away from the front desk and the phones for more than 3 minutes at a time, I might actually get some hands-on time like I used to. I miss it. :-\

Between '90 and '99 there were only 5 different blocks, if you don't count late Loyales:
EJ22
EJ22 turbo
EJ18
EJ25 DOHC center thrust
EJ25 SOHC rear thrust

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#20 svxpert

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Posted 25 January 2007 - 10:00 PM

<<Between '90 and '99 there were only 5 different blocks, if you don't count late Loyales:
EJ22
EJ22 turbo
EJ18
EJ25 DOHC center thrust
EJ25 SOHC rear thrust>>

:confused: how about the EF12 and the EG33?

#21 DerFahrer

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Posted 25 January 2007 - 10:07 PM

The EF12 in the Justy is a completely different animal, I don't think I have to tell you that ;)

The EG33 is just an EJ22 with two extra cylinders, seven mains, I believe #4 is thrust.

So Emily, if it's a SOHC EJ25, it's automatically a Phase II?

#22 pearlm30

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Posted 26 January 2007 - 09:26 AM

so can I just put a 95 or 96 2.2 engine into a 99 legacy outback? What are the 8 bolts vs 4 bolts you guys are talking about:rolleyes: ?







The EF12 in the Justy is a completely different animal, I don't think I have to tell you that ;)

The EG33 is just an EJ22 with two extra cylinders, seven mains, I believe #4 is thrust.

So Emily, if it's a SOHC EJ25, it's automatically a Phase II?



#23 Distance Commuter

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Posted 26 January 2007 - 10:28 AM

...Between '90 and '99 there were only 5 different blocks, if you don't count late Loyales:
EJ22
EJ22 turbo
EJ18
EJ25 DOHC center thrust
EJ25 SOHC rear thrust ... Emily...


Emily,
Can you post a link to a good chart or table defining/describing the different engine types (not just the '99's)? I've been hanging here for a while on and off, and can see that the folks referring to these things must be getting their information from somewhere...
Thanks!

#24 WAWalker

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Posted 26 January 2007 - 11:18 AM

There were 5 different part #'s for the DOHC 2.5L engines from '97-'99. Now Subaru is selling two different short blocks as replacements.

Basicly there are two (2) EJ25 DOHC blocks:
Four bolt, center thrust carnk.
Eight bolt, rear thrust carnk.

Will post more info shortly.

#25 WAWalker

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Posted 26 January 2007 - 11:47 AM

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

This is straight from SOA TSB. This is probably wear the idea of a "Hybrid" 2.5L came from. Unlike the new bare boneshort blocks that could be purcased through the dealers, these rebuilt short blocks come with oil pan, water pump, thermostate and houseing, and oil pump, thus making them "Hybrids".?

Anywhoo..................There is the application chart for your '97-'99 DOHC 2.5L engines.

Then in '99 production of the SOHC engines started. I still don't have all the specifics on what got the 2.2L SOHC and what got the 2.5L SOHC.




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