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Guest Message by DevFuse
 

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Wrist pins blocked. Shifted cylinder liner?


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27 replies to this topic

#1 Gloyale

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Posted 25 March 2007 - 05:51 PM

So I went to remove the wrist pins from my EA82T short block before seperating it. I unscerw the plugs in the block for access and look in the holes expecting to see springclips and the wrist pins. In one hole I do. But in the others, there is a plate of metal, cast looking metal. One of them it is only partially blocking the wristpin, and has an arcing edge to it that looks like it matches the shape of the access hole at lower end of cylinder.

I am scared that the cylinder liners have spun in there bores, and are now blocking the access holes. Has anyone ever seen this? I didn't think it was possible but there it is.

#2 Gloyale

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Posted 25 March 2007 - 07:28 PM

Okay, this is what you should see:
http://www.ultimates...75&ppuser=21475


This is what I see through the other 3 holes. Yikes!

http://www.ultimates...00&ppuser=21475

#3 Quidam

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Posted 25 March 2007 - 08:18 PM

Hey,

One '86 EA-82T I took apart had one liner spun around. It had been severely over-heated. Worth .65 per pound now, heads too.

Doug

#4 VaporTrail

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Posted 25 March 2007 - 08:23 PM

I've seen it in a ea81 before too....

#5 86BRATMAN

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Posted 25 March 2007 - 08:27 PM

Well that looks pretty bad. If you absolutely have to reuse this block, you could find a good engine shop that has done resleeving before. But money says you'd be better, and cheaper, off to get another motor.

#6 Gloyale

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Posted 25 March 2007 - 10:00 PM

I was already planning on having this block bored. I could get another motor but I would be rebuilding it anyhow. So I'm spendin money at the machinist either way. And finding a block in Wisconsin is not as easy as it is out west. I could get one for sure but I don't know If I need to. I'll talk to the shop about new sleeves.

#7 GLCraig

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Posted 25 March 2007 - 10:05 PM

Most of the time when I've seen a spun cylinder sleeve, there's usually a crack in the block too. You're far better off finding a good short block and take the old one to the recyclers.

#8 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 25 March 2007 - 10:16 PM

They can't easily be sleeved. They just aren't condusive to it - those that have tried ended up with the sleeves spinning in short order.

GD

#9 Gloyale

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Posted 25 March 2007 - 10:20 PM

Well I have the engine that's in the car right now. It runs great, but it has been overheated in it's past. It has a terrible rod knock, sure it will give out eventually. I wanted to build this motor while that one was in the car. Then I could do the swap in a day.

Damn, I scavenged heads from a complete w/turbo engine I picked up for $100. I had to completely reseal and clean up valves and seats on heads. Junked the block, it was severely rusted in 2 cylinders. But I could have bored it out. I had to throw the car together to get it home from Oregon to Wisconsin. Ebay car. I knew going in I had major surgery but it only took a week to get it up and running. 15,000 miles since. These things are durable.

#10 VaporTrail

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Posted 26 March 2007 - 02:25 AM

where in WI are you? I have a ea82 sitting in a wagon yet at my parents house in NE Iowa (about 30 miles from Praire Du Chien)

The motor turns freely, but hasn't been started in a long time.

I bought the wagon for the trans, and was going to sell everything else...

only 75k or so on it....

#11 Gloyale

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Posted 26 March 2007 - 07:54 AM

where in WI are you? I have a ea82 sitting in a wagon yet at my parents house in NE Iowa (about 30 miles from Praire Du Chien)

The motor turns freely, but hasn't been started in a long time.

I bought the wagon for the trans, and was going to sell everything else...

only 75k or so on it....


You've got a PM McBrat

#12 Gloyale

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Posted 26 March 2007 - 09:29 AM

They can't easily be sleeved. They just aren't condusive to it - those that have tried ended up with the sleeves spinning in short order.

GD


Why aren't they condusive to it? I have had other blocks sleeved before. What would make it not work here? my machinist wants to know. He thinks it's possible.

Edit: possible but expensive. I'll be getting another block.

#13 rguyver

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Posted 26 March 2007 - 05:57 PM

i have had this happen and if you realy need the block apart a hammer and punch on the liner will brake the liner apart enuff to get the pin out but the block is trash if you dont sleeve it , it is almost always cheeper to get a new block , beacuse if that happened it is most likely over heated and the head bolt threds will strip out , had that happen on a rebuild after the bottem end was assembled :mad:

#14 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 26 March 2007 - 07:12 PM

Why aren't they condusive to it? I have had other blocks sleeved before. What would make it not work here? my machinist wants to know. He thinks it's possible.

Edit: possible but expensive. I'll be getting another block.


