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Where do i start? yeah, you heard this one before...


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#1 litewaitdave1

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Posted 22 March 2007 - 09:53 PM

im looking to purchase a subaru to use strictly as a rallyx car. price and ease of modification are my main concerns, as well as availabillity of good used and aftermarket parts at a decent price.

there are a lot of good used subes from 83 to 94 in my price range, but which starts out with the strongest set up and which car has easy swaps, (will it fit a 98 sti motor? ect..) im not at all new to cars, not too sure about subes, other than i cant afford to wreck a 2000 sti. well, regardless i need some insight. ill take any help i can get.

#2 86BRATMAN

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Posted 22 March 2007 - 10:00 PM

im looking to purchase a subaru to use strictly as a rallyx car. price and ease of modification are my main concerns, as well as availabillity of good used and aftermarket parts at a decent price.

there are a lot of good used subes from 83 to 94 in my price range, but which starts out with the strongest set up and which car has easy swaps, (will it fit a 98 sti motor? ect..) im not at all new to cars, not too sure about subes, other than i cant afford to wreck a 2000 sti. well, regardless i need some insight. ill take any help i can get.


Any ea82 car will easily accept any dohc ej motor. Wiring the swap into any car will be a pain however, but it can be done. Or there are board members offering the service, no sure if they'd enjoy jdm wiring though;) .

Also if you are thinking of importing a 2000 STi I will personaly come and hit you if you rallyx it. Seeing as how the STi made its debute in 2004 in the USA.

#3 litewaitdave1

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Posted 22 March 2007 - 10:08 PM

Any ea82 car will easily accept any dohc ej motor. Wiring the swap into any car will be a pain however, but it can be done. Or there are board members offering the service, no sure if they'd enjoy jdm wiring though;) .

Also if you are thinking of importing a 2000 STi I will personaly come and hit you if you rallyx it. Seeing as how the STi made its debute in 2004 in the USA.


sorry, i ment 2.5RS the whole time, i think i need to cut back on hash or something.

#4 86BRATMAN

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Posted 22 March 2007 - 10:15 PM

sorry, i ment 2.5RS the whole time, i think i need to cut back on hash or something.


Its easy to get them confused when on hash:lol:

I would probably recommend the ea82 sedan for its weight and that most all legacy/impreza suspension will work with some mods

#5 Numbchux

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Posted 22 March 2007 - 10:46 PM

Its easy to get them confused when on hash:lol:

I would probably recommend the ea82 sedan for its weight and that most all legacy/impreza suspension will work with some mods


i'd have to disagree...EA82s are cool, but your modifications are pretty limited. if you're just looking for a fun beater car, yea, but if you're looking for a seriously competitive car, get an early impreza L coupe. they're similar weight to an EA82, and the aftermarket support is exponentially better.

the biggest difference is the rear suspension. anything else is pretty easily upgradeable to EJ stuff, but the rear end is totally different. the best rear shocks you can get are KYB GR2s, or full coilovers for an '05+ legacy (which are still pretty limited). Sway bars are limited to XT6, etc.

an imp can easily be upgraded for better brakes, shocks, springs, sway bars, etc. all easily interchangeable for WRX stuff, or better

and, they come with a better motor (this point is arguable....but out of the box, an EJ motor has a bunch more power than an EA). AND, if you decide to do a big power build, the engine wiring is already half done.


long story short, an OBD II 2.2l impreza L coupe would be ideal!

#6 litewaitdave1

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Posted 23 March 2007 - 01:09 AM

i'd have to disagree...EA82s are cool, but your modifications are pretty limited. if you're just looking for a fun beater car, yea, but if you're looking for a seriously competitive car, get an early impreza L coupe. they're similar weight to an EA82, and the aftermarket support is exponentially better.


long story short, an OBD II 2.2l impreza L coupe would be ideal!


what year did that version first come out?, not to up on the diff/ in model years.

#7 86BRATMAN

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Posted 23 March 2007 - 01:13 AM

obd 2 is anything 95 or newer. If you don't care for power accesories go for a awd brighton model. They came with the ej18, but that can be taken care of with a motor swap

#8 Numbchux

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Posted 23 March 2007 - 01:21 AM

OBD II refers to the ECU diagnostics system, and is universal on all cars '95+ (and some older ones). getting one that is already OBD II means a smarter ECU, and a more compatible system should you decide to swap.

although an ej22 swap is possible on an ej18 car, it's (IMO anyway...) more work than it's worth. there were basic Ls with the 2.2 (My buddy has a '96 L coupe with a 2.2, it happens to have an auto, but they exist as a manual too).

I would also avoid the brightons, because they had rear drum brakes. and while the swap is possible, IMO more work than it's worth just for stock discs. if you're going to bother, do a real upgrade....

