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94 loyale over heating at 60 mph


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#1 dude_4_sale

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Posted 05 June 2007 - 12:06 AM

i got a 94 loyale thats over heating at 60 mph. i have flushed the radiator and checked the thermostat and its still good. the fans are running so they are good. changed the oil and pump is also good. i didnt realize when i bought the car that it would only do 75 at most and end up over heating. anyone else with this prob or suggestions that could help both top speed and over heating probs?

thanx

#2 daeron

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Posted 05 June 2007 - 12:20 AM

The best advice is to first, carefully move your hand over the entire surface of the radiator while its hot, feeling the coils for cooler spots. This indicates clogged areas of the radiator, and if you find alot of areas clogged then you wont be able to flush it clean. If it is clogged, or if the fins are rotted away at all, it has to be replaced.

It is probably worth your time to drain the radiator and remove it; it really isn't that difficult. Look through the coils to make sure they are clean; if not, spray them down with some simple green and blast the coils with the hose. Again, if the fins disintegrate because they are rusted, then the radiator needs to be replaced. SOME fin rot is acceptable, but you need the fins to dissipate the heat out into the passing air.

There is a good chance that your thermostat is the root of your problem, even though it is new. Could there be something flushed loose stuck on the thermostat, or did you replace it after flushing the engine? Even the new thermostat could be bad, honestly. I have heard recommendations to use nothing but OEM Subaru thermostats.. alot of people do use Stant brand, but supposedly the Subaru is far superior to that one, which seems better than most other aftermarket brands. If you have one of another make, try taking it out and see if you still overheat. I run without a thermostat, but I live in south Florida and the car never sees temperatures below 60 degrees. I do not recommend running without a thermostat long term for many reasons; but I personally ignore my own advice. Short term, it will cause no real problems.

Check all of your hoses, and make sure none of them are collapsing at speed for any reason...

Another possibility is a bad water pump. If you still overheat, then you might as well do the water pump, and unless the timing belts are less than 40K miles old, replace them too.

There is also the remote possibility of bad headgkasets, but overheating and bad headgaskets go hand in hand in these cars. If you havent seen the red, you stand pretty good odds with your head gaskets.. unless the problem persists with a known good radiator, water pump, hoses, thermostat, etc. I won't even get into any of the HG stuff because it is probably something simpler.

#3 edrach

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Posted 05 June 2007 - 01:12 AM

Does the car run without overheating at 50mph? Does it run hotter as you increase speed? If the answer is yes to both questions, the most likely reason is a restricted radiator. After you've eliminated all the other likely causes, replace the radiator.

#4 edrach

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Posted 05 June 2007 - 01:17 AM

Replacing the radiator is pretty easy and a new after market one isn't too costly. Try Spalding Auto Parts (800 366-2070) for a price quote of a radiator shipped to your location. I paid $100 shipped to my door for the last one I've bought from them.

#5 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 05 June 2007 - 06:42 AM

i didnt realize when i bought the car that it would only do 75 at most and end up over heating.


Your timing may be drastically off. 75 should not be the top speed. They aren't fast cars by any stretch of the imagination, but my 86 carbed EA82 can do well over 100..... your's should be faster as it's got 6 more HP stock.

Make sure the timing is properly set at 20 degrees BTDC. If it is, you may consider checking to see if the timing belt drive sprockets on the crank got mixed up - there's an inner and and outer. The inner one has a groove for the front crank seal. If they are reversed the engine will still run but will be down on power and may overheat.

Likely the overheating is a result of Florida temps and an old radiator. It's best to replace them as they are cheap and don't do well with any amount of corrosion.

GD

#6 Gloyale

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Posted 05 June 2007 - 09:06 AM

i got a 94 loyale thats over heating at 60 mph. i have flushed the radiator and checked the thermostat and its still good. the fans are running so they are good. changed the oil and pump is also good.

thanx


How do you know the pump is good? Has it been replaced? Just cause it's not leaking does not mean it is fine. If the car has been run with just water in it then the impeller fins may have rusted away, although if this was the case it would get hot at other times as well. Also how did you test the T-stat. They can appear to open fine but in actuallity not work well enough to hold a temp in these engines. Replace it. With a Subaru one. It's worth the few dollars for peace of mind.


