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Clutch pedal sits on floor, springs back up


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15 replies to this topic

#1 aaulick

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Posted 22 May 2007 - 11:15 AM

The other day a very odd thing happened:
I got in my '01 outback, pushed the clutch, started, and the clutch pedal didn't come back up, but it was working anyway.

It had maybe an inch or two of travel, and seemed to engage and disengage just fine in that inch or two. (at least well enough to back out of the driveway and start driving off down the hill.) I was lurching the car because normally the clutch does not engage so fast.

I reached down with my hand, and pulled it up. There was a little spring resistance, and then POP, back up. It's been totally normal since then.

Does this make sense to anybody? I'm pretty puzzled.

#2 Strakes

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Posted 22 May 2007 - 12:34 PM

See if this might be the issue:

Clutch Slave Cylinder TSB

NUMBER: 03-52-03R
DATE: 07/15/03

APPLICABILITY:
1995-2002MY Legacy;
1997-2003MY 2.5L Impreza; and
1998-2003MY Forester
All models have Manual Transmissions

SUBJECT:
Clutch Pedal Sticking (revised)

INTRODUCTION
In the event you encounter a customer complaint of the clutch pedal
not returning completely after being engaged, or has a spongy pedal
feel or a light feel in the shifting pedal while shifting, the
following repair method should be followed. This condition may affect
certain manual transmission vehicles with a hydraulic clutch system
under certain weather conditions.

PROCEDURE
To correct this condition you must replace the parts in the chart that
match your vehicle using the following procedure:

For Natural Aspiration models with hydraulic clutches
1) Remove the intake chamber from the backside of the intake manifold.
2) Remove the clutch hose and the clutch operating cylinder in this
procedure it is not necessary to remove the master cylinder, the
clutch pipe and bracket.
3) Replace the clutch hose and the clutch operating cylinder with new
parts as listed in the chart. Note that two pieces of gasket (P/N
114130151) used on the connector of the operating cylinder must be
replaced with new ones when replacing the clutch hose. Tightening
torque of the bolt is: 37 +/- 3 Nm (3.8 +/- 0.3 kgm) or 27 +/- 2 ft.
lbs.
4) Bolt the operating cylinder onto the transmission.
5) Add brake fluid.
6) Bleed the air from the system.
7) Install the intake chamber.
8) Check the following items:
a) Insure there is no leakage from the line, check whether fluid
leakage occurs after the clutch pedal has been fully depressed.
B) Check whether the clutch performs normally.

For Turbo models
1) Remove the intercooler.
2) Remove the dutch operating cylinder hose. In this procedure, the
clutch master cylinder, clutch pipe and bracket are unnecessary to be
removed.
3) Replace the clutch hose that was removed with the new one listed in
the chart. Note that two pieces of gasket (P/N 114130151) used on the
connector of the operating cylinder must be replaced with new ones
when replacing the clutch hose. Tightening torque of the bolt is: 37
+/- 3 Nm (3.8 +/- 0.3 kgm) or 27 +/- 2 ft.lbs.
4) Add brake fluid.
5) Bleed the air from the system.
6) Install the intercooler.
7) Check the following items:
a) Insure there is no leakage from the line, check whether fluid
leakage occurs after the clutch pedal has been fully depressed.

Posted Image

B) Check whether the clutch performs normally.
This change was incorporated in production after the VIN numbers shown.

Posted Image

#3 alexk02

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Posted 22 May 2007 - 01:30 PM

I have exactly the same problem, except my clutch is cable. 1999, Legacy Wagon, 30th anniversary. Any advice for this case? Was there a CSB for it?

Thanks,
Alex

#4 Tanispyre

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Posted 23 May 2007 - 08:54 AM

I have the same symptoms on my 1991 legacy turbo, for me, I have it happen more often when I clutch at the same time I am have to brake hard. I ususally just stick my toe under it and pop it back up. But it seems to work fine when it is stuck in the down position with its 3 inches of play. I dont get any slippage of the clutch.

#5 aaulick

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Posted 24 May 2007 - 07:39 PM

See if this might be the issue:

Clutch Slave Cylinder TSB
...


Well, "doesn't fully return" certainly describes it, kind of like dead people "aren't fully active". But there's no spongy or unusally light feel going on at all.

I think I'll see if it happens again before I go replacing clutch parts.

To the guy who has it happen when clutching and braking at the same time -- as I was getting in the car I mashed several pedals really hard because my wife left the seat all the way forward. Maybe it's triggered by stepping very hard on the clutch?

