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Guest Message by DevFuse
 

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why not a 4eat offroad.


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23 replies to this topic

#1 tailgatewagon

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Posted 08 May 2007 - 09:47 AM

I was just thinking about my next offroader the impreza is fun but to limited. i dont want to do a 5dr since the final crawl is still way to high. so this is what i was thinking.

eg33 or stroker ej22. i have all the parts for both.
4eat from outback (4.44)
manual switch for center diff.
big trany cooler...

anyway as i see it the auto trany will crawl alot better as it can be slipped as long as trany temps are kept in check it should work fairly well....

any thoughts....

#2 ezapar

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Posted 08 May 2007 - 10:02 AM

If you don't get too big on the tires it might do OK.

Keep in mind, it won't have the clearance or travel to actually do any "rock crawling" and you should do fine on basic trails.

#3 Sweet82

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Posted 08 May 2007 - 10:05 AM

The idea is sound but the tranny is not!:-\

Your tranny will demand replacement sooner than you may expect.:eek:

#4 Scott in Bellingham

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Posted 08 May 2007 - 10:06 AM

any thoughts....


I built a buggy years ago based on a 76 datsun pickup 2wd running gear with a automatic, it was awesome I loved the automatic, it was stock engine and 2wd trans amd we ran 33" tires, tranny coolers a great idea, SJR

#5 nipper

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Posted 08 May 2007 - 10:59 AM

The automatic will be fine with a proper cooler and filter.

There are schools of thought on either side of this discussion, but an automatic is easier to control and multiplies torque. A manual is more instant response. ALso when you get stuck its easier to pwoerbrake (to shift power to non stuck wheels) with an automatic.



http://dtsn.darpa.mi...sp?topic_id=722
http://www.oramagazi...sue/finesse.asp

Personally it depends what i was doing, but if i was rock crawling, ild go autmoatic, if i was out on the farm ild go manual.

Right now with a bad leg, i would have to choose automatic every time.

nipper

#6 WoodsWagon

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Posted 08 May 2007 - 11:50 AM

Get a big cooler with a seperate electric fan. When you're using the torque converter to crawl, all the unused horsepower is going into heating the fluid. As long as you don't overheat the tranny, it should work well and be reliable.

#7 Numbchux

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Posted 08 May 2007 - 03:53 PM

I hate 5-speeds for crawling. only reason I put up with it on my subaru was because it's the only way to get low range.

be extremely careful if you're mating it up to an EG33 though. they can barely hold that up to that torque in 'normal' use.

#8 the_postie

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Posted 09 May 2007 - 01:18 AM

I run a modded 4eat offroad,[locking centre, vtd rear transfer,4.44, 3000 stall] its awesome.It just crawls along nicely,has plenty of power.The auto i'm using is design to go behind ej20T and ej20tt so their isn't any problem with too much torque as i'm only running a ej22.Go for it .oh yeah a cooler is a must.

#9 Free Range

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 11:41 AM

I'm all for the 4eat if it's setup right. Big external cooler, I'd be wary of the duty cly 3 switch, I've killed two auto's that way, definitly a huge skidplate is a must, those 4eat pans are flimsy whimsy.
-N

#10 grossgary

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Posted 12 May 2007 - 07:51 AM

i drive off road frequently as needed for outdoor excursions. the 4EAT in my XT6 does very well. i have the switch and rear clutch type LSD, nice set up for mud and snow. pretty well can't get stuck unless you're in slop, you got no ground clearance.

#11 Gloyale

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Posted 14 May 2007 - 12:59 PM

I'm all for the 4eat if it's setup right. Big external cooler, I'd be wary of the duty cly 3 switch, I've killed two auto's that way, definitly a huge skidplate is a must, those 4eat pans are flimsy whimsy.
-N


Elaborate on the *Killed* trans. What happened and how was you're switch set-up? When were you using it and what model car was this in? I think both Gary and I would like to know. While there is tons of conjecture on switch use, we've asked and gotten no response from someone that actually had a problem with it.

#12 grossgary

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Posted 14 May 2007 - 01:13 PM

I'd be wary of the duty cly 3 switch, I've killed two auto's that way, definitly a huge skidplate is a must, those 4eat pans are flimsy whimsy.


i've had no problems on multiple vehicles and many thousands of miles and years of use. if someone were having issues with it, i'd be more prone to suspect the usage being the cause than the actual modification itself.

be careful of the threads on the EJ oil pans, they are tac welded in and don't like bashing. somehow and two of my pans have failed after being smashed/hing up on the drain plug, one at the beach and one in the mtns. my bigger problem is my gas tanks in my 91' legcacy, I lost over two gallons of capactiy in two days of high desert, no leaks as of yet though.


i'm also not bashing oil pans, transmission pan and gas tanks, so you definitely put stuff to the test. they have excellent capabilities but certainly aren't immune to issues if beaten offroad. with severe use i could see lots of stuff failing, including automatic transmissions. this is the off road forum, so this is good information depending what kind of off roading your doing.

#13 grossgary

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Posted 14 May 2007 - 01:15 PM

yeah for double post!

#14 Gloyale

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Posted 15 May 2007 - 12:34 PM

Free range, What happened with your switch? How was it wired? Please share with us becasue GrossGary and I have done this mod with no problems so far. We both would really like to here what happened.

