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Generation 1, 2, 3 ?


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18 replies to this topic

#1 biffbradford

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Posted 20 November 2003 - 05:52 PM

Who can direct me to a link describing the differences between generation 1, 2, and 3 Subarus? Which cars a which, why, what, etc.

I can't find the right keywords on my internet searches.

jw
milwaukee

#2 MilesFox

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Posted 20 November 2003 - 05:59 PM

try ea71
ea81,
ea82
for gen1, 2, 3, respectively

#3 electryc_monk

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Posted 20 November 2003 - 06:31 PM

Dude - Fox, I think you miss understood him.

Gen 1 is the EA82 logo in the casting of the head (next to exhaust port)

Gen 2 is the same but, with an underline

Gen 3 is the same but in a box


is *THAT* what you were hunting for?

someone has a picture diagram in their album but i don't have that in memory sorry or i'd link you to it.

#4 Skip

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Posted 20 November 2003 - 06:36 PM

I don't think he is asking about heads but if so here is the chart Monkster refers to
Posted Image

Here is the URL if you want to book mark it
http://www.westol.com/neper/EAhead.jpg

#5 MilesFox

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Posted 20 November 2003 - 06:37 PM

there used to be a post about "gen3" a in reference to ea82's
so thats where i'm coming from

#6 electryc_monk

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Posted 20 November 2003 - 06:43 PM

wouldn't the EJ = Gen 3


IF so my bad Fox. :-p

#7 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 20 November 2003 - 06:53 PM

Pretty sure he's refering to Generations of cars, not heads

Also - the engines are only a rough estimate, as there's a mix/match in some gens. What this really refers to is the body style of the car.

Gen 1 = All 1979 and older models back to 19?? (fill this in you really old school guys). And 1980 and 1981 Brats as well.

Gen 2 = All 1980-1984 Wagons, Coupes, and Sedans. All 1982-1987 Brats. All 1980-89 hatchbacks.

Gen 3 = All 1985 - 1994 Wagons (DL, GL , GL-10, whatever), Loyales, 3 doors, sedans, etc (anything with an EA82 engine)

GD

#8 Twowagons

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Posted 20 November 2003 - 07:18 PM

Ok lets see if I can confuse the matter some more. Does all this mean that my 82 Gl wagon is a 2nd Generation ea-82?

#9 MilesFox

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Posted 21 November 2003 - 09:52 PM

that is the generation that falls into the "gen 2" category. its the first design for that particular body on the wagon, but its the second generatoon of body for the brat, but its the same platform as the 82 wagon. does that sound confusing to YOU

the later hatches, non 4wd, has an ea71 motor, but its really a 2nd generation ea71, more like an ea81. but the heads are ea71. but the other parts are ea81.

ea82s arent so mixed and mathed

#10 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 21 November 2003 - 10:04 PM

If you have an 82 wagon with an EA82, then it didn't come that way stock. The EA82 was not put into any car until 85. Likely that the engine was still under development, if even that, in '82.

Your car is a Gen 2 with a Gen 3 engine. Possible to build, but never done from the factory.

GD

#11 biffbradford

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Posted 22 November 2003 - 04:30 PM

Originally posted by GeneralDisorder
Pretty sure he's refering to Generations of cars, not heads

Also - the engines are only a rough estimate, as there's a mix/match in some gens. What this really refers to is the body style of the car.

Gen 1 = All 1979 and older models back to 19?? (fill this in you really old school guys). And 1980 and 1981 Brats as well.

Gen 2 = All 1980-1984 Wagons, Coupes, and Sedans. All 1982-1987 Brats. All 1980-89 hatchbacks.

Gen 3 = All 1985 - 1994 Wagons (DL, GL , GL-10, whatever), Loyales, 3 doors, sedans, etc (anything with an EA82 engine)

GD



Alright. That helps.

Now, regarding the heads. WHat are the differences in the construction of the heads between generation 1, 2, and 3?

The reason I ask, is that in the watercooled VW world the terms A1, A2, A3, etc are described in depth in various FAQ's, but I can't find FAQ's on Subaru regarding the terms that seem to be so commonly used.

jw
milwaukee

#12 TheSubaruJunkie

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Posted 22 November 2003 - 04:56 PM

Gen3 would be reffering to EA82 between 1985 to 1990. Would also include Loyales up until '92 or whenever.

We try to associate them with the engine codes. EA71, EA81, EA82, then anything after that is EJ series, and that is handled by the other forum.

If your car is a '82, then it has a EA81 and is a Gen2.

