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91 subaru loyale won't start


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33 replies to this topic

#1 rorannerusan

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Posted 10 March 2007 - 01:03 AM

Hi there I am trying to get this subaru going. I read all the post in my other thread subaru loyal wagon won't start just back fires. Thanks to all who posted. The car has 208 thousand miles. everything is set right but the car won't start. I noticed this strange clicking sound coming from underneath the dash and I noticed a red blinking light coming from a box. I also noticed a wierd sound from underneath the hood at the same time sounds like it was coming from fuel injection. Everytime that clicking sound happened that other sound would happen. It would fire but not start. I found 2 relays and one was making the clicking sound. one is round and one is square. When I pulled the fuse for ignition coil/ fuel it stopped clicking light stopped flashing. the round relay has the firing order on it plus a diagram showing 2 numbers connected and one showing a triangle with a forward type slash showing it is off or open between the 2 numbers. What kind of relay is this? I found one at autozone showing a similar diagram that uses the same plug but it is square. Does it matter or not? I was hoping it would work.
Thanx Lee

#2 john in KY

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Posted 10 March 2007 - 06:26 AM

Just guesses but the box with the blinking light is probably the ECU and the relay is the fuel pump relay.

#3 Skip

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Posted 10 March 2007 - 09:07 AM

Your green colored single wire "test mode" connectors are plugged together.

Look under the hood at the driver's side hood hinge.
These should be in this area. Along with a white pair
of connectors.

Plugging either set together is for testing only they should NOT
be left connected when driving.

The ECU located under the st. coluum (you must remove the panel above you knees when driving to see it) has
the 02 monitor light - this light also flashes the codes and is what you are seeing.

Here is an ECU code reading instruction sheet

The ECU will flash stored codes with the white ones plugged.
(above art. says the are black but the SPFI system has white conns)

The green ones get plugged when you set the timing
as it locks the timing at staic (the ecu adjusts the timing as you drive so it must be "locked" to set the intial timing)

As for the no start, do you hear the fuel pump running
when these "clicks" occur?
It should be a "wirring" noise from under the rear.

Have you checked for spark from the coil wire?
IF yes and the answer is yes,
then
Check the screw that holds the rotor to the distributor shaft.

Check for a slipped or broken driver's side belt by watching
the oil pressure gauge(light) while cranking -
if it goes up (out)
the belt is not broken but could have slipped a few teeth -backfiring will result and it may start
and run poorly.

The doubt the square relay you found is a factory relay - the round one is.
I doubt this is your problem.

By pulling the fuse you shut down the system.

#4 rorannerusan

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Posted 10 March 2007 - 10:33 AM

The wirring sound came from underneath the hood. Sounded like a little motor underneath the hood related to fuel injection. car will try to start but not run with gas pedal to the floor. If you let off the gas pedal it will try like it has left over fuel then just cranks no try to start. The wirring sound occured at same time the clicks did. If you want the numbers off of them relays just let me know. I unplugged the square relay next to the round one clicking sound stopped.
plugged back in clicking sound started. felt both the round one was clicking.
Unplugged it and it stopped. clicking sound was spaced. click click off click click. etc.
Thanx Lee

#5 Gloyale

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Posted 10 March 2007 - 11:04 AM

Did you read Skips post? it's all right there. Read the code article. sorry but we can't help you with just a description of clicks and whirrs from somewhere.

Check the green test connector under hood, by drivers side strut tower. back of engine bay. Very close to Wiper motor. If that green connector, or the other White "read" connector are plugged toghether, unplug them. See what you get.

If that light is flashing steady blinks 5 to 8 of them, then that is telling you that there are no active trouble codes. If it is any other esequence of flashes, it is a code and again reffer to article, go from there.

#6 rorannerusan

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Posted 10 March 2007 - 08:40 PM

I read skips post completely. My question now is this do the codes cover a 91 ea82 motor? I am just curious to know as I am very greatful for all the help. If you guys want me to I can describe the ecu flash sequence to the best of my knowledge. I believe it was a long flash followed by 2 short flashes. I will check his ecu codes again.
Thanks Lee

#7 Gloyale

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Posted 10 March 2007 - 10:39 PM

Go by the 88 and later spfi chart. you've got code 12 it sounds like. This is sometimes just a result of sustained cranking without start. I would look at spark and fuel again.

Have you checked all the fuses and fusible links? Have you cranked the engine with the distributor cap off to see if the rotor spins? and verified it is attached firmly to the shaft?