I agree with GD as well that you should be able to get more than 75, but my Carbed subarus never made 100. Still I think you're timing may be off. Check it or have it checked and set to 20 degrees btdc. The marks are under a small rubber cover on the back of the motor and the timning shoulod be set with the Green test connectors near strut top connected. The two outer timing belt covers should be removed and the belts verified as well. Probably first before ignition timing.

#7 robm

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Posted 05 June 2007 - 10:33 AM

It could very likely be a timing belt. I missed by a tooth, and the power was down and the temperature went up. Worth checking, especially if the belts have been changed recently.

#8 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 05 June 2007 - 10:34 AM

but my Carbed subarus never made 100.


Gots me a Weber..... 2WD vs. 4WD makes a big difference too. My 2WD EA81 with a Weber would do 110 before it reached equilibrium with the wind. I can easily hit 100 with my EA82 5 speed 4WD. Perhaps it's the Weber helping, or perhaps it's just a good engine.... couldn't get out of it's own way with a running start on the Hitachi I got it with :)

GD

#9 dude_4_sale

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Posted 05 June 2007 - 11:49 PM

my ignition timing is set at 20 btdc so i know thats not it. i will check the timing belts this weekend. the person i bought the car from said they just did the water pump. i will also pull of the radiator and check it too. as far as doing 75, i get to 65 and im already doin 3000 rpm. how high can i run it with no damage. im not expecting to do 100 but i would like to keep up with traffic at 85 -90 at most. if it wouldnt over heat i could do 80 but i would be close to red line. seems the gears arent long enough. my car is 4wd so dont know if that is a major factor or not. are the turbo motor trans any longer on the gears and will they bolt right on? anyone else running with this high rpm problem?

#10 daeron

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Posted 06 June 2007 - 02:04 AM

65 at 3000 equals 130 at 6000... youve probably got more top speed, but you have to max it out. I run around with my 2wd 3AT at 4200 RPM doing 70 all day and dont blink; I have had it up to 102 and it still had a couple more ticks it could have made..

However, if the engine refuses to pull beyond that point, it sounds VERY likely that you've got a timing belt that has skipped a tooth. This engine should rev freely and happily all the way to 6000 RPM and more, with power, in gear.

What transmission/driveline do you have, btw?

#11 Gloyale

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Posted 06 June 2007 - 10:06 AM

my ignition timing is set at 20 btdc so i know thats not it. i will check the timing belts this weekend. the person i bought the car from said they just did the water pump. i will also pull of the radiator and check it too. as far as doing 75, i get to 65 and im already doin 3000 rpm. how high can i run it with no damage.


Is that 20 degrees with the Green test connectors connected(disconnect them when done)They are behind the drivers strut tower, under the hood. Redline is 6500 but subaru does say not to rev over 4000 for "extended periods" so I wouldn't just cruise at 5000 rpms. BUT
You can rev these to 4000-4500 rpm all day long. Which should equate to about 80-85. I got a ticket for 84 in a 70 once in North Dakota, In an 86 Carbed so I know they can get up there.

Since the T belts were most likely removeed during the Water pump replacement , I think It's very likely that either the crank pulleys got switched or one or both belts is off a tooth.

#12 daeron

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Posted 06 June 2007 - 01:37 PM

Redline is 6500 but subaru does say not to rev over 4000 for "extended periods" so I wouldn't just cruise at 5000 rpms.


*looks around*

Huh? I don't know what youre talking about. :grin:

my little brother put it best, I think, when he said it plainly. "It's a Japanese engine. It loves bangin' off the rev limiter!" He was talking about something else, but they all seem to like it if you ask me :lol:

#13 dude_4_sale

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Posted 06 June 2007 - 02:27 PM

i have 4wd 5 speed manual. my friend has a 86 2wd 3 speed auto and he is having the same prob. got the cars from the same person so if it is the timing belts then a guess good chance that both cars have the same prob. im kinda putting the timing belts off as a last result kinda thing cuz i have to take everything off and discharge the air conditioning. so any thing else i should check before that, that isnt already listed?

65 at 3000 equals 130 at 6000... how'd u get that? im doin 3000 in 5th gear.

#14 Gloyale

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Posted 06 June 2007 - 02:46 PM

im kinda putting the timing belts off as a last result kinda thing cuz i have to take everything off and discharge the air conditioning. so any thing else i should check before that, that isnt already listed?

65 at 3000 equals 130 at 6000... how'd u get that? im doin 3000 in 5th gear.



