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transmission compatibility


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44 replies to this topic

#1 eagleb

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Posted 22 February 2007 - 12:17 PM

I have a 96 OBW, 113k with a 4eat. 3rd seems to be a little weak, and I'd like to source a replacement (used) 4eat. I just had the headgaskets done, and would like to know the compatible model of car and years of 4eat's for a 96 OBW AT in case the tranny decides to fail in the future.

Any help you all can give me is greatly appreciated.



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#2 nipper

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Posted 23 February 2007 - 01:14 AM

http://www.main.expe...rans_decode.jpg

dont know if that will help.

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#3 Manarius

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Posted 23 February 2007 - 09:25 AM

The only issue as far as I can see, would be making sure that the new tranny has the same final drive as the old one so that you don't have to replace the rear diff.

#4 grossgary

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Posted 23 February 2007 - 10:35 AM

there are other concerns - i think it's 1999 when the bellhousing changed, so you'd want to figure out that year and probably avoid anything that year and after. technically that can be overcome with not much effort, but i think you're looking for a direct fit anyway.

#5 eagleb

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Posted 23 February 2007 - 11:23 AM

I guess I'm looking for a "plug and play" transmission...
If and when the swap has to be done, I am definitely going to have S.I.R. do the work, and I want the swap to be as simple as possible. Sorry, I'm not familiar with the 4eat, so a lot of my questions are very green.
Thanks for the input, I'll do a search of this forum next to find out where to find a good used trans, I guess if all else fails I can just start searching jys for a trans from a 96 OBW 2.5 AT... right?

#6 johnceggleston

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Posted 23 February 2007 - 03:19 PM

the trans in your 96 2.5 outback is a TZ102Z2ABA. this is the first year for this trans / diff combination and they used this trans in 2.2L AND 2.5L outbacks in 96. this is the only time a 2.2 L had a TZ102Z2xxx trans.

the 97 2.5L = TZ102Z2CBA and the 98 & 99(early) 2.5L = TZ102Z2DBA are very similar, if not a perfect match. (the BA in the end of the trans model number refer to the model of car the trans was put in, BA=outback, CA=GT legacy, AA=LSi legacy(97 only)).

the critical part of the trans model number is the 7TH position '2'. this characture defines the differential. (after 96 it defines the engine, 2.5L)

if you don't get an exact match on your trans model number, base your decision on the price of the trans plus the TCU, (you may need it , you probably won't if you stick with outback trans). if the trans model number doesn't have the 7th position '2' in it, then plan on buying the matching rear differential as well.

to review, get a 2.5L outback trans 96 - 99(early) with a model number that starts with TZ102Z2..... if it's not a 96 you may need the TCU, but i doubt it.

try looking here: www.car-part.com

#7 eagleb

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Posted 23 February 2007 - 03:41 PM

Excellent,
That's exactly what I was looking for. Thanks for the info. As far as TCUs go, how much should I expect to pay for one (if I end up getting a later model trans)? I'm assuming the TCU has to be from the same year and model soob as the trans

#8 johnceggleston

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Posted 23 February 2007 - 03:50 PM

Excellent,
That's exactly what I was looking for. Thanks for the info. As far as TCUs go, how much should I expect to pay for one (if I end up getting a later model trans)? I'm assuming the TCU has to be from the same year and model soob as the trans


yes, get it from the same car as the trans if possible. you can search www.car-pat.com for the transmission computer as well. prices vary just like for trans. from "too high" to "so cheap it's scarry".

i suggest sorting your search by distance so you look at the ones near by first. a 500$ trans in town may be cheaper than 350$ in texas.

#9 eagleb

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Posted 23 February 2007 - 04:03 PM

Any way to check the reputation of the shops listed on car-parts.com?

#10 johnceggleston

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Posted 23 February 2007 - 05:24 PM

Any way to check the reputation of the shops listed on car-parts.com?


some offer a warranty on the part, 30 and 90 days are not uncommon. very few will pay for labor. most of these large parts are from wrecks and were running at the time of impact. ( i once bought a explorer engine with a parts and labor warranty.)

i would ask the salvage yard about the quality of the part and i would ask your installer to check it before he installs. some of the donor cars are test driven before the parts are pulled. and no body wants the headache of selling a bad part. if they think it's bad they usually will say so.

lower miles are better. and a local gives you the opportunity to talk face to face. generally, they are not looking to cheat you. if you get a bad part, most will make it right. they are in the business to sell parts, not just one trans sitting their back yard that was there when they moved in.