#8 rorannerusan

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Posted 10 March 2007 - 11:49 PM

I have verified spark and rotation. Car will fire with the gas pedal to the floor but not start and run. If gas pedal is released no fire. strange thing is I wasn't paying attention at first but then I noticed the clicking sound, click click underneath the dash and the wirring sound underneath the hood at what I believe relates to a small motor dealing with the fuel injection unit at the same time simultaneously as the red flashes. Will download the code stuff later before I go back and work on the soob. Would a crank position sensor cause this.
Thanx Lee

#9 Gloyale

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Posted 11 March 2007 - 11:22 AM

The fact you have spark and at least some fuel points me at timing. Both valve timing and spark timing wil be thrown off if the timing belts slipped. The crank angle sensor is built into the distributor. So it is all related.
I think you're next step is to check and see if you're timing belts are still aligned properly. There is a little rubber cover on the back of the engine. romve it and you see the Flywheel. rotate the motor by hand using a 22mm socket until it lines up on the center of the 3 marks( not the numbered timing marks, these three are 90 degrees away from the timing ones) pull the outer timing belt covers, one on each end. the little dots on the pulleys should be one straight up, one straight down. If they are not you need to reset the belt timing. And probably replace the belts if they have jumped.
Once you're sure the belts are lined up right, rotae the motor by hand again until it lines up on the 0 of the timing marks. Look at the rotor in distributor, it should be pointing at the number 1 or number 3 of the cap, depending on whether you're on compression or exhaust stroke. If it's pointing anywhere else, you're distributor is in wrong.

Has this engine run for you before? did it just stop running? Is the blinking red light you're talking about the ECS light on the dash?

#10 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 11 March 2007 - 12:04 PM

1. Verify your timing - both belts, and the distributor. Check for slipped or broken belts by removing the outer belt covers.

2. Clean you MAF - take special care to clean the air bypass port of all oil, dirt and contaminates. Use brake cleaner.

3. Verify that the fuel pump is running - connect the green test connectors and turn the ignition to run. The pump should cycle every few seconds.

You need three things for the engine to run - air (both for the engine AND the airflow sensor), fuel, and ignition. Sounds to me like either you have timing issues (broken or slipped belts), or sensor issues to the point that it won't fire the injector. The fact that you get some fire at WOT indicates that when the ECU ignores the MAF things get *some* better.

Your "clicking" and "whiring" sounds are normal. That's just relays and stuff. It's when things DONT make noise that you have to worry.

GD

#11 rorannerusan

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Posted 11 March 2007 - 07:45 PM

I have checked everything and it is all correct. I guess I will check the Maf sensor. Thanx you all for all your replies. I will post more details as I get them. I will check the blinking light again on the ecu to make sure it is right. Thanx again for the replies. Oh and can you tell me where the maf is??
Lee

#12 Gloyale

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Posted 11 March 2007 - 08:42 PM

I have checked everything and it is all correct. I guess I will check the Maf sensor. Thanx you all for all your replies. I will post more details as I get them. I will check the blinking light again on the ecu to make sure it is right. Thanx again for the replies. Oh and can you tell me where the maf is??
Lee


Maf is on the air filter box. it is connected to the engine by the big black tube that goes from the air filter to the engine. MAF stands for Mass Airflow Sensor. It tells the ECU how much air the engine is sucking in. make sure that big tube is clamped tightly to both the MAF and to the throttle body, and that it has no cracks or breaks. Other than this I am thinking Throttle Position Sensor(TPS). DO you have any kind of book to help you locate and test this stuff? do you have a multimeter to test it? There should be stuff about each of those sensors and how to test if you search. Search the whole words, not the 3 letter abreviations(search ignores those)

#13 rorannerusan

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Posted 12 March 2007 - 08:25 PM

I will get a book next payday and will post my progress as well as the ecu code properly.
Thanx Lee

#14 Nug

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Posted 13 March 2007 - 11:37 AM

Check the screw holding the rotor on.

#15 Loyale 2.7 Turbo

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Posted 13 March 2007 - 11:49 AM

Also, the Fussible Links...