Theres no need to dischage the AC to do the belts. Infact, at least the allingment of the belts can be verified by removing only the end covers on both sides. This will give you a vew of the pulleys and there marking(they should be 45 Degrees and opposite each other w/flywheel at TDC. Or straight up and down opposite w/flywheel on center of 3 disty allingment marks), and the crank marks are on the Flywheel. Even to change the belts you can just unbolt the AC bracket, disconnect the wires to it but leavthe lines attached, and just fold it back out of the way into the spare tire area. the radiator doesn't even needto come out, but it helps. The A/C condensor in front of the radiator is not in the way at all.

Keep in mind these cars are fairly slow by todays standards, even when running well. Espescially when mated to the 2wd. Eliminate all the other possible causes of overheating, and perhaps you'll find with a tune up and some RPMs she'll get moving fast enough for ya. But you should at least check the alingment of the belts.

#15 daeron

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Posted 06 June 2007 - 05:57 PM

65 at 3000 equals 130 at 6000... how'd u get that? im doin 3000 in 5th gear.


Arbitrary numbers, and just doubling.. if at 3K RPM you can do fifty mph, then at 6K RPM you will do 100. The speedo in my datsun didn't work, and for four years I monitored my speed based on one "calibration run" (confirmed by other vehicles, but the first shot gave me my baseline.) At 2000 RPM in fifth gear, I was doing 50 MPH.. so it was 25MPH for each 1000 RPM. 4K=100mph, etc.. Based on this math I figured out speeds in second, third, and fourth gear as well, eventually.. (enough time behind the wheel with no stereo to distract me leads me inexplicably to finding and solving mental math problems. dont ask, i dont know)

#16 dude_4_sale

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Posted 06 June 2007 - 08:26 PM

i called the person i bought the car from and she said that her husband changed the timing belts and when they did they either put the pully on and marks didnt match up. she said not to go by the book cuz they wouldnt match. she had to have someone come to her house and fix it. so i dont know if they even come close now. what do i look at to see if they are even close? as far as over heating as soon as i get to 45 - 50 it begins to heat up. sure hope the timing belts are the prob. i took the thermostat out and it still over heated so thats not the prob. anyone been in there with the same prob or alot of info about the marks?

#17 Gloyale

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Posted 06 June 2007 - 08:41 PM

She is wrong about going by the book. She either has the wrong book or is not understanding it right.

To check them, remove the outer covers at both ends of the motor. Remove the spare tire and pull the rubber cap out of the back of teh motor to view the flywheel. Use a 22mm socket to turn the crankshaft until you see 3 small lines(not the numbered timing lines, seperate from those about 90 deg. past them) on the flywheel and line up the center of the 3 with the pointer. If the belts are correct the marks (small dot) on the Belt pulleys will be pointing straight up, and straight down(one each, the cam pulleys marks should always be excactly opposite eachother)

Alternately you can set the flywheel to Zero TDC on the numbered lines, and the Cam pulley marks should be at a 45 degree angle, but still excactly opposite of eachother.

There is a slight difference between the 2 sprockets that drive each belt from the crankshaft. If they are installed wrong it can cause at least a los of power. Here is a very lenghty thread about that. http://www.ultimates...cket real truth
Disregard BDGs posts. Go by WJMs info. If you find that the belts are close but off by just a couple degrees you will want to remove the covers and reset them. Check that the pulleys are correct at that point before reassembly.

#18 dude_4_sale

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Posted 06 June 2007 - 09:21 PM

is there anyway to put the pully on wrong. like turn the pully and then bolt on or what? she said when they replaced them that they lined them up and the car didnt run. they had someone come over and fix it and the lines didnt match... if u really cant mess it up as far as installing pullies wrong then i hope i can match them up.

#19 Gloyale

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Posted 06 June 2007 - 09:29 PM

is there anyway to put the pully on wrong. like turn the pully and then bolt on or what? she said when they replaced them that they lined them up and the car didnt run. they had someone come over and fix it and the lines didnt match... if u really cant mess it up as far as installing pullies wrong then i hope i can match them up.



They may have been trying to line up the Cam Pulley dots both straight up. Or lining them straight up and down when the crank is at Zero instead of to the 3 little lines.

One straight up, one straight down= crank at center of 3 lines

One 45 up and out, one at 45 down and out = Crank at Zero TDC.

If the belts are correct both of these statements will be true.

