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Welded Rear end on a Daily driver?


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28 replies to this topic

#1 ivantruckman

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 10:13 AM

i live in michigan , flat roads, all i need to do is go thru deep snow, 12 inches is deep for michigan, isnt welding the rear end kinda extream. if i understand correctly it would be like locking the hubs on a jeep, what about the other 95% of the hiway driving (pavement) i would think alot of wheel hop and driveline wear would occur on a daily driver..

#2 subie_newbie

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 10:57 AM

You have a pretty good understanding of the situation.

What you want is a Limited Slip Differential (LSD). Search (function) and you shall find.

#3 mikeshoup

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 11:08 AM

That's why if its a DD, don't weld the rear diff. Or if you do, pull a rear axle until you take it offroading.

Just get an LSD. There's an article in the USRM for converting the turbo 3.7LSD to a 3.9LSD.

#4 ivantruckman

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 11:15 AM

oic , a limited slip diff, understood,( shoupe rocks:headbang:) ill research further, thanks all

#5 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 01:57 PM

Pull axle. LSD's aren't that great for real off-road. Better than nothing, but they are the lazy, expensive, less-effective solution. Welding is better on all accounts.

GD

#6 nipper

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 03:03 PM

But if he pulls an axle (he would have to pull a rear) he would have one wheel drive in the rear, and one in the front, which if i am understanding this is no gain

nipper

#7 soobmater

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 03:50 PM

But if he pulls an axle (he would have to pull a rear) he would have one wheel drive in the rear, and one in the front, which if i am understanding this is no gain

nipper


What he means is pull a axle while on the street, then when you go offroading, put the axle in.. It doesnt take that long to put it in, so its not a big deal. I'm going to weld my rear diff here pretty soon, i'll just put the axle in when im going on a wheeling trip or something, i only live 2 blocks away from the woods so its nice :banana:

#8 88RxTuner

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 03:54 PM

Pulling the axle is a solution, yes. It takes care of the binding around corners, and the driveline wear issue...
Nipper, the idea is to pull the axle during your Daily driving experience, then maybe install it again the weekend before you plan on goin wheeling?

Pulling an axle may be fantastic for those who use their daily drivers for regular off-roading.. but when 90% of your driving is done on pavement, is it worth having to tear down every time you want "true" 4wd?

GD... no flames intended here, your "lazy, expensive, less-effective solution" I think is a biased opinion from the point of view of an "off-road" driver. The debate here is for occasional deep snow, not mud slinging and rock crawling...
I happen to have the opinion that when I throttle my RX in the snow, and both my rear wheels spin and send the car into a drift, my LSD is working JUST FINE for the occasion... with the only added expense of using synthetic diff oil, which I would do anyway with an open diff... and I wouldnt say Lazy, just more convenient than, say, waking up to a snowstorm, going outside in the snow, rolling around on the ground for a half hour to install an axle shaft... in the snow... going inside to change clothes from rolling around... in the snow...then driving where I need to go.

#9 nipper

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 04:07 PM

Pulling the axle is a solution, yes. It takes care of the binding around corners, and the driveline wear issue...
Nipper, the idea is to pull the axle during your Daily driving experience, then maybe install it again the weekend before you plan on goin wheeling?

Pulling an axle may be fantastic for those who use their daily drivers for regular off-roading.. but when 90% of your driving is done on pavement, is it worth having to tear down every time you want "true" 4wd?

GD... no flames intended here, your "lazy, expensive, less-effective solution" I think is a biased opinion from the point of view of an "off-road" driver. The debate here is for occasional deep snow, not mud slinging and rock crawling...
I happen to have the opinion that when I throttle my RX in the snow, and both my rear wheels spin and send the car into a drift, my LSD is working JUST FINE for the occasion... with the only added expense of using synthetic diff oil, which I would do anyway with an open diff... and I wouldnt say Lazy, just more convenient than, say, waking up to a snowstorm, going outside in the snow, rolling around on the ground for a half hour to install an axle shaft... in the snow... going inside to change clothes from rolling around... in the snow...then driving where I need to go.


Thats what i was sort of getting at, since he did say it was a daily driver, not a daily 4 off roader.

nipper

#10 Numbchux

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 04:11 PM

Pull axle. LSD's aren't that great for real off-road. Better than nothing, but they are the lazy, expensive, less-effective solution. Welding is better on all accounts.