It *can* be done. But very, very few shops are properly equipped for it. The problem is that the sleeves, once installed, must be bored to the proper size and trueness, with the proper surface prep. This can only be properly done with a bore-plate - a 4" thick steel plate that simulates the head being torqued to the block. No one but a few shops like CCR or RAM have this sort of equipment - thus most attemts to sleeve these engines that don't include this crucial step fail in short order. Subaru engines even from the 80's have extremely tight tollerances - someone used to rebuilding american engines of the same period will not produce an engine that will last very long.

GD

#15 daeron

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Posted 26 March 2007 - 08:21 PM

yah resleeve with no torque plate == cylinder out of round.. the torque plate gets torqued on the bloc like its a head, and that way when the block is bored, it is already stressed as it will be in run conditions. Boring without a totque plate can be done, and the engine will likely work.. for a little while.... :rolleyes:

#16 Gloyale

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Posted 27 March 2007 - 06:50 PM

The shop is fully capable of boring the cylinders. That I am sure of. I was going to have that done even if the liners where not shifted. Is that all you're talkin bout? Boring them would be no problem, I just was wondering if SLEEVING them would be a problem. My machinist thinks there is enough material around the cylinder that he could insert a new sleeve(which he'd have to notch for wristpin holes), but the cost would be at least $120 per cylinder(needs 3). Then the boring cost on top, though I guess I'll be paying that either way. I figure for $360 bucks I can find a fresh(or not so fresh) block to work with.

#17 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 27 March 2007 - 07:56 PM

The shop is fully capable of boring the cylinders.


Not if they don't have a bore plate for the engine, which I seriously doubt they do. Sure they can bore it - but it won't be correct. This is a bore plate (or deck plate as RAM refers to it):

http://ramengines.co.../deckplate2.JPG

GD

#18 daeron

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Posted 27 March 2007 - 11:21 PM

Not if they don't have a bore plate for the engine, which I seriously doubt they do. Sure they can bore it - but it won't be correct. This is a bore plate (or deck plate as RAM refers to it):

http://ramengines.co.../deckplate2.JPG

GD

OOOoooOOOOoooo, PURDY!!!

#19 Gloyale

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Posted 28 March 2007 - 11:13 AM

Not if they don't have a bore plate for the engine, which I seriously doubt they do. Sure they can bore it - but it won't be correct. This is a bore plate (or deck plate as RAM refers to it):

GD


Why would you doubt? Only people you've heard of have Subaru experience? as a matter of fact they do have one not only for the EA82, but for EA81, EJ18, EJ22, EJ25, and EG33. As well as ones for Porsce. I looked at them today. And if they didn't, honestly, how hard is it for any machinist to make one. Its a block of metal with holes. This is a serious high pro shop. Granted the majority of there work is Chevys, and Hemis, and other race motors. But they get lots of exotic business too. I got to scope a sweet Opel motor in pieces while I was there today.

The cost for sleeving would be about $350-400 bucks. I think I can find a block and even ship it aways for that money. So that is my current plan. But I may well end up having to sleeve it if I can't source a good block close to me.

#20 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 28 March 2007 - 03:19 PM

Most places dont. That's cool if they can do it, but it's all acedemic as it's not worth the cost unless it's your only option. And even then the money would better be spent on an EJ22 conversion. Sadly I don't forsee there ever being a need to *fix* major EA82 problems. Hi-Po EA81's and EJ22's are far superior in many (different) respects. The EA82 just isn't the engine of choice for discriminating owners willing to outlay that kind of cash. The EA82 will soon be marginalized as they are systematically destroyed by scrap yards, or replaced by EJ22's for street, and Hi-Po EA81's for off-road. It has many qualities, but they are sadly lost in a sea of inadequacies both in performance, and to a lesser extent maintenance-free reliability. Don't get me wrong - I own two of them ATM - but given the choice you are faced with I wouldn't hessitate to do the EJ swap if the vehicle really is worth that kind of money input.

GD

#21 Milemaker13

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Posted 28 March 2007 - 03:32 PM

You found it, didn't you ! Lets pick it up ASAP!

#22 Gloyale

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Posted 28 March 2007 - 04:23 PM

HOORAY! 96,000 mile Carb motor. Should have a good bottom end. Anybody need a Hitachi?

#23 daeron

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Posted 28 March 2007 - 04:37 PM

HOORAY! 96,000 mile Carb motor. Should have a good bottom end. Anybody need a Hitachi?


Does anybody EVER *need* a hitachi?

#24 Gloyale

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Posted 28 March 2007 - 06:12 PM

Does anybody EVER *need* a hitachi?


OMFG :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

But seriously who wants it?

#25 daeron

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Posted 28 March 2007 - 06:33 PM

Allright, I'll keep running with it... :grin:

I have a Kayak in desparate need of a mud anchor......:Flame:

I dont even have any experience with these carbs and I still knock them, heh..




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