The 2 crank sprockets can get reversed, but it will still run like that. But the Cam pulleys only go on one way because of the locator dowels between the 3 bolts. I'll bet your belts are just 1 or 2 teeth off.

#20 GeneralDisorder

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Posted 07 June 2007 - 02:17 AM

Keep in mind these cars are fairly slow by todays standards, even when running well. Espescially when mated to the 2wd.


That's just not true. The 2WD's are actually quite a bit faster on the top end. It has to do with the gearing and weight mostly. The 4WD's *feel* faster off the line, but that's largely an effect of the lower gearing in the diff's.

As far as RPM's go, the redline of the EA82 carb engine is 6,000 RPM, and Subaru's reccomendation of "no more than 4,000" for extended periods is just their usual line of over-cautiousness that was typical of their 80's models. The EA81 and EA82 share essentially the same block with the EA82's being built slightly beefier in the main bearings and ring lands. Despite this, the experimental aircraft community routinely run the EA81 blocks at around 7,000 to 7,500 RPM continuously for many hours on end. The rods are very short and thick due to the nature of the boxer design, and some have estimated their burst speed at something north of 11,000 RPM. Indeed the ring lands, pistons, head gaskets, and heads all have many times higher failure rates. Typically those failures are a result of pushing the turbo EA82's too far with added boost and/or added compression. Rod failures aren't all that common and are always a result of badly worn bearings. I've been in the mud and reved out to 6 or 7 thousand over and over while trying to free myself - never has it resulted in a catostrophic failure. Indeed I had a rod blow on my first off-road engine doing 65 MPH on the freeway :rolleyes: due to lack of proper oil pressure from a worn out pump. Had nothing to do with RPM's.

Basically your timing is probably hosed, and you are being too cautious with the revs. Set the timing straight and go from there.

GD

#21 Gloyale

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Posted 07 June 2007 - 10:21 AM

Keep in mind these cars are fairly slow by todays standards, even when running well. Espescially when mated to the 2wd.



As far as the 2wd comment, I meant to say when mated to the 3spd automatic. Which in this case was the 2wd car he mentioned. 2wd 5spds are quicker for sure. The 3at is a dog. It was late and my brain was not working.

That's just not true.


With 90 HP, EA82 cars ARE slow by todays standards. C'mon, we all know it. Espescially in there bone stock versions, with all there emmisions stuff and no weber. There not as bad as say, a volkswagon Bus or a Yugo. But they are not nearly as powerful as newer cars. It's sad to say, but I used to get beat by minivans and Corrollas all the time. I could take them till about 25-30 mph, but after that, the free breathing, 21st century engines are faster. Espescially at highway speeds. The EA82 will get up to 85-90 mph, but it tkaes a while and hills will bog it down.

I was only trying to tell the OP not to expect this car to be the fastest on the freeway.

#22 dude_4_sale

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Posted 07 June 2007 - 01:28 PM

i pulled the right hand side timing cover off and the mark on the camshaft sprocket is straight down. its not pointing up at the other mark. could she have got the left and right side sprockets mixed up?

#23 Gloyale

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Posted 07 June 2007 - 01:41 PM

i pulled the right hand side timing cover off and the mark on the camshaft sprocket is straight down. its not pointing up at the other mark. could she have got the left and right side sprockets mixed up?


The left and right pulleys are the same and interchagable. The dots can either be straight up or straight down. Bacause the crank turns twice for every one turn of the Cams. The 2 cam pulleys should always be opposite eachother, one straight up, and one straight down. That's when the crank is on the 3 little lines anyway. When the Crank is at 0 degrees TDC the marks shuold be at 45% Slanted out, but still opposite to the other one. Do you have the crank lined up at 0 TDC or at the 3 little marks?

Rotate the motor another full turn. The dot should now be straight up.
But both sides should be excactly opposite each other always.

#24 dude_4_sale

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Posted 07 June 2007 - 01:45 PM

i have it at the 3 marks. i havent pulled the other side off to see if they are opposite. i will post back in a bit when i get the other side off.

thanx

#25 Gloyale

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Posted 07 June 2007 - 01:46 PM

i have it at the 3 marks. i havent pulled the other side off to see if they are opposite. i will post back in a bit when i get the other side off.

thanx


Just a tip, the left side cover has one bolt with a nut on the back. It's the lowest, closest to middle of engine one. You'll need to put a 10mm wrench on the back or it will spin




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