GD


yep.

except it doesn't sound like he's doing any real offroading. just pushing through some deep snow. and 95% of his driving would be ON road.

get an LSD. they're great in the snow!!! and underrated offroad. no, not as good as a welded spool...but still, underrated.

and, get some snow tires. those will help as much as anything.

#11 Hodaka Rider

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 04:35 PM

if i understand correctly it would be like locking the hubs on a jeep,


Can't believe you guys missed this.
No, it's not like locking the hubs on a Jeep. Pulling your 4WD lever up a notch (or pushing the 4WD button on a Loyale) is the same as locking the hubs on a Jeep and putting the Jeep transfer case into 4-Hi. No welding or LSD required to equal the hub locking. Pop her into 4WD, and you're good to go - with good winter tires. If you're mostly on-road and want a little more positive traction, hunt down an LSD and drop it in. If you're mostly off-road, weld 'er up.

#12 [HTi]Dain

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 07:26 PM

I say WELD IT:headbang: , and NO need to pull an axle (that part is overrated). I've been drving my wagon with a welded rear-end daily. It handles great on the road, it doesn't "hop around"; but sure, it binds up in parking lots. Sometimes its fun though, becausd it will squak, and people look. But thats just me. Of course if you're in the snow, the tires will just slip on the ice/snow anyway, and I dont think it'll bind. Although, an LSD would probably handle better in case of a slide, or (intentional or not) drift. You would have more control, I do believe.

#13 RavenTBK

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 09:51 PM

[quote name=''[HTi]Dain'] I've been drving my wagon with a welded rear-end daily. It handles great on the road' date=' it doesn't "hop around"; but sure, it binds up in parking lots.[/QUOTE']What size tires are you running? Those of us with the big ones are more likely to shear off an axle stub with a welded diff. (30s here)

#14 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 10:00 PM

What size tires are you running? Those of us with the big ones are more likely to shear off an axle stub with a welded diff. (30s here)


Or crack an axle cup. I've blown 2 on pavement with 28's.

And it takes all of 5 to 10 minutes to install or remove an axle.

The LSD's don't work well with large tires. The friction plates in them weren't designed for large tires. If all you are doing is snow and occasional "off-road" then you don't need anything. Open diffs will work fine if you know how to drive.

GD

#15 Numbchux

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 10:47 PM

The LSD's don't work well with large tires. The friction plates in them weren't designed for large tires. If all you are doing is snow and occasional "off-road" then you don't need anything. Open diffs will work fine if you know how to drive.

GD


again, who said anything about large tires?

#16 Turbone

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 10:48 PM

I was out today at Evans Crk and it didnt take me long to break a rear axle cup. It might have been weakened from the previous trip out, but it still broke on the trail. 3WD cannot get me up 311 unfortunatly.
And as for driving around on pavement with a welded rear diff? I dont advise it. I also toasted my tranny today, could be due to the fact I drive the rig to all the trails I off road on. I've put a few thousand miles on it with the welded diff and it finally killed the tranny.

#17 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 19 February 2007 - 10:53 PM

again, who said anything about large tires?


The original poster has been asking about a "lifted" rig as a daily driver in other threads. This thread is just an extension of sorts I think. He didn't mention it, but I'm pretty sure that was the intention..... for the record though I wouldn't run welded with regular tires either, but it may be alright for some.

GD

#18 zyewdall

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Posted 20 February 2007 - 12:40 AM

and, get some snow tires. those will help as much as anything.


Yeah -- if you aren't going to put good snowtires on it, don't even bother getting a 4 wheel drive at all. If you've got bald tires that won't grip the snow, does it matter if it's one wheel drive, two wheel drive, or three wheel drive? (unless you have locking front and rear diffs like unimogs have, or some really fancy computer traction control like audi's or such, it's never really 4 wheel drive). Bad tires is a large part of the problem of most of the SUV's (suddenly upsidedown vehicals) that I see stuck or flipped.

