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18 replies to this topic

#1 SOOBOUTLAW

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Posted 08 February 2007 - 08:34 PM

When you put blocks between the unibody and crossmember, tranny mount, etc., do you put blocks where the leading rods bolt to the unibody or do you just adjust them to work? (In case nobody knows what I'm talking about, the leading rod (as Haynes calls it), is that bar which bolts to the control arm and the sway(stabilizer) bar is attached). EA81 type chassis.

#2 Uberoo

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Posted 08 February 2007 - 10:31 PM

You can put blocks to space the leader bar away from the body.Works just fine for street duty and light offroading.Or you can extend leader bar(stronger).Puting a spacer works until it rips out of the body...:dead:

#3 Phizinza

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Posted 08 February 2007 - 11:29 PM

Basiclly most just put three blocks on either side and drop that whole plate.

#4 SOOBOUTLAW

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Posted 08 February 2007 - 11:53 PM

You can put blocks to space the leader bar away from the body.Works just fine for street duty and light offroading.Or you can extend leader bar(stronger).Puting a spacer works until it rips out of the body...:dead:


Wouldn't a longer leader bar cause a pivot action and push the hub foreward when the suspension compresses?

#5 baccaruda

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Posted 08 February 2007 - 11:55 PM

you should drop the leading bar/strut rod.
The control arm (to which it attaches) is dropped with the crossmember.. which means that if the strut rod and the control arm are not the same distance from the body, then the strut rod will affect the angle at which the control arm attaches to the crossmember.
If the strut rod is attached too high (with a smaller lift block) then the control arm will be pulled backwards.
If the strut rod is attached too low (with a taller lift block) then the control arm will be pushed forward.

#6 SOOBOUTLAW

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Posted 09 February 2007 - 12:29 AM

Cool, I already got some scrap block ready to drill out for dropping the bar. I didn't expect just a front end only lift to be so much more work than a rear 'clock the torsion bars and drive for a long time without any problems' deal. But, most of the maintainance work on my rig is up front.(STOCK.)

#7 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 09 February 2007 - 12:54 AM

Most of the experienced lift builders, such as the PK lift, etc use blocks that are 1" shorter on the leading rod plates. Simply because you can without hurting anything, and keeping those plates as far up as possible is benneficial.

GD

#8 monstaru

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Posted 09 February 2007 - 02:49 AM

ok mate. here is where i stop you. have you ever ripped a spacer,block out of the body?
until you have tried these things,i suggest you keep your"opinions" to yourself.experience is what helps others not injure themselves.
i don't care what mechanical theory you are working with,experience is what helps people not get hurt.
should i say it again?:grin:



You can put blocks to space the leader bar away from the body.Works just fine for street duty and light offroading.Or you can extend leader bar(stronger).Puting a spacer works until it rips out of the body...:dead:



#9 SOOBOUTLAW

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Posted 10 February 2007 - 12:55 PM

Most of the experienced lift builders, such as the PK lift, etc use blocks that are 1" shorter on the leading rod plates. Simply because you can without hurting anything, and keeping those plates as far up as possible is benneficial.

GD


So, I can drop the leading rod plates 1" less and no problems? I'm doing a 2" lift, and I have some 1x2" I can use for the plates.

#10 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 10 February 2007 - 01:22 PM

So, I can drop the leading rod plates 1" less and no problems? I'm doing a 2" lift, and I have some 1x2" I can use for the plates.


Yeah - the PK lift that many use is that way. The 3" kit has 2" blocks for the leading rod plates. Just make sure you use 1/4" wall channel.

GD

#11 WoodsWagon

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Posted 10 February 2007 - 04:26 PM

Tie the 3 blocks together with some steel bracing. You will rip the captured nuts out of the body if you don't. It's way easier to figure out how to tie the lift blocks together than to figure out how to drill holes through the body and weld patches in to replace what was ripped off.

What happens when you have 3 individual blocks is that when you hit something with a front wheel, even at low speeds, the radius rod pushes back, the blocks topple, and rip the nuts out of the body.

#12 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 10 February 2007 - 05:02 PM

I've never had that happen, and I have 4" blocks back there. Mine are not tied together, but are stronger at the body connection because I use open blocks and don't use bolts that go all the way through. I use the original bolts to hold the block to the body, and a seperate nut/bolt to hold the plate to the blocks. I've hit stuff VERY hard - hard enough to bend my front struts. Ask anyone that saw my rig after the last show :eek:.

