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Failed Smog


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21 replies to this topic

#1 Buddy

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Posted 26 February 2007 - 11:01 PM

well we took the GL-10 in for smog and it passed everything except the emissions which resulted in a gross polluter (cali residents u prolly know bout this) anyway the smog tech told me that the reason it was a gross polluter was that it is running too rich which in turn its hurting the mpg and its causing it to emit 2 much emissions also he said he couldnt read the timing because the timing marks are erased :confused: he said to repair all those things and bring it back but my ?s are whats making it run rich and how can i fix that and how can i fix those timing marks so that it could pass. everything passed except those things mentioned above. its the 86 GL-10 Turbo Wagon please help because i need it to pass smog soon so that i can get my 2008 sticker. immediate response of any kind will be greatly appreciated.

Later

Buddy

#2 misledxcracker

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Posted 26 February 2007 - 11:34 PM

they BS with that timing crap. same here, except im in LA.

got a CEL on the car? wait, they instantly eliminate your inspection if it's on.. hmmm

o2 sensor? cts? bad injector? i havent dealt with rich running before

...i say look around, pay that old smog shop a little "extra" and have them "pass" it for you ;) yes, it's still doable even with the new machinery... but you didnt hear it from me ;)

#3 kayakertom

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Posted 27 February 2007 - 04:21 AM

In October, it took me 5 trips to DEQ in Oregon to finally pass emissions with my 87 dl wagon. New plugs, cap, rotor and a fresh oil change helps. Can you do your own timing? Clean up the timing marks on the flywheel through the access area with a wire brush and use white-out to clearly mark the correct timing mark.

#4 beataru

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Posted 27 February 2007 - 02:51 PM

Get some brake cleaner and, with the car running spray all of the vacuum connections. this could be as simple as a vacuum leak, or it could be an exhaust leak before the o2 sensor, I have one and it runs really really rich, the exhaust sucks in air every time the exhaust valve closes so it thinks its running lean, my gas mileage is preety bad for a little wagon.

#5 daeron

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Posted 27 February 2007 - 03:05 PM

Jiggle the CTS connector with the engine running and see if the RPMs change or if you hear any difference.

The guy in the garage probably just had no clue where to read the timing marks, as they are under your spare tire.... :lol: BUT making sure your timing is set well is important.

If all else fails, and your car is simply over-polluting, an EASY way to drastically reduce emissions is to get about a half a gallon or more of Denatured Alcohol from the paint supply aisle at home depot, run your gas tank to darn near empty (bring a couple gallons in a can) Add the alcohol to almost NO fuel (as little gas as you can) and go for a quick, hot run right before you go into the emissions testing. Denatured alcohol took our 87 ford van with a 351 windsor in it from GROSSLY over the numbers to virtually zero emissions. When you are done, drive a little bit away from the station and add the gasoline. Or just go fill up. The gas can is mostly to help avoid potentially running dry while trying to burn as much fuel as possible before adding alcohol.

I would appreciate anyone else posting to say "yah, running alcohol like this can't really hurt anything" because while _I_ know it is true, it certainly does sound like a "whoa there!! i dunno if i wanna do that to MY car, thank you very much" kind of thing :grin:

#6 Gloyale

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Posted 27 February 2007 - 03:15 PM

You need to see if it has trouble codes. The ECU is under steering column. It has a small hole in front with a light in it. Turn the key on and look at the light. If it blinks a steady 1-4 blinks, you have no active codes. You may have stored codes that can be output by connecting the single pole black connectors under the ECU.

If it blinks a series of long an short flashes those are a trouble code/codes.
Long flash is the first number, short flashes are the second. I.E: 2 long, 3 short= code 23. see if you get any codes and then come back and tell us what they are.