#11 eagleb

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Posted 23 February 2007 - 05:31 PM

Thank you.

At least now I know that if my trans does decide to fail, a donor is never too far away. The cost of a rebuild is quite frightening, and from what I've read here, a (quality) used trans is the way to go. Lets just hope I don't need the replacement anytime soon!

Thanks again for the help, you may be called upon at a later date for further assistance :rolleyes:


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#12 mnwolftrack

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Posted 23 February 2007 - 08:58 PM

I just went through this process last week in my '98 OBW. I got a new transmission reasonably local for $575 shipped with 53k on it. I sought a transmission that had the exact same model # as my original (near the starter). As previously mentioned, try to find something closer to you. I am in the middle of the country, and shipping withini a few hundred miles was about $50-$75 (not worth me driving to pick up). Places on the coasts wanted $175+ for shipping. So, a $350 transmission would have cost me the same as a $500 transmission depending on shipping. Also, if you find a yard that is local enough that you DO want to pick it up, they seem to want your old core. The people who have to ship will probably NOT want your core (I didn't find anyone that wanted the core shipped back). I'd of bought something I could have picked up myself, but I wasn't about to drive 120 miles to pick up a "cheaper" tranny, only to have to drive there again once the old tranny was out and ready to return for the core refund.

You can get just as good of a deal without having to return the core.

#13 grossgary

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Posted 24 February 2007 - 09:24 AM

they are in the business to sell parts, not just one trans sitting their back yard that was there when they moved in.

i'm not one for one sentence commentary, but that's awesome!

#14 eagleb

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Posted 08 March 2007 - 02:21 PM

To be sure I'm not missing anything...

Even if I get a 4eat that doesn't have the matching number, or doesn't have the "2" in the 7th spot, I can find a trans/TCU/rear diff set? Are those the only 3 things I would need?

Sorry, I just don't understand the full setup for the AWD 4eats. I found an impreza 2.5 rs trans/rear diff set for $200 (100k), and wrecked 95 and 96 legacies that still have the AT/TCU/rear diff. Not sure on prices though.

Thanks


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#15 johnceggleston

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Posted 08 March 2007 - 07:12 PM

i think in 99, when they went to the phase 2 trans, the impreza and the legacy 2.2 were the same. but i'm not positive. but these years are too late for your match.

i'd stick to the legacy / outback models. 2.5L car is preferred, 96 - 98 (some early 99). if you get a trans out of a 2.2L car, you will need the rear differential, (unless it just happens to be a 96 2.2L outback with the trans # TZ102Z2ABA.)

these trans should fit:
TZ102Z2ABA = 96 outback (2.2L)
TZ102Z2ABA = 96 outback (2.5L)..... same trans.

TZ102Z2CBA = 97 outback...................may need TCU
TZ102Z2CAA = 97 legacy LSi...............may need TCU
TZ102Z2CCA = 97 legacy GT...............may need TCU

TZ102Z2DBA = 98 outback (early 99).....may need TCU
TZ102Z2DCA = 98 legacy GT...............may need TCU


TZ102ZABAA + 96 legacy (all 2.2L cars except outback)........will need rear diff, maybe TCU
TZ102ZACAA + 97 legacy (2.2L)...........will need rear diff, maybe TCU
TZ102ZACAA + 98 legacy (2.2L)...........will need rear diff, maybe TCU

the 95 legacy 2.2L trans may work, but there were some other changes that took place that year so unless it was free, i'd stick with 96 - 98.
TZ102ZAAAA + 95 legacy (2.2L)...........will need rear diff, probably TCU

i would suggest you search for year and model. find the best deal you can on a 96 outback trans. then look for a 96 GT trans and compare the cost. then look for a 96 LSi trans, then a 97 outback trans, then a 97 GT, then 98... etc. (i think you are going to find more outbacks out there than GT and LSi combined.)

there are lots of things to consider price, shipping cost, mileage. some yards sell them all for cheap 300$ while some charge 1200$ for one with 200k miles. but there are lots of them out there. i'd look for a 96 - 98 outback with 100k or less, close to home. since yours is still running (?), you have some time to shop and wait.

and finally, before you buy, ask for the model number off of the trans you are buying to double check.

#16 eagleb

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Posted 08 March 2007 - 07:56 PM

Thanks John,

I only ask because there are some local trans available, but none are from outbacks.
I've been keeping an eye on car-part.com, they have a couple, but they're pretty far away (and I definitely want mileage lower than or close to my car, 113k). The trans is running pretty well now, albeit with some additives to smooth things up. If the chattering comes back, my timeline will be shortened, but as of right now, the trans should run for at least another few months, if not a year or more.

