54 replies to this topic

[Andyjo]

a while back there was a link, to a website where someone dropped out the 4eat, and tore it apart to replace the duty c and the clutch packs. I've searched here, google, can't seem to find it, anyone know where it is?
If not, does someone want to give me a quick run-down of how to do it?
I'm planning on doing it w/ the trans still in the car, i'll get lots of pics & post it in the USRM if someone tells me the general gist of it.
so far i pretty much know, the back end of the tranny & the drive shaft come out... and that's it :-\
any special tools needed to get the clutchpacks out?
if i remember the solenoid is just bolted in place.
Nevermind.. i'm stupid found em


http://www.ultimates...43&d=1124131329

[Olnick]

Nice pix, Andyjo!

[grossgary]

hope all goes well hotdog!

[Andyjo]

I'm ready to smell like ATF for a week or two
still need to go pick up the parts, but i think i'm gonna' try and pull down the rear housing tonight.
Think it's alright to support the tranny via the pan? since the rear housing is attached to the tranny mount :cool:

[grossgary]

i've "tilted" the trans before by undoing the rear trans crossmember. i can't recall how i did it, but i'd imagine i just placed something to spread the load out, a piece of lumber or whatever seems like the first thing that would pop in my head. blunt forces and small point loads would be bad, but otherwise i'm sure the pan can take it.

[johnceggleston]

these are thge part numbers from nipper when he had his done at the dealer. ON LINE PRICES ARE LESS.


31523AA420 PLATE SET- TRF CLUTCH 173.28
31942AA090 VALVE AY TRANSFER CLUTCH 112.94 (DUTY C SOLENOID)
806735210 OIL SEAL 19.20 (I THINK THIS IS FOR THE VALVE ASSEMBLY - DUTY C)
31337AA129 GASKET TRANS CASE REAR 8.78 (MY TRANS SHOP USED SILICONE or similar)
44022AA020 GASKET 16.64 (TWO REQUIRED) EXHAUST MANIFOLD GASKETS

for the record labor was 510.50. Also took 4 qts of tranny fluid.

careful when reassembling the case, you don't want to 'pinch' the duty c wire like bserk did.

good luck.

[Andyjo]

Thanks for the heads up! very useful info!

[Andyjo]

Alright, so i have the rear extension housing sitting in front of me right now... what does a burnt out clutch pack look like? :-p
and... is there a way to test the solenoid? i'm assuming if i ground the casing, and run +12v to the solenoid, the clutch pack should open up... assuming there'd be ATF there... but i should hear it do something, right?

[nipper]

Alright, so i have the rear extension housing sitting in front of me right now... what does a burnt out clutch pack look like? :-p
and... is there a way to test the solenoid? i'm assuming if i ground the casing, and run +12v to the solenoid, the clutch pack should open up... assuming there'd be ATF there... but i should hear it do something, right?

no.

Replace the solenoid. This is a duty solenoid. It rapidly opens and closes, it is not an on - off solenoid. The solenoid may fail under heat, or have a slow response time. You can not check that on a bench in your garage.

You can test the coil resistance.

You have gone this far, you really need to replace the wear parts. This is like rebuilding an engine and replacing only one main bearing.

Do a partial rebuild, and i will promise you you will be back in that transmission doing it all again.

nipper

PS

Why are you doing this anyway? Leave the duty switch on again ?

[Andyjo]

Do a partial rebuild, and i will promise you you will be back in that transmission doing it all again.

Why are you doing this anyway? Leave the duty switch on again ?

So what do you mean by a full rebuild? what other parts should i rip out while the tranny is freed up?
and... this is a result of the switch burning out the 1st time... i just never had the time to fix it, and it's not like i'd pay someone to do it for me :-p i just bought a new car instead... makes sense right?
oh yeah, so i was inspecting the other side of the tranny (the stuff that doesn't come out when you pull the rear end) and the thinger that goes into the clutch pack looked like it got a little aftermarket heat treating a little blued..... it's good for it right?
so yeah, i guess if i do what nipster says, what do i need to do to rebuild the sucker? :cool:

[nipper]

Blueing is bad on internal tranny parts. It means the part saw high heat and is no longer any good.

The parts list was listed John, so replace all those parts.


nipper

[Andyjo]

I was planning on replacing the clutches too, not just the solenoid :-p
but yeah... that shaft there may have to be replaced... i'll run up to the tranny shop tomorrow and see if they have any spares kickin' around... or if they know how to remove the clutches & the shaft part

[SVX_commuter]

I did this a few years ago on my SVX. Dropped the back of the trans off and replaced the Duty C. My car had no rear wheel drive. I worked under the car and everything went well. It took some time to get the clutch plates lined up so that the back end would go back on. I had to hold up the drive propeller shaft on the tran spline and rock back and forth while pushing the housing on. I was tired when I got done with THAT! I think it took about 1/2 hour. Everything was okay. I did that when it had about 130k on it. Now it has about 306k on it.