The dumb mechanic was probably looking at the crank pulley for timing marks. They are actually on the flywheel, visible by removing spare tire, and then the little rubber cover at back of engine. There is a green connector under the dash by the ECU, near the black one mentioned earlier. It should be connected while setting timing. Also disconnect the Vaccum line from distributor and plug it for timing. The green check connector is also used for reading codes and diagnostic. more on that later.

#7 Buddy

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Posted 25 March 2007 - 07:01 PM

yeah the ECS lite (aka check engine) is on i dont have the knowledge to pull codes honestly speaking. so can anyone help me :D

#8 Sonicfrog

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Posted 25 March 2007 - 07:59 PM

yeah the ECS lite (aka check engine) is on i dont have the knowledge to pull codes honestly speaking. so can anyone help me :D


Reread the post above. The great thing about this car is that the code are displayed without the need of a special gadjet.

I have an 87 GL-10 that also wouldn't smog. Replacing the Ox sensor and manifold temp sensor did the trick for me... just barely. How hot does the engine normaly run? If it runs on the hot side, the emissions will be thrown off quite a bit. I found out later my radiator was not keeping the engine cool enough, which will make the ECU, the brain that controls the fuel mixture and injector timing, adjust the fuel mixure to rich to try and get the optimal preformance power wise.

#9 daeron

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Posted 25 March 2007 - 09:52 PM

yeah the ECS lite (aka check engine) is on i dont have the knowledge to pull codes honestly speaking. so can anyone help me :D



Re Read your thread. The answers are already there.

#10 psylosyfer

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Posted 25 March 2007 - 11:33 PM

Is it a carburated car?

#11 Erik R

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Posted 26 March 2007 - 01:36 AM

Buddy, Just so you won't feel so bad; I failed smog on mny '91 Loyale on Saturday............................Almost passed, though. Only off 200 points.
I have 313K, though :eek: .

#12 Erik R

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Posted 03 June 2007 - 01:29 AM

Went in on the holiday weekend, still failed; even with a new cat...
Still off by 150 pts on HC's....................
I guess there isn't much else to try...............When they treadmill our cars like that (they never did this when they were new cars), the fuel enrichment seems to kick in....
I got one shop to do a "sniff only" just to see if it would have passed that way and it was darn close. Passed idle, but not cruise speed.
Don't forget, they test your gas cap too...........:eek:

#13 misledxcracker

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Posted 03 June 2007 - 02:31 AM

I dont know... I passed the emissions part of the CA smog test with my EA82... but I failed the ignition timing test. Timing was fine, mind you...

I personally said screw it, drove to Arizona and registered it there... No bother from the cops yet, not much they can do, I claim that I drive there every week, they dont say anything else :lol:

#14 TheSubaruJunkie

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Posted 03 June 2007 - 02:53 AM

Thats harder for us up here in Nor-Cal to do. Nevada is close, but their smog is probably just as bad.

-Brian

#15 NV Zeno

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Posted 03 June 2007 - 08:33 AM

Thats harder for us up here in Nor-Cal to do. Nevada is close, but their smog is probably just as bad.

-Brian


Only in the two counties where there are lots of people (Clark and Washoe (Vegas and Reno)), and only the "metro" areas of those. Otherwise no test whatsoever. I've heard that in the two smog areas that the numbers are different from California's, one lower and one higher. Strictly sniffers, no dyno. Been so long since I've had to test a car I can't recall exactly. I can probably find the numbers upon request.

My 2 bucks

#16 Gloyale

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Posted 03 June 2007 - 11:29 AM

I had a Carbed car that failed repeatedly here is Wisconsin(dyno w/ sniffer). Tune ups brought it really close. But it wouldn't pass until I disassembled the disty and lubed up the mechanical advance weights in the bottom part of it. They were stick and leaving the timing advanced during deceleration. I discovered it using a timing light and watching the advance while raising and dropping RPMs. It was taking like 10 seconds after returning to idle RPMs before the timing would drop back to the 8 degree setting at idle. After that it passed with a decent margin.

I don't know if this would be relavent to the SPFI cars though?