-Brian

#13 MilesFox

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Posted 22 November 2003 - 10:26 PM

all of the ea81(1800cc ohv[pushrods]) are of the same construction(from subaru, that i know of) although there are several aftermarket versions designed for aircraft applications.
but the exception from subaru is the ea81t(turbo heads) the valve cover is shaped somewhat differently on the corner, the injectors fit in bosses on the head, and the turbo side is tapped for an oil and coolant lines.

then there is the ea71(1600) from the 70's thru 84 era. from 85 and later hatch backs, the ea71 has a fatter case to accept ea81 parts(waiter pump, the case is wider to fit the ea81 intake). the heads still have the same dimensions, but it has the bigger valves and intake ports of the ea81. the set i had, i noticed it has a smaller combustion chamber than ea81 heads

the compression ratio on ea81 engines is 8.5:1. the ea81 turbo is 7.7:1. i am not sure of the compression of the ea71, but i think its 9:1 or 9.5:1. you can get a 9:5:1 compression by using the pistons from an ea71 in an ea81(ask qman for the specifics)

the ea82 (1800cc, ohc [timing belts]) has pretty much the same design on carb and spfi(single port) the only reql difference is the fittings for emissions.

the turbo and mpfi(xt models) use a dual port design, they are of the same construction, but the turbo has the oil and coolant line fittings.

the carb models have 8.5:1, the spfi has 9.5:1 the turbos have 7.7:1 compression ratios. there may be differences between years though, and there are a few different cam profiles.

and there is the chart mentioned for the turbo heads.

i think there was may be different designs for japanese models, but i dont know.

this is the extent i know of, some of it could stand to be corrected, but i hope it helps. other board members may know more specifically about what i have mentioned

#14 WagonsOnly

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Posted 23 November 2003 - 01:32 AM

Gen-1 Soobs (for the generally accepted Gen 1 body style) go back to 1972 for the GSR coupe and 1973 for the other models. Subaru The EA63 (1.4L) and EA71 (1.6L) were used in most of these cars. Previous models were the FF-1, FFE, and Star, from 1970 to 1972 though the FFE label I believe (ask Bajavwnsoobnut) was used later on. Their engine displacements were 1000cc, 1100cc, and 1300cc, depending on year and trim. Moosens has the engine codes. I think I do too, I'll look them out for you if you're interested. The EA71 engine was used in Gen 1 cars and Gen 2 vehicles until the last hatch in the States was sold, in 1989. The first EA71s appeared in the MY75 4WD wagons. The EA81 was used in Gen 2 cars except hatches (in which the EA71 was used exclusively). The EA82 engine, and turbo wariants, were used in "Gen 3" cars:
1985-89 DL wagon/sedan/3-door coupe
1985-89 GL (same styles)
1985-89 GL-10 (sedan/wagon only)
1985 Turbo Traction (same as GL-10)
1990-94 Loyale sedan/wagon
1990-92? Loyale 3-door coupe
1988-89 RS 3-door coupe
1985-89.5 RX 3-door and sedan, both body styles were not available every year
All XTs with 4-cylinder engines 1985 on (I don't know what year theydropped the Four).
The Justy used the "EJ12", a 1.2L 3-cylinder, the first US-market Subaru engine that wasn't horizontally opposed since the EK32 (2-cylinder 2-stroke 360cc) used in the 360 and Sambar lines (from 1958-1970; imported '68-'70). The XT6 used the ER27, a horizontally-opposed variant of the EA82 4-cyl with 6 cylinders and 150% of the displacement.

I hope this helps,
Andrew

#15 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 23 November 2003 - 02:50 AM

There's some debate as to weather the Hatch came in a STD in '88 and '89. At least as far as anyone can tell on the board, no one has come up with a STD from those years I think.

Also - a bit confusing there - the hatch did make use of the EA71 technically till 89, but it ALSO used the EA81 - just depends on the model. The 4WD's all had EA81's, unless you go back to the early 80's. I think the GL 2WD's did too. The DL 2WD's might have had either one I suspect. And the STD 4 speed 2WD's definately had the EA71 in them.

Who knows how correct I am - it's very confusing for those later Gen 2's where they were being phased out.

GD

#16 WagonsOnly

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Posted 23 November 2003 - 03:06 AM

I believe the hatch came in a standard model in Canada for those years--but that leads back to the whole Chaser debate. And I thought the hatches only had 1600cc engines in them, thanks for the info and sorry for my misinforming you. (I've never owned a hatch.)

#17 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 23 November 2003 - 03:24 AM

Yeah - hehe - the Chaser.

I don't think the Chaser was a STD tho. But who freakin knows anyway. I REALLY don't want to get into that again.

The STD, from what I can tell was the 2 round headlight model, with no options of any kind, and it had the 4 speed 2WD tranny. I would love to have one just for that grill and headlight setup. I would make it 4WD of course....

GD

#18 WagonsOnly

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Posted 23 November 2003 - 03:41 AM

Do you mean double rounds on each side or 2 round lights total, like the DL 4X wagons? I didn't know the Gen IIs came with double round lights on both sides--I thought that went out with the '79 GLs. Or maybe I read that wrong.

#19 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 23 November 2003 - 04:12 AM

Kindof like the DL 4WD's, but with ROUND lights instead of semi square ones. To my knowledge, this ONLY came on STD's

Like this 1980 for instance:

http://usmb.net/gallery/album72/1980_c

Huh - guess they WERE 4WD - cool.

GD




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