As far as the trans number goes, a previous reply states it's next to the starter... is that correct? It's the first thing I ask sellers, and they always come back and ask where it's located.

Thanks again, I'll try to stop being such a newbie, and info like this definitely helps.


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#17 johnceggleston

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Posted 08 March 2007 - 08:20 PM

if you stand on the drivers side of the car with the hood up there is an aluminum ID tag mounted on the strut tower. it has engine and trans model numbers, as well as some other stuff. then if you look beyond that to the starter motor below, (follow one of the big black wires from the positive, red, battery post) you'll see the trans number on a white label attached to the bell housing just where the starter is attached. this very close to the rear wall of the engine compartment.

when talking to salvage yards, give them year, make and model of the car, don't cloud the issue with the trans model number. use that only as confirmation once you have decided which one you want. they can't search by trans model number on the software, they have to go look at the trans for a model number. also their software doesn't know that a 97 ...Z2CBA will fit a 96 ...Z2ABA.

if my camera battery charges up before bedtime, i'll add some pics.

Attached Files



#18 johnceggleston

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Posted 09 March 2007 - 02:45 PM

pics

if you stand on the drivers side of the car with the hood up there is an aluminum ID tag mounted on the strut tower. it has engine and trans model numbers, as well as some other stuff. then if you look beyond that to the starter motor below, (follow one of the big black wires from the positive, red, battery post) you'll see the trans number on a white label attached to the bell housing just where the starter is attached. this very close to the rear wall of the engine compartment.

when talking to salvage yards, give them year, make and model of the car, don't cloud the issue with the trans model number. use that only as confirmation once you have decided which one you want. they can't search by trans model number on the software, they have to go look at the trans for a model number. also their software doesn't know that a 97 ...Z2CBA will fit a 96 ...Z2ABA.

if my camera battery charges up before bedtime, i'll add some pics.



#19 eagleb

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Posted 09 March 2007 - 02:47 PM

:clap: awesome. You're making things way too easy for me.

#20 eagleb

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Posted 13 March 2007 - 02:50 PM

John...

I got a quote from a yard on the bottom of the state..
499 delivered for a 96 OB 2.5 trans with 73k.

What questions should I ask about the trans?
Was it driven before the trans was pulled?
How well did it drive?
Any signs of binding in tight turns?
?

Does that sound like a good deal?

Thanks again


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#21 johnceggleston

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Posted 13 March 2007 - 04:20 PM

John...

I got a quote from a yard on the bottom of the state..
499 delivered for a 96 OB 2.5 trans with 73k.
Does that sound like a good deal?


eagle


i doubt you are going to do any better. labor will run 300 - 500$ depending on who does it. so you're back on the road for less than 1000, not bad.

ask what they know about the trans. how was the car it came out of, did they test drive it? how long have they had it, what's the warranty? what if it's bad? do many of the m turn up bad? they probably don't know enough to look for binding.

but...

you can install the trans as is, with new fluid. or swap on your rear extention housing since you know it's good (i'm guessing 1.5 hr labor , maybe more). or if money is no object, go to the dealer and buy a new duty c valve asembly, 115$ (cheaper online), and put in the better looking rear extention housing on your new trans. but again, everything cost money.

ask the shop to look for oil leaks on the rear of the engine, specificly the "oil seperator plate", if it's plastic. the new ones are metal and cost less than 30 - 40$. rear main seal, they don't usually leak, but this is your one chance to replace without pulling the engine.

when i did mine @ 165K, i did replace the oil seperator plate and the rear main seal. i didn't use a new duty c and i wish i had. my total cost for r&r the trans, seperator plate, rear seal, oil pan gasket and fluid was 515$ w/labor (75$/hr, maybe 60$ parts) .

options recap:
duty c solenoid.......(31942AA090 VALVE AY TRANSFER CLUTCH $68 + s&h, on line @ https://www.subaruge..._parts_cat.html) plus gasket
rear main seal
oil seperator plate (baffle?)
oil pan gasket
exhaust gaskets (maybe required)

some of this may be decided easily if you have no more money or if you are selling the car soon. another thing to consider is to buy the used trans and wait for your trans to get worse. waiting 2-3 months to do the swap will spread out you cost somewhat, and may make buying extra parts easier. but if driving the car the way it is makes you crazy, then swap it now.

#22 eagleb

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Posted 13 March 2007 - 04:33 PM

Good to know.

I'll be taking the car to richierich for the swap, I'm going to PM him with the trans details.

If I do buy this trans (quite possible), I will keep it around until my trans gives me a reason to swap it.

When I brought the car to richierich for the HG replacement, he refilled the trans and put an additive in (transX?).
Since then, the car hasn't had any chattering when trying to shift uphill under load from 3-4 or vice versa. However, I know additives are only temporary, and I should expect some more symptoms before too long.

That being said, the chattering seemed to be coming from near the center armrest... Richie drove it and got it to chatter, so he knows what I'm talking about. Does that sound like a rear diff that needs replacing?

I'm going to email the junkyard again and ask some questions, and I'm still waiting to hear about the LSi trans.

I'm going to keep all the trans related questions on this post, and not the speedo post.

Thanks again

eagle

#23 eagleb

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Posted 13 March 2007 - 06:28 PM

Here is the response from the yard...

What do you know about the transmission? It is a used transmission out of a wrecked car that was deemed a total loss by an insurance company.

In what condition was the car it came out of? The car was hit in the left doors.

Did anyone test drive the car before pulling the transmission? Yes, but only at a low speed. 3-5 MPH

How long have you had the transmission? Since 2005

Does it come with any warranty? Yes, 90 day parts replacement warranty. No Labor coverage. A 6 month labor warranty is available for $300.00

What kind of protection do I have if the transmission ends up being bad? We will replace the transmission if it is bad, but unless a labor warranty is purchased at the time of sale, there is no coverage for the installation expense.

Do many of them turn up bad? No, this is not a “fast-mover” for us. This is the reason the price is so low.


Any suggestions on how to proceed?


eagle

#24 johnceggleston

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Posted 13 March 2007 - 08:54 PM

Here is the response from the yard...

What do you know about the transmission? It is a used transmission out of a wrecked car that was deemed a total loss by an insurance company.

In what condition was the car it came out of? The car was hit in the left doors.

Did anyone test drive the car before pulling the transmission? Yes, but only at a low speed. 3-5 MPH

How long have you had the transmission? Since 2005

Does it come with any warranty? Yes, 90 day parts replacement warranty. No Labor coverage. A 6 month labor warranty is available for $300.00

What kind of protection do I have if the transmission ends up being bad? We will replace the transmission if it is bad, but unless a labor warranty is purchased at the time of sale, there is no coverage for the installation expense.

Do many of them turn up bad? No, this is not a “fast-mover” for us. This is the reason the price is so low.


Any suggestions on how to proceed?


eagle

in theory a hit from the side is potentially less damaging to the trans than head on. a friend of mine bought a badly wrecked 99 outback, t-boned from the passenger side, pushed the door in halfway across the passenger seat. the trans worked fine. engine too.

the only problem i see is, your warranty may be gone before you actually install the trans. so you could wait, does he have any others. also there is someone else on the board looking for one i think, i can't remember the year.

from an insurance / warranty point of view, the 300$ is pure profit for them. even if they replace the trans and pay to have it installed they break even. one bad trans gone, one good trans gone, nothing out of pocket. the spend your money on labor.

if you buy the labor warranty, you're spending 300$ as garrantee against about the same labor cost. i doubt they will reimburse the total labor charge, just the r&r for the trans. not engine parts labour or duty c/ extention housing labor. so i don't think i'd buy the labor part of the deal. for 300$ you could get the trans pulled and replaced. the shop will have pity on you by then.

you might ask the board members how many have bought used trans and had them installed only to find it's bad. the response wouldn't be very scientific. but remember, the seller doesn't want any headaches. if he doesn't think it's good he nuts to sell it as good. and finally, these things are pretty hardy. mine came out of a wreck, right front corner, runs great, except the duty c........it's intermittent. that started acting up about 6 months later and i'm hoping for a TCU problem rather than a straight duty c problem. but probably not.

#25 eagleb

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Posted 14 March 2007 - 10:16 AM

There's no way I would pay the $300 labor guarantee, seeing as how it costs 300-400 to swap the trans at a reputable shop.

The trans sounds like it should work well, I just hate the unknown. I've only had the car a year and I've already replaced the HG, now it's trans time.

It sounds like a good trans to me, lower miles, side impact, with 90 day parts replacement warranty.

I'm going to wait a bit, just so I don't burn through the parts warranty (the trans should still be there, it has been since 2005).

Do you think it would be a good idea if I could get my mechanic to check up with the yard and ask questions about the trans? After all, he will be the one installing the thing.

As for right now, I'm in a holding pattern. I should have it figured out before too long.




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