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Guest Message by DevFuse
 

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swap 2.5 to 2.2


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20 replies to this topic

#1 AZTOAK

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Posted 03 July 2007 - 08:24 PM

:confused: I know this sounds like beating a dead horse but: A bunch of the info is confusing to me being new to Subarus. I have a 96 legacy outback auto with a bad 2.5. I just purchased a donor 96 legacy (non-outback) 5spd with a good 2.2. My sis in law wants to keep her auto, will I have to find an ecu from a 2.2 auto and what other issues are for or against me. I am doing this for her to keep from having drive her and her kids around every single day since her 2.5 just started dropping a quart every 100 feet.:mad: The shop wanted $915 to start with the basics, then I saw this cheap donor and I said lets try it.

Thx.
J

#2 AZTOAK

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Posted 03 July 2007 - 11:13 PM

:Flame:

#3 MilesFox

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Posted 04 July 2007 - 01:53 AM

from what i have been told is the 2.2 is a direct plug and play. that simple

#4 Skip

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Posted 04 July 2007 - 09:16 AM

as Miles says, plug and play.

Your donner has everything you'll need.
Keep the Outback ECU.

You need the head pipe and the flex plate.
(i.e. one will be a twin port exhaust the other a single,
remove the flywheel and instal the flex plate)

There maybe some EGR issues depending on the 2.2 series.
The purge cannister plumbing may be a bit different.
Swap some mounts (PS and AC) -> good to go.

There are many many posts on this with complete
detailed sections.

Good luck, my swap was a piece of cake but I started
with a 95 2.2L

#5 AZTOAK

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Posted 05 July 2007 - 11:05 AM

Hey thanks for the info, I will be doing it this w/e so I will keep you posted. After seeing some of this boards soob's, I will be trying to find info on lifting the wrecked donor a little bit and try to repair the 2.5 or find another $200 donor for it.:banana:

#6 grossgary

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Posted 05 July 2007 - 11:16 AM

if your 2.2 doesn't have the EGR valve, i'd work on getting rid of it anyway. actually i'd just get rid of the EGR valve entirely no matter what. my wife's EGR valve has some issue....replaced the EGR valve, replaced the solenoid, then that little disc thing associated with it...still throwing the check engine light and shifting like rump roast. i'm annoyed, EGR's suck, i don't care what EGR lovers have to say about it, i say get rid of it and save yourself the hassle, that's my next step. sorry i'm wounded at the moment!

good luck on the swap, you'll find it quite simple.

#7 AZTOAK

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Posted 05 July 2007 - 03:20 PM

Thanks, I will check into that. As long as I can get the ecu to overlook it and not throw a code, and so long as the IM station doesn't notice. Currently it is registered in Oregon where there is no IM and I am in Alaska. The popo's are pretty thin here so I should be able to get along for a while without switching the reg. They are also very leanient as long as you have ins.:)

#8 grossgary

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Posted 05 July 2007 - 03:44 PM

i have late model (97) 2.2's that have EGR and don't have EGR, so based on what i have i wasn't sure what yours would be. more than likely it should have the EGR set up, so it should be a straight, no brainer swap. in researching my EGR issue, it seems the solenoid on the passengers side strut tower will also cause EGR issues when it fails...with accompanying trans shifting issues as well, so probably a good idea to grab that solenoid off your parts car just in case you ever have problems. i plan on swapping mine out tonight when i get home.

#9 AZTOAK

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Posted 10 July 2007 - 03:56 PM

Thanks, It looks like 2.2 doesn't have the egr, so I may have issues there.:confused: It was on the 2.5 however. I pulled both motors and swapped the flex plate over to the 2.2 so far.:clap: I did remove both exhausts up to and including the cat?. The 2.5 had one O2 sensor on what appears to be the cat up front and another O2 sensor on what appears to be the muffler out back. :confused: The 2.2 has both O2 sensors on the cat. The local shop said the 2.5 was throwing egr and cat. codes so I guess the cat. needs to be replaced. So one is a cat and one is a muffler right? Because they look about the same and are the same size, I thought otherwize they might both be cats?:