Good Luck! :)

#16 rorannerusan

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Posted 22 March 2007 - 10:17 PM

Hi again I checked the codes and there is no codes to see. All check out good. Still will not start. Played with it today and same thing. will try to start with gas pedal to the floor. Could it be tps or fuel delivery issues? I cleaned the maf sensor out and it was clean. The air filter is brand new but the rotor and cap look like it could use replacing. I am really stumped here. Could the cap and rotor cause this problem? Acts like either it is not getting enough fuel or the throttle position sensor is out. Will try to start with accelerator all the way floored only not released or in between. Anybody ever seen this problem?
Thanx Lee

#17 Gloyale

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Posted 22 March 2007 - 11:59 PM

Hi again I checked the codes and there is no codes to see. All check out good. Still will not start. Played with it today and same thing. will try to start with gas pedal to the floor. Could it be tps or fuel delivery issues? I cleaned the maf sensor out and it was clean. The air filter is brand new but the rotor and cap look like it could use replacing. I am really stumped here. Could the cap and rotor cause this problem? Acts like either it is not getting enough fuel or the throttle position sensor is out. Will try to start with accelerator all the way floored only not released or in between. Anybody ever seen this problem?
Thanx Lee


Have you verified the spark plugs are all good? Checked compression? Belt timing may be correct, but the disty could be off? 180 or? where does the rotor line up when you put the engine at TDC? should be pointing at #1 on cap, compression stroke obviously. Triple sure the rotor screw is in place on shaft in Distributor?

Fuel pressure high enough? inspect for clogged injector?

#18 aiiadict

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Posted 23 March 2007 - 01:12 AM

Gloyale wrote:
>Fuel pressure high enough? inspect for clogged injector?


I am having similar issues with 1991 loyale SPFI.. I could get it to fire
once in a while... more often with pedal to floor.

If spark is there, and timed correctly, then you have fuel issues.

Fuel issues:

1)fuel pump not operating
2)fuel pump not up to pressure
3)injector

injector:
1)no power
2)bad solenoid
3)bad seals

to check: put 12v to ECU start pin, with coil wire disco'd from dist.

you should hear the fuel pump spin. have someone else touch the pump and verify it's running.

you should also get some spray in the intake. leave the throttle closed, and you should see the fuel spray onto top of throttle valve.

no spray: no start.

put a meter on the injector leads (pull the rubber cover away from the top)

put +12 to start on ECU

you should get +12 on injector leads. if no, harness or ECU is bad

if you get power to injector, and no spray, you either have 1)bad fuel delivery or 2)stuck injector

(I know all this because I found a (the) stuck injector today in my SPFI)

Rich

#19 rorannerusan

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Posted 24 March 2007 - 08:53 AM

Thanx again you all.
Is the ecu start pin labeled? Will check fuel delivery when I play with it again. Should I hear the fuel pump when I turn on the key? I unplugged the ecu code wires and I don't hear it anymore.
Thanx Lee

#20 Cougar

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Posted 24 March 2007 - 11:47 AM

You should hear the the pump turn on briefly when you turn the key to the RUN position. If not, then try starting the engine, turn the key to OFF, and repeat the step.

To see if you have a fuel problem try spraying a small shot of starter fluid into the intake and see if the engine trys to run then. If that doesn't work and you have good spark then it would seem there is a timing problem or one of the timing belts is broken. Check the compression of at least one cylinder on each side of the engine. IIRC you stated earlier that the disty is turning and so that would mean that one (driver's side??, not sure which one ties to the disty) belt at least is ok.

#21 psylosyfer

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Posted 24 March 2007 - 11:03 PM

My 91 loyale had similar symptoms when the fuel pump was failing.
relay cycles on/off/on/off etc. with the key on, I could kneel down by the rear passenger tire and her the pump cycle with the relay.
But when I pulled the hose off the "under hood " fuel filter, And turned the key on I only had a drizzle.
Replaced pump, started instantly and runs great!
Does it run if you spray starter fluid in the air intake, while cranking it?

#22 rorannerusan

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Posted 24 March 2007 - 11:36 PM

I tried it with fresh gas and it would not start. It would try if I held the gas pedal to the floor after a fashion. I may have poured in too much gas when I tried this. I will try some starting fluid next time I Play with the soob. Will be this next thursday.
Thanx Lee

#23 rorannerusan

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Posted 27 March 2007 - 10:03 PM

Can you usually hear the feul pump when you first turn on the key, and would low fuel cause the no start? Fuel gauge reads empty, do you think 2 gallons would be enough?
Thanx Lee

#24 daeron

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Posted 27 March 2007 - 11:16 PM

2 gallons should be enough.

Some people will say yes, you should hear the pump come on with the key for a few moments.. but I never have. the BEST way to test the fuel pump is to plug the green connectors on, and turn the key to "on." you should hear a clicking underneath the dashboard, and the fuel pump will cycle on and off.

#25 rorannerusan

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Posted 28 March 2007 - 12:18 AM

Thankyou I now know that the fuel pump is good. I hope that a new fuel filter some fresh gas plugs wires and rotor with cap should have it up and running. Do you know where the fuel filter is at and is it easy access and can I move to under the hood if it isn't?
Thanx Lee




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