#6 Strakes

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Posted 25 May 2007 - 10:45 AM

I agree, see if it happens again before you throw money at it. The Technical Service Bulletin says that all conditions don't have to be met for it to be that. You definately have met the most common one. BTW, the total parts are about $75 for the slave cylinder, $5 for gaskets, and $25 for the hose. It's cheaper if you get the parts online at http://www.subarugenuineparts.com/ when, and if, it happens again and you decide to replace the parts according to the TSB.

Good luck!

#7 cookie

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Posted 25 May 2007 - 01:23 PM

Bleed the clutch and it may go for quite a while. On my 99 Forester I performed the service bulletin at about 90,000 miles and it was still not quite right.
After I changed the clutch master the car has been over 30,000 miles with no furthur problem.

#8 nickb21

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Posted 29 May 2007 - 11:07 AM

Wow.. what a coincidence. Similar thing happened to my 02 outback friday.

I previously bled the clutch around 75k (85k on it now). It was about 90 degrees here on friday and my clutch seemed to get slowly worse. It started that I could push an inch, then two inches, then 3 inches down on it before engaging. At the point that i had to bury my foot into the carpet to get it to engage it began to stick and pop back up. No leaks, full of fluid.

I'll have to go see if my VIN matches the TSB. Works fine now. I'm gonna bleed it first and see what happens.

The 'slave' looks easy to replace. Is the master difficult to change out? What is the 'intake chamber' (and is it hard to get at)?

#9 cookie

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Posted 29 May 2007 - 11:46 AM

On my 99 Forester both of them were very easy to change. I believe you have to remove part of the aircleaner assembly which would be the intake chamber or whatever. Thank God you don't have a BMW as this is miserable on my Roadster.
Welcome to the world of hydraulic clutches, this is standard for these. On trucks they were the most common failure. Your 02 is failing at just about the age my 99 did.
The good thing is that if you change both of them you are good for another 100,000 miles or so.
You can often limp by a while by bleeding but it is not a real fix. The air got in there somehow and it is usually from wear and failing seals. If they are far enough gone even bleeding won't help.

#10 nickb21

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Posted 05 June 2007 - 10:53 AM

Thanks for the reply cookie. I've got the 'slave' on order, apparently they didn't have any in stock.. nice.

When I asked about replacing the master cylinder, the parts guy pretty much said that "these never go bad". I'm all for replacing stuff before it fails, what is the opinion on the master? Worth to do so I don't have to worry about it for 100k?

Looks like this weekend should be fun!

#11 cookie

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Posted 05 June 2007 - 11:23 AM

you can often replace two slaves to one master. The slave works harder and is smaller making it go bad more easily.
This does not always work because like anything else parts can just fail. The odds are in your favor that it is the slave, but on my car it was the master that was the real culprit. I took subaru's advice first and only changed the master when I was sure I was not getting sufficent pressure.
I bet when I was a mechanic I changed 50 slaves on Ford C750s and only a couple of masters.

#12 nipper

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Posted 05 June 2007 - 11:27 AM

I have exactly the same problem, except my clutch is cable. 1999, Legacy Wagon, 30th anniversary. Any advice for this case? Was there a CSB for it?

Thanks,
Alex


a 1999 with a cable??!?!?!?!


nipper

#13 Strakes

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Posted 06 June 2007 - 09:37 AM

a 1999 with a cable??!?!?!?!


nipper


It's a really thin cable...really hard to see unless you have a high powered microscope.:grin:

#14 biffbradford

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Posted 23 September 2007 - 04:42 PM

Add me to the list. 98 OBW, 150k miles. Clutch pedal would move at most 1" off the floor and until it warmed up, I had to start off in 2nd, then go to 4th. Reverse could only be accessed with the engine off. :-\ After replacing the slave cylinder, the clutch works right at the top like it should. It took me a while to bleed the air out, but I did it myself with a hand vacuum pump to assist me.

The only problem I have now is what to do with all the time I have now that I'm not trying to pull the clutch pedal up with the side of my foot.

:rolleyes:

#15 alexk02

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Posted 25 September 2007 - 11:53 AM

Nipper, yes it is a cable on my '99. It is not an OBW, just Legacy wagon. Anyway, I discovered there was a fair amount of slack in that cable. I adjusted it (still within adjustment range ) and the pedal stays up now. Does not stick any more.

#16 cookie

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Posted 25 September 2007 - 11:56 AM

That's interesting, it seems they used the cable system on the 2.2 back then and the hydraulic on the 2.5.




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