#17 Nug

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Posted 03 June 2007 - 08:43 PM

Having the timing off certainly would hurt the SPFI cars. It would affect all of them, for that matter.

You can get it to pass. Check the timing, make sure it's running on all cylinders, and if all else fails, do the denatured alcohol thing.

It won't hurt anything as long as you don't let it sit in there for weeks. Pour it into a nearly empty tank, drive it to the tester, get your good car award, drive it around till it's nearly out, and refuel. Problem solved.

#18 Gloyale

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Posted 03 June 2007 - 08:56 PM

I don't know if this would be relavent to the SPFI cars though?


What I meant by this is that it appears there is no mechanical advance set up in the SPFI/MPFI(2nd gen) distributors. I however have never taken one all the way apart. But no mechanism for advance is in the diagrahms

The base timing was correct on my car. But the advance curve was screwed up and stuck from the weights being dry and crusty.

#19 Cougar

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Posted 04 June 2007 - 12:51 PM

yeah the ECS lite (aka check engine) is on i dont have the knowledge to pull codes honestly speaking. so can anyone help me :D


You don't really need much experience to possibly fix this if you will follow the advice given here. In post number 6 Gloyale has told you how to read the important codes that are stored in the ECU. There may be more than one code involved. Write the codes down and let us know what they are then we can help you further with this. I'm surprised that the test station went on with the testing with the CEL light on. Usually that must be off before testing is even begun. Some states allow that though I think.

Some common problems that can cause a rich mixture are bad plugwires and plugs, a bad coolant temperature sensor (this is different from the gauge sensor), exhaust leak, or a bad O2 sensor.

I used to have a couple of turbo GL-10's and they are a great car.

#20 Gloyale

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Posted 04 June 2007 - 04:45 PM

I'm surprised that the test station went on with the testing with the CEL light on. Usually that must be off before testing is even begun. Some states allow that though I think.


Any thing after 96 I think, whenever they made OBD mandatory the light has to be off. Before that manufacturers had more variations in there systems and the extent of what the system monitors/diagnosis. And what parameters it calls "bad". So becasue of that earlier cars like ours are not automatically failed(or not tested) for an CEL. At least not in all states.

I've seen people have trouble when the testing station person doesn't realize the car is very much pre-OBD2

#21 Buddy

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Posted 04 June 2007 - 06:30 PM

You don't really need much experience to possibly fix this if you will follow the advice given here. In post number 6 Gloyale has told you how to read the important codes that are stored in the ECU. There may be more than one code involved. Write the codes down and let us know what they are then we can help you further with this. I'm surprised that the test station went on with the testing with the CEL light on. Usually that must be off before testing is even begun. Some states allow that though I think.

Some common problems that can cause a rich mixture are bad plugwires and plugs, a bad coolant temperature sensor (this is different from the gauge sensor), exhaust leak, or a bad O2 sensor.

I used to have a couple of turbo GL-10's and they are a great car.

bout 2 weeks ago i went to warm him up and to my surprise the idiot lite was off no where to be found the things i did to it before taking it were the spark plugs, fuel filter and thats just about it. it does have an exhaust leak. i have never changed the plug wires. something that happens is that when i raise the RPMs while its parked is that it has a clunk before the engine accelerates. its idling then i press the gas pedal and it goes clunk vroom. what can that be?

#22 Erik R

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Posted 08 June 2007 - 10:26 PM

Buddy, a hard "ping" when cracking the throttle could be timing is too advanced or just needs to be checked/adjusted. Also, don't forget to unplug green connector near wiper motor (if you have SPFI). Your timing will be "stuck" at 20 deg. advanced if you don't.

I am going to try the denatured alcohol trick tomorrow...........I don't know if that will work if I have too much "blow-by" fumes in my pcv....:eek:

High HC's are tough to beat :mad: .

Remind me why I love these old cars :banana: :headbang:




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