#15 scoobyclimbs

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Posted 15 May 2007 - 06:06 PM

I do all the time....use syn. atf for added protection....+ a cooler.
for crawling steep long climbs in hot weather it's really tough . 2nd gear is best for crawling .

#16 Andyjo

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Posted 15 May 2007 - 06:47 PM

I've never had any problems with my 4eat offroad... like scooby said, get a cooler, and know it's limitations.. it's not going to be perfect, but it will get you most places that you want to get if you know how to drive a line ;)

#17 tailgatewagon

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Posted 15 May 2007 - 11:57 PM

im going to go with teh 4eat for shure i do alot of offcaber stuff with big rocks. the last rock i crawled up on i almost fliped the car:confused: and it was about 300 ft down the hill before the trees started. i kinda had to ramp it up on there as thats all i could do with a 5speed unless i were to burn the clutch. anyway i think with the stroker 2.2 or the 3.3 i will have plenty of power i hope..

i would like to hear more on freeranges probs. ive heard he drives like a madman.

#18 sayn3ver

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Posted 17 May 2007 - 07:51 AM

This is my post in a long time but here is my view of the situation.

I have an imp L with auto that will be finally a manual 5spd in a few weeks or so. The auto is nice but the concern of bashing the pan in and overheating it were always on my mind while off roading it. I figure i'll lose a bit of torque and some control in favor of not worrying about the tranny pan being ripped off as i go up a hill, over some rocks or into a mud hole. I also found no decent way of adding a skid guard for the tranny pan. I'd rather trade possibly getting towed home for getting stuck more(with the 5spd). Thats me though.

#19 Gloyale

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Posted 18 May 2007 - 01:21 PM

I can't believe it would be hard to make a skidplate for the 4EAT. Usel a flat piece of 1/4 plate cut to the size of the pan. Then replace 4 of the pans corner bolts with studs. Use a nut on the stud to hold the pan lip. Then put a sleeve over the stud long enough to clear the pan, then bolt the plate onto the studs with the sleeve as a spacer. With the combined thickness of the pan and the plate you would never punch it hard enough to bust through. Espescially if you welded some ribs to it.

And once again it seems there is talk about the evils of the Center lock switch but no-one bothers to give details. What do you mean by "killed" the tranny with it. Can anbody tell me what actually happened to there trans and what they were doing for it to happen?

#20 Andyjo

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 10:08 PM

And once again it seems there is talk about the evils of the Center lock switch but no-one bothers to give details. What do you mean by "killed" the tranny with it. Can anbody tell me what actually happened to there trans and what they were doing for it to happen?


If you use a regular old switch, it will most likely burn out... if you use a relay, you will most likely have much better luck.
the problem is that when your switch burns out, your vehicle is stuck in '4eat-4wd' aka torque bind, etc...
if you drive around like this (for of like i did for 200 miles towing a trailer on the highway :eek: ) you'll end up burning the crap out of your center diff clutchpacks.... it's especially hard to notice when you have a massive tranny cooler... so the trans temp light doesn't come on... and it just chews itself up... not a good time...

#21 grossgary

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Posted 21 May 2007 - 07:46 AM

And once again it seems there is talk about the evils of the Center lock switch but no-one bothers to give details. What do you mean by "killed" the tranny with it. Can anbody tell me what actually happened to there trans and what they were doing for it to happen?

i don't think we need to revisit this idea of killing the trans. it's been beat over and over again in other threads, and i posted links to how he uses his soob offroad which i don't think typifies normal use. i think his experience would be anedotal..at best, not a sign of anything significant. i was happy to see this thread remain useful and informative in terms of the + and - of the 4EAT offroad.

#22 Gloyale

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Posted 21 May 2007 - 10:28 AM

If you use a regular old switch, it will most likely burn out... if you use a relay, you will most likely have much better luck.
the problem is that when your switch burns out, your vehicle is stuck in '4eat-4wd' aka torque bind, etc...
if you drive around like this (for of like i did for 200 miles towing a trailer on the highway :eek: ) you'll end up burning the crap out of your center diff clutchpacks.... it's especially hard to notice when you have a massive tranny cooler... so the trans temp light doesn't come on... and it just chews itself up... not a good time...



I set mine up so with connectors and a 10 amp inline fuse that do 2 things. First the fuse would have to burn out before the 20 amp rated switch. And I located the fuse and connector behind the radio trim which pops off easily in my car(no screws, clip style) So if my switch burns out I can easily remove it and connect the wires directly.

I'm curious, what type of realy setup are you talking about. Using the relay to break the circuit? A normally *on* relay that turns *off* with switched signal?

#23 grossgary

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Posted 21 May 2007 - 10:36 AM

i think i'm also going to install a bypass switch in the engine bay that allows me to disable anything in the cabin. that way i can disable the function if i let anyone borrow the car, my wife drives it and i might even use it myself. since my use is usually dedicated to the late fall and winter, i can probalby levae it disabled the rest of the year. and it's not that big of a deal to pop the hood in the limited times i use it the rest of the year.

#24 Gloyale

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Posted 21 May 2007 - 10:47 AM

I did all my wiring in the cab where the 4eat TCU harness plugs into the main harness in the footwell. I guess fo me to disable all I have to do is connect the clips I spoke of earlier behind the radio trim. I don't like having to pop my hood for driving functions. Heck I wired a switch into the FWD fuse so I don't have to get out to use it. Mostly I use it just to output TCU codes. But I figured it was easy enough to do so why not?




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