I'd be looking for a '95-'97 L coupe with a 2.2l, 5MT, and rear disc brakes. that'll get you a heck of a headstart. and if you look around, they can be had for pretty cheap.

#9 rsb

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Posted 23 March 2007 - 05:30 PM

for some good reading check out www.subiegal.com shes got some good info in here Rally FAQs section also links to rally classifieds. good resource.

-Brian

my 2 cents I think a 78 brat w/ a big motor would be smokin

#10 Qman

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Posted 24 March 2007 - 05:38 PM

...

I would also avoid the brightons, because they had rear drum brakes. and while the swap is possible, IMO more work than it's worth just for stock discs. if you're going to bother, do a real upgrade....

I'd be looking for a '95-'97 L coupe with a 2.2l, 5MT, and rear disc brakes. that'll get you a heck of a headstart. and if you look around, they can be had for pretty cheap.


I will have to disagree with this one.(sorry)

I have a '96 Brighton AWD MT 1.8(stock form)
Now, it is a 2.5 w/4.11 ratio diffs beast with rear discs from a Legacy and is an absolute animal. I have less into it than a decent '97 and newer "L" Impreza. The biggest bonus for using a Brighton is that there are fewer options. No sunroof hole to fill. No extra weight from the electric accys. My car weighs in +/- 26oo lbs. It is power to weight ratios that seperate winning and losing in most situations. The last rallyX I entered we posted times that were 5 seconds faster than any other competitor irregardless of class. We run in M4(modified 4WD/AWD). So yes, it does matter what you start with.

Good luck. You'll probably want to do some extensive research on what you are getting into. You can't just show up at a rally and run a car. Rally cross yes, but not rally. There are lots of rules and regulations that have to be followed to the letter to qualify.

#11 Numbchux

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Posted 24 March 2007 - 05:51 PM

I will have to disagree with this one.(sorry)

I have a '96 Brighton AWD MT 1.8(stock form)
Now, it is a 2.5 w/4.11 ratio diffs beast with rear discs from a Legacy and is an absolute animal. I have less into it than a decent '97 and newer "L" Impreza. The biggest bonus for using a Brighton is that there are fewer options. No sunroof hole to fill. No extra weight from the electric accys. My car weighs in +/- 26oo lbs. It is power to weight ratios that seperate winning and losing in most situations. The last rallyX I entered we posted times that were 5 seconds faster than any other competitor irregardless of class. We run in M4(modified 4WD/AWD). So yes, it does matter what you start with.

Good luck. You'll probably want to do some extensive research on what you are getting into. You can't just show up at a rally and run a car. Rally cross yes, but not rally. There are lots of rules and regulations that have to be followed to the letter to qualify.


it's true. that's why I said '95-'97. I wouldn't really consider getting anything newer than a '97. the brightons have just as much potential as any other impreza. but an L that already has a 2.2l and rear discs is just a head start on that. will be much closer to that animal without any modifications at all.

if you're planning on going the whole nine yards, a brighton is a great choice. if you're planning to do a bit, and drive the daylights out of it, and upgrading it a little at a time, I'd try to find something a step up.

#12 Uberoo

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Posted 25 March 2007 - 05:17 PM

Why not something really light?Like an EA81 style car with full WRX engine and drivetrain? and suspension?

#13 Numbchux

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Posted 25 March 2007 - 05:42 PM

Why not something really light?Like an EA81 style car with full WRX engine and drivetrain? and suspension?


rear suspension....torsion bars FTL.


unless you're OK with the stock suspension.....

#14 970subaru

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Posted 30 March 2007 - 12:10 AM

for stock class any soob is fine, definitely the biggest part of the picture is the driver. seen several types of soobs do well but I really want to see a stock justy run because they would be sooo good in the tight corners and they are light as hell. imagine a fully gutted ~1500lb justy with a phantom grip or R160/LSD swap, few power mods and some rally tires!
open, like the others have said the brighton is probably the best bet coupled with a motor that has a really broad powerband. the suspension options are very big; KYB GR-2 and AGX struts, koni yellow inserts, a bunch of different coilovers(DMS :brow: ), run lots of negative camber, etc.
if I had the money for a dedicated rallycrosser I'd do an ea hatch very gutted out ~1900lbs with an ej25, maybe headers/exhaust/intake and D/R 5sp with 4 lug stuff, some tricks for negative camber, nice strut inserts and coilover setup rigged up, some 14" pugs with rally tires and definitely an LSD rear or maybe welded(that might push pretty bad tho).
I'm going to look at a hatch project car this weekend.:Flame:

#15 litewaitdave1

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Posted 30 March 2007 - 10:34 PM

rember, i need years, new to sube engine # and the like, but i think i am going to go with a 91 legacy or that bodystyle anyway. though all i can find are auto tranys, is a swap easy, and can you even find a decent 5 speed used. the main thing comes down to price, i cant afford to have much more than 1000 bucks invested in a shell, cause im gona smash it, so cheep is key.. parts i can exchange b/w cars.