[Andyjo]

I did this a few years ago on my SVX. Dropped the back of the trans off and replaced the Duty C. My car had no rear wheel drive. I worked under the car and everything went well. It took some time to get the clutch plates lined up so that the back end would go back on. I had to hold up the drive propeller shaft on the tran spline and rock back and forth while pushing the housing on. I was tired when I got done with THAT! I think it took about 1/2 hour. Everything was okay. I did that when it had about 130k on it. Now it has about 306k on it.

so you just replaced the solenoid? any bites on how to get the clutch plates out?

[nipper]

so you just replaced the solenoid? any bites on how to get the clutch plates out?

Clutch assemblies are usually held together by a big snap ring.

In your case i would replace the clutches. Since you damaged them with the switch.



nipper

[Andyjo]

Clutch assemblies are usually held together by a big snap ring.
In your case i would replace the clutches. Since you damaged them with the switch.nipper

Nipster, you're my hero
after a close inspection of the system, i found the ring... getting it out.. i'll have to get creative on this one
here it is:

around the center shiney part.. yeah.. that one

oh, there's 2 actually, one around the center part, and one at the very top of the clutches. got it now!

[nipper]

Auto Transmissions are usually held together with snap rings



nipper

[johnceggleston]

some one posted an exploded view of the trans / transfer clutch housing a couple of months ago. i saved it but it's now lost. you might try end wrench.??

[Andyjo]

some one posted an exploded view of the trans / transfer clutch housing a couple of months ago. i saved it but it's now lost. you might try end wrench.??

and end wrench aye?
interesting.....
well i got the clutches out, and if i take out the smaller snap ring, i can pull the whole unit out i believe. then get ot the solenoid stuffs
the tranny shop said i could borrow any special tools if i need em

[SVX_commuter]

I did change the split seals the transfer shaft. As I remember i just knocked the whole assembly out of the housing.

I have never taken any clutch pack apart BUT I have been told that when the non-metallic layer is GONE the plate will not work. The non-metallic layer on the plate allows for the transfer of energy WITHOUT metal to metal sliding of the rings. That non-metallic layer is pretty thin to start with. I think that Subaru went to great lengths to make the 4EAT engage clutches with a minimal amount of wear.

The other problem/indicator i was told about that is common on transmissions that have been overhauled after a complete failure is grooves in the splines. The metal part of the clutch plate will sometimes cut grooves in the splines. This happens when the clutch plate does not spin and the spline does. The grooves can sort of interfer with the axial sliding of the clutch pack. All the clutch packs have axial clearance when not engaged. Without this clearance the packs would be locked all the time. The splines I could see on my SVX had some shallow grooves that took place after the teeth on the plates had worn.

Picture of the transfer valve is in the link below.

http://www.subaru-sv...muter/10783.jpg

Take care,
John

[jon38iowa]

If I can horn in on this thread a moment, I have two ?s:
How hard is to replace just the Duty C? Looks like it would only require removing the pan and unbolting the sensor.
What is this part # for a '99 Forester 4 EAT C/ 2.5 SOHC?
Thanks!

[johnceggleston]

What is this part # for a '99 Forester 4 EAT C/ 2.5 SOHC?
Thanks!

i don't know for sure, but i would start with the part number list above and search it at one of the online parts suppliers. one of them will give you actual subaru part numbers. most of them will let you look up a subaru part number for price and what it fits.

foresters are a pretty late model vehicle and the trans may be different. but i believe impreza and legacy use the same part. when i was checking the price at the local dealer, the parts guy comment ' they should all be the same', but i would double check.

i would be surprised if subaru developed a different AWD unit for each model. but i continue to surprise myself.

[Andyjo]

well, i'll le tyou know exactly how hard it is once i get back to NH... i'm jackin' wireless in albany right now
but yeah, it took me about 3.5 hours to get the rear extension housing out of the car if that gives you any idea, all you have to do it drop the exhaust, pull the drive shaft (easier than is sounds), pull a few heat shiels (if your car still has them :-p ) and then you're staring at the rear trranny housing, which has about... alot of bolts holding it on there.. you support the trans, take off the mounts, and then you rip the rear part off, i've been collecting a bunch of pics of the process, going to write up something when i get a chance.

[Andyjo]

Update (back in NH)...
you CAN air test the clutch pack/solenoid.. just got back from the tranny shop, my solenoid had a loose fit, so when you applied pressure, all the fluid goes out the bottom of the solenoid, around that seal, and NOT to the clutch pack like you want... pics when i get em

[Andyjo]

So... i got it all back together, and how when it's in AWD mode the tranny sort of ticks... i'm wondering if i missed a clutch when putting it back together... doing on launches on wet grass it seems like the AWD is working.. but very delayed, this could be due to using a used solenoid? or it could be the clutches i may have missed. OR... i put the parking switch thinger in wrong... hmmm... guess i've gotta' pull the whole thing down again :cool: