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Stripped threads!!!


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15 replies to this topic

#1 kimokalihi

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Posted 10 June 2007 - 08:45 AM

I was replacing a oil pump and when I put the new one on I stripped every bolt on the stupid thing. I used a torque wrench and only set it to 8ft/lbs! Unbelievable!

The bolts will get sort of tight but they won't get tight enough to click the torque wrench, they just get a certain tightness and keep spinning. I know the wrench works because it's brand new and I tested it on the fender bolt. It seems like it's tight enough that it won't leak but I can't be sure of that unless I put it all back together and drive it for a while.

The only way I could really fix it would be to yank the whole engine and drill the holes out and then rethread them with a helicoil. I REALLY do not want to do that. This has been a major pain already.

Do you think locktite or something would be sufficient? What are my options here? This really sucks.

#2 Gloyale

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Posted 10 June 2007 - 10:55 AM

Do you think locktite or something would be sufficient?



NO.

This is you're oil pump. The heart of you're engine. You could probably bump up a size in bolts rather than helicoil. But the threads need to be fixed. You shouldn't have to pull the engine for this. Pull the radiator for room if you need it.

Just curiousity, did you clean the threads of the bolts and the holes before reinstalling? It's very important to chase out the threads with a tap before reassembly on any of these engines critical bolts. I wouldn't use a ft/lb torque wrench on these small bolts either. ft/lb wrenches aren't able to be accurate at that low of a scale.
You'd be better off with hand tightening with a 3/8 socket til *snug*. Or an in/lb wrench if you've got one.

#3 ron917

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Posted 10 June 2007 - 12:36 PM

Loctite makes a product called "Form-A-Thread" for exactly this type of situation. It is very different from the normal Loctite used to keep fasteners from rattling loose. I've used it on valve cover fasteners on a VW and a Volvo.

#4 tcspeer

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Posted 10 June 2007 - 12:50 PM

I used J.B. weld on the power steering hose line connector, and it held, I put it on the threads and in the hole and then tighten the bolt down as tight as it would go without spinning around again.

#5 tcspeer

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Posted 10 June 2007 - 01:00 PM

On my 2.2 engine the oil pump mounting bolts call for 48 t0 60 in. lbs so at 8 ft. pounds you had 96 in. lbs. I done this same thing with my transmission pan bolts, so I know how it can happen. I gave up on mine and took it back to the dealer it was nearly a 300.00 dollar mistake for me. You might try getting new bolts at the dealer maybe you will be lucky and only have the bolts stripped and not the holes.

#6 Finsol

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Posted 10 June 2007 - 01:56 PM

drill them out and re-thread them. only true fix.

#7 grossgary

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Posted 10 June 2007 - 02:06 PM

this is probably salvagable and you can do it yourself.
DO NOT use JB weld or locktite thread goop on this. i don't care that it "might" work or that anecodotal cases were successful, this is a low percentage solution given it's your oil pump. please do not do that, at least not yet.

there is no need to remove the engine and you can do this yourself.
here's what you really should do:

first get a tap and die. a tap creates threads, use it to clean the original threads in the block. just take a bolt into the store and check the size/thread. get the right tap and die. use the tap to chase the threads in the block. run the tap in and out a few times, making the threads squeaky clean. turn it a bit, back it off, turn it in more, back it off, it's a gradual process. this will gaurantee your bolt and holes have identical threads and that they are clean. now...find out how deep the holes are, i've done this a number of times and while i've never done an EJ22 oil pump hole, every other one i've ever done, the hole is deeper than the original bolt.

so....with clean threads, figure out how deep the holes are and buy bolts that are the right length. you want to use bolts that are longer than stock, but don't bottom out. you'll reach new, unused threads that way...as well as using the original threads that you just chased and cleaned up. you might need to buy some that are too long and cut them to size or use washers under the heads for extra clearance. a dremel, sawzall, or cutting wheel works fine for cutting the bolt...then after cutting chase it with the die so the threads are nice and cleaned up.