The key is to keep the bolts tight at all times. If they get even a little loose you'll rip the metal apart.

GD

#13 SOOBOUTLAW

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Posted 10 February 2007 - 10:41 PM

I've never had that happen, and I have 4" blocks back there. Mine are not tied together, but are stronger at the body connection because I use open blocks and don't use bolts that go all the way through. I use the original bolts to hold the block to the body, and a seperate nut/bolt to hold the plate to the blocks. I've hit stuff VERY hard - hard enough to bend my front struts. Ask anyone that saw my rig after the last show :eek:.

The key is to keep the bolts tight at all times. If they get even a little loose you'll rip the metal apart.

GD


I am planning to do my strut blocks with original studs in the strut plate and putting new strut studs in the block to bolt to the strut tower. That way I can offset slightly for camber. Would it be a good idea to do every block that way? Haven't drilled any yet cuz I'm rebuilding the front end cuz its the perfect chance to. Still pondering and measuring. And cleaning.

#14 WoodsWagon

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Posted 11 February 2007 - 12:17 AM

I've never had that happen, and I have 4" blocks back there. Mine are not tied together, but are stronger at the body connection because I use open blocks and don't use bolts that go all the way through. I use the original bolts to hold the block to the body, and a seperate nut/bolt to hold the plate to the blocks. I've hit stuff VERY hard - hard enough to bend my front struts. Ask anyone that saw my rig after the last show :eek:.

The key is to keep the bolts tight at all times. If they get even a little loose you'll rip the metal apart.

GD


The first time was an encounter with a stump. Moving slow in high range, caught the stump and it yanked the wheel, crumpled the blocks.

2nd time, one of the bolts dissapeared, other two ripped out. Konrad welded the body back togther after that one.

#15 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 11 February 2007 - 12:41 AM

The first time was an encounter with a stump. Moving slow in high range, caught the stump and it yanked the wheel, crumpled the blocks..


My wheel never yanks - power steering you see.... I have hit things VERY hard. When you hit stuff hard enough to bend the strut like a banana..... I scared my passenger. :rolleyes:

Also there's no way in hell my 1/4" wall blocks would "crumple". Likely they would go through the body like a bullet before that happened. I've seen 3/16" wall blocks get pretty wonky looking however.

2nd time, one of the bolts dissapeared, other two ripped out. Konrad welded the body back togther after that one.


But by your own admission a bolt "dissapeared". Exactly as I claim - if you keep the bolts tight this never happens. It's just one of those things you have to do after every run - tighten the lift bolts. Plus it's much less likely when using the stock short bolts to anchor the blocks to the rails.

GD

#16 WoodsWagon

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Posted 11 February 2007 - 09:50 AM

My wheel never yanks - power steering you see.... I have hit things VERY hard. When you hit stuff hard enough to bend the strut like a banana..... I scared my passenger. :rolleyes:

Also there's no way in hell my 1/4" wall blocks would "crumple". Likely they would go through the body like a bullet before that happened. I've seen 3/16" wall blocks get pretty wonky looking however.
GD


My blocks are about 2" dia aluminum with a bolt hole drilled through the middle. The blocks don't crumple, the body does, which is why the 3 separate block design sucks. If you triangulate them, you change the forces on the body nuts from side push to tension, which they are meant for.

It's easy enough to ad in braces, and it makes the area 100% stonger. Why use a design that's vulnerable to ripping chunks out of the body when you could put a much better setup in and not have to worry about it?

It's not just me who's had this problem, I think it was subarutex who told me where to use a hole saw in the footwells to get in a put replacement nuts and washers in the framerail.. http://www.ultimates...ead.php?t=42681

Loyales all have power steering, but you knew that.

#17 SOOBOUTLAW

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Posted 11 February 2007 - 07:55 PM

So....would attaching the blocks to the chassis with the original hardware, and attaching crossmember, plates, etc. to the blocks would be stronger than longer straight through bolts?

#18 WoodsWagon

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Posted 11 February 2007 - 10:46 PM

So....would attaching the blocks to the chassis with the original hardware, and attaching crossmember, plates, etc. to the blocks would be stronger than longer straight through bolts?


Stronger, no. Much less likely to cause body damage, yes.

#19 SOOBOUTLAW

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Posted 13 February 2007 - 09:13 PM

Would it be fine if I use the stock (or equevelant grade 8) hardware to bolt the blocks to the chassis, and bolt the crossmember, etc to the blocks with separate fasteners? This idea is stuck in my head.




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