#19 Turbone

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Posted 20 February 2007 - 01:37 AM

Yeah -- if you aren't going to put good snowtires on it, don't even bother getting a 4 wheel drive at all. If you've got bald tires that won't grip the snow, does it matter if it's one wheel drive, two wheel drive, or three wheel drive? (unless you have locking front and rear diffs like unimogs have, or some really fancy computer traction control like audi's or such, it's never really 4 wheel drive). Bad tires is a large part of the problem of most of the SUV's (suddenly upsidedown vehicals) that I see stuck or flipped.


Naw, thats usually due to driver error:lol:

#20 zyewdall

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Posted 20 February 2007 - 01:44 AM

Naw, thats usually due to driver error:lol:


Yeah.... the first error being not buying a subaru.

#21 970subaru

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Posted 20 February 2007 - 03:12 AM

no, the error being driving too fast for the conditions, not keeping a safe following distance and subsequently slamming on the brakes, etc. seen it done in soobs. in fact I was rear ended by an ea81 wagon a couple weeks ago.:rolleyes:

#22 joostvdw

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Posted 20 February 2007 - 06:04 PM

since we're more or less discussing LSD's here, what will I notice if I mount one on my FT4WD XT? Of course, I don't off-road it and I don't rally it either, only street-driving. Will I notice anything at all? I am known for my "sporty" driving though ;)

#23 Numbchux

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Posted 21 February 2007 - 01:31 AM

since we're more or less discussing LSD's here, what will I notice if I mount one on my FT4WD XT? Of course, I don't off-road it and I don't rally it either, only street-driving. Will I notice anything at all? I am known for my "sporty" driving though ;)


truth is....probably not much. because of the open center diff, when it really matters, all the power goes to the front anyway (accel out of a corner). but if you lock the center in the snow or dirt....oh man is it fun :banana:

#24 Subarutex

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Posted 21 February 2007 - 09:59 PM

Can't believe you guys missed this.
No, it's not like locking the hubs on a Jeep. Pulling your 4WD lever up a notch (or pushing the 4WD button on a Loyale) is the same as locking the hubs on a Jeep and putting the Jeep transfer case into 4-Hi. No welding or LSD required to equal the hub locking. Pop her into 4WD, and you're good to go - with good winter tires. If you're mostly on-road and want a little more positive traction, hunt down an LSD and drop it in. If you're mostly off-road, weld 'er up.


Ditto.

I was out today at Evans Crk and it didnt take me long to break a rear axle cup. It might have been weakened from the previous trip out, but it still broke on the trail. 3WD cannot get me up 311 unfortunatly.
And as for driving around on pavement with a welded rear diff? I dont advise it. I also toasted my tranny today, could be due to the fact I drive the rig to all the trails I off road on. I've put a few thousand miles on it with the welded diff and it finally killed the tranny.


I don't believe the fact the rear diff was welded led to the destruction of your tranny. Dollars to donuts it was the rear output that went tits up. The P/T trannies just don't have the strength in the rear output thats needed to support 100% of the power.

When/if I ever go Tcased (not very likely) I'll have the tranny inards cryo treated. While it may not be 100% proven to work, it certainly can't hurt... Anything to help push the inevitable back from happening is a good thing.

And, for the record of driving on a welded diff. I do it, have been doing it for 3+ years now. No broken axles.

I attribute this to 3 things:
1st, I've basically retaught myself how to drive with it. Take extra wide turns into parking spaces, etc...
2nd, My rear diff hanger has been reinforced. This helps keep the diff from twisting and potentially causing bad angles on the axles.
3rd, my lift is fairly mild. My axles are fairly level, with not a whole lot of angle.

#25 jeffast

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Posted 22 February 2007 - 01:25 PM

since we're more or less discussing LSD's here, what will I notice if I mount one on my FT4WD XT? Of course, I don't off-road it and I don't rally it either, only street-driving. Will I notice anything at all? I am known for my "sporty" driving though ;)

truth is....probably not much. because of the open center diff, when it really matters, all the power goes to the front anyway (accel out of a corner). but if you lock the center in the snow or dirt....oh man is it fun :banana:

wrong, i have a lsd in my xt-6 ft4wd 5mt and i noticed a huge differance the torque split on the ft manuel trannies is floating i have no trouble lighting the rear end up from a STOP in snow while the front doesn't spin, the centerdiff is a true open diff on xt's at least




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