i've done this numerous times, it saves a ton of effort and works perfectly. no drilling the block or using a helicoil and no shady attempts at getting locktite to work.

in the event the holes aren't any deeper than the original bolts (keeping in mind some of the length of the bolt is taken up by the thickness of the oil pump), then you can do all of this, chase the block and bolt threads and still try to use those. you might get lucky. but....i'm guessing the holes are at least a little bit deeper....the've always been on water pump bolts, timing pulleys...etc.

i know that sounds long, but it's not all that difficult.

you also might be able to find a standard size bolt/thread option that can be tapped within the size of that hole. i've done that before as well. you'll looking for a size that's just a little bit bigger than what the current size is. you can probably even go up one metric size bolt...if it's a 6mm now, go to a 7mm. buy a tap for the 7mm and tap each hole. buy new bolts and go to town.

those are two methods that don't require any drilling into the block and you can easily do yourself.

if for some reason you can't pull this off there are other options...helicoil isn't all that bad and can be done with the engine in the car. rent a right angle drill or get a right angle drill attachment (preferably a very short one for clearance). i've had to do this before and it will work as well. you don't need to drill much, just enough to get one insert in there, not the entire bolt depth.

#8 tcspeer

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Posted 10 June 2007 - 02:24 PM

O.K. your way does sound better, but I am still not throwing away my J.B. weld. you know it was invented here in Tx. and we believe in it.

this is probably salvagable and you can do it yourself.
DO NOT use JB weld or locktite thread goop on this. i don't care that it "might" work or that anecodotal cases were successful, this is a low percentage solution given it's your oil pump. please do not do that, at least not yet.

there is no need to remove the engine and you can do this yourself.
here's what you really should do:

first get a tap and die. a tap creates threads, use it to clean the original threads in the block. just take a bolt into the store and check the size/thread. get the right tap and die. use the tap to chase the threads in the block. run the tap in and out a few times, making the threads squeaky clean. turn it a bit, back it off, turn it in more, back it off, it's a gradual process. this will gaurantee your bolt and holes have identical threads and that they are clean. now...find out how deep the holes are, i've done this a number of times and while i've never done an EJ22 oil pump hole, every other one i've ever done, the hole is deeper than the original bolt.

so....with clean threads, figure out how deep the holes are and buy bolts that are the right length. you want to use bolts that are longer than stock, but don't bottom out. you'll reach new, unused threads that way...as well as using the original threads that you just chased and cleaned up. you might need to buy some that are too long and cut them to size or use washers under the heads for extra clearance. a dremel, sawzall, or cutting wheel works fine for cutting the bolt...then after cutting chase it with the die so the threads are nice and cleaned up.

i've done this numerous times, it saves a ton of effort and works perfectly. no drilling the block or using a helicoil and no shady attempts at getting locktite to work.

in the event the holes aren't any deeper than the original bolts (keeping in mind some of the length of the bolt is taken up by the thickness of the oil pump), then you can do all of this, chase the block and bolt threads and still try to use those. you might get lucky. but....i'm guessing the holes are at least a little bit deeper....the've always been on water pump bolts, timing pulleys...etc.

i know that sounds long, but it's not all that difficult.

you also might be able to find a standard size bolt/thread option that can be tapped within the size of that hole. i've done that before as well. you'll looking for a size that's just a little bit bigger than what the current size is. you can probably even go up one metric size bolt...if it's a 6mm now, go to a 7mm. buy a tap for the 7mm and tap each hole. buy new bolts and go to town.

those are two methods that don't require any drilling into the block and you can easily do yourself.

if for some reason you can't pull this off there are other options...helicoil isn't all that bad and can be done with the engine in the car. rent a right angle drill or get a right angle drill attachment (preferably a very short one for clearance). i've had to do this before and it will work as well. you don't need to drill much, just enough to get one insert in there, not the entire bolt depth.



#9 kimokalihi

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Posted 10 June 2007 - 02:46 PM

Alright, I guess I'll take another look at it and see if I can tap it.