#16 970subaru

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Posted 31 March 2007 - 01:18 AM

just wait, they are out there. those legacies are 90-94, imprezas are 93-01, impreza brightons(strippo) they stopped making some time in the late 90's. oh, I wouldnt be too concerned with drum brakes on a rallycross car.
for EJ cars(5 lug, EJ engines, 1990+) $1000 is going to get you an ok legacy that might need a little work or have rust or damage maybe. if you see an impreza for under a grand you better jump on it, stat, unless its fwd(though you can swap those to awd, lots of work and parts).
the 5mt swap can also be done, I did it on my legacy and it is not super hard just time consuming due to so many little parts to change but you would do well to have a parts car.

#17 Phizinza

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Posted 31 March 2007 - 10:50 PM

i'd have to disagree...EA82s are cool, but your modifications are pretty limited. if you're just looking for a fun beater car, yea, but if you're looking for a seriously competitive car, get an early impreza L coupe. they're similar weight to an EA82, and the aftermarket support is exponentially better.

That would be my pick too for what dave wants to do.

#18 litewaitdave1

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Posted 01 April 2007 - 04:44 PM

there is still a cost issue w/ a 95&up Imp, you can find a running L for 2000-3000. where a 91 legacy is 1500 on average, an 85 gl i can get 3 for 1000. im verry serious about racing, but im also very new. so im sure ill reck it. im not ken block, i cant buy a new sti for every gumball or wrc race i want. (im not dogging ken, those two Gumball STi's, amazing) i could run a frontweel car for a while and still push my limits, i just love subarus.

#19 mikeshoup

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Posted 01 April 2007 - 09:26 PM

I would just stay away from the Loyales/anything older than 90. Those are the EA era subarus, and while great cars, definitely not the easiest to modify into a rally car. Especially the 84 and older cars as they have a rear torsion bar setup.

Get just about any Legacy or Impreza, and strip it. You'll do fine.

#20 Qman

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Posted 03 April 2007 - 08:08 PM

I would just stay away from the Loyales/anything older than 90. Those are the EA era subarus, and while great cars, definitely not the easiest to modify into a rally car. Especially the 84 and older cars as they have a rear torsion bar setup.

Get just about any Legacy or Impreza, and strip it. You'll do fine.


Oh yeah, stay away from the old EA cars. They can't go fast or beat anything. Except...































that they can win open class. They can set fastest laps and win overall 1st place. Beating everything from 323GTX, STi's, WRX's, alltrac's, (insert your favorite vehicle here). This Brat has won truck class over and over again. It has won open class events 4 times. Set fast lap at two events and just pissed everyone off most of the time.

Posted Image

Now, granted, this is not a stock Brat. The motor has been rebuilt and modified. Has between 130 and 150 hp. Is running a 5sp D/R trans. Stock torsion bar suspension with a RX rear sway bar added. KYB rear shocks and AC/Delco front struts running stock springs. And an open rear diff just to make things fair, lol!

You results will vary.

Morale of the story... anything will work. The best thing you can do is find a front wheel drive rig first. Learn to drive that. Then go to rear wheel drive and learn to drive that. Then after you feel you have mastered both of those take some driving lessons. Then race for a year or two even. Then you can think of buying an AWD vehicle and running that. This schedule will take a couple of years but you will be a much better driver afterwards.

BTW, I now run a '96 Impreza Brighton. I run in Modified 4wd/AWD(M4) and am one of top finishers for the past two seasons. I finished 2nd overall for the 2006 Oregon rallycross series in M4. Not bragging, just adding to show I may have some idea what I am talking about.

The most important thing is to get out there and have fun with it. Then you can start thinking about stage rally if that is your aspiration.

#21 Storm

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Posted 09 April 2007 - 10:41 PM

I'm keeping the drums on my Brighton as well.....Discs are over rated when you're so close to lockup anyway and no ABS.....

Anyone ever do a direct weight comparison between the drum and disc setups? Way back in my FWD mopar days, the drums were lighter but a disc swap meant more rear bias for trailbraking (if you kept the disc/drum proportion valve).

I'd go with an early base model Impreza, although the gen I Legacy is reported to be better balanced. Hard to find a good early Legacy as most are either too far gone, too option-laden to stay light or too far tucked away for safe keeping. At least an Impreza can be cosmetically upgraded to RS panels if that's your thing when not throwing roostertails of dirt around cones.

Jay Storm




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