The book called for 96in/lbs...and I looked that up on the internet and it says 12in/lbs per foot lb and that should be 8 ft/lbs, right?

Also, another confession...This is not on my legacy that's in my signature. It's on a 98 chevy metro. I'm sorry for posting this in here but I looked at how many people look in the off topic section and I didn't think I get any replies, at least not fast enough.

There's hardly any room between the end of the block and the fender wheel well. Maybe the angle drill might work, I don't have one but I'll have to take another look and see if one will even fit. I'm going to guess that there's about 4 inches of room, 6 max. I'll go get a picture of it right now just to show you guys and see what you think.

#10 kimokalihi

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Posted 10 June 2007 - 03:14 PM

Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image

Those pictures are terrible sorry. They were from my phone. The lighting was poor and there's no flash.

The picture taken from through the wheel well is misleading. It looks as if I've pretty much got a clear shot of the pump but I don't. It was taken pretty low so you don't really see the wheel well in the way like you would if it had been straight on.

Anyways, I gotta go help a friend with his water pump. This time I will not be using the torque wrench. Usually I just do it by hand but since I got this new torque wrench I was like hmm, why not do things by the book? The metal shouldn't have been bad, the engine is pretty clean, 96K miles on it and I don't think it's ever been changed before.

#11 grossgary

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Posted 10 June 2007 - 06:09 PM

O.K. your way does sound better, but I am still not throwing away my J.B. weld. you know it was invented here in Tx. and we believe in it.

wasn't trying to knock your methods, but in my experience JB weld is a very low percentage fix. yes, i've seen it work too. but i've seen it fail as well. in areas that experience any type of load or vibration i would not use it. it is strong, but it's brittle as well.

#12 desert dweller

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Posted 16 June 2007 - 12:51 AM

Invest in a Time Sert for this. It's like a heli coil but ten times better and it's the right way to do it.

#13 kimokalihi

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Posted 16 June 2007 - 08:59 AM

It's all back together. Um, I did not have enough room to drill the threads out and did not want to pull the engine and tranny. I put the new oil pump on and tightened the bolts by hand this time and they got pretty tight. If I tried making them really tight they would just keep turning but I think it was plenty tight enough.

It's running great now and I don't think it's leaking at all. I just don't have the time to take the whole engine out and mess with it. I even bought a right angle bosch drill and a ryobi drill and drill bits and a right angle drill adapter for a regular drill but still wasn't going to have enough room to get it in there with the drill bit in. So I returned all that crap for 360 bucks back and said F it.

Only problem it seems to have is a squeaky belt because I need to tighten it more.

Thanks for the suggestions though.

What's the time sert thing and where do you get it? For future reference. This has happened before, sort of. Mainly exhaust bolts on my toyota that I sold.

#14 grossgary

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Posted 16 June 2007 - 12:41 PM

GAH!!! i left out a step, sorry about that. you need to break the drill bit in half for it fit in front of the engine. do that and it will work with no engine pulling nonsense.

heck, even revoming the condensor and maybe even the bumper would be easier than pulling the engine. they come out very easily actually. should have given you my phone number. well, now you'll know what to do if it's starts leaking. given the heating, expanding and contracting it would not surprise me at all if it starts leaking at some point, so keep an eye on it.

#15 kimokalihi

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Posted 17 June 2007 - 08:55 AM

You are aware that this is not my legacy, right? It's my new car, the chevy metro. The frame and fender well are in the way. Can't do anything about that. Even if I did break the bits in half, I still don't think it would be enough...MAYBE. Oh well, it's all done with now. Just have to keep checking it and hope for the best!

That thing is kind of peppy for a 3 cylinder! I was slightly suprised. It's not fast but I expected it to be slower at 55hp. I think that's what it's got. Might be 45 actually and the 4 cylinder might be 55hp. I can't remember.

#16 Reveeen

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Posted 17 June 2007 - 10:33 AM

Well if the thing flies to F***

You can always try this:
http://www.utterpowe.../10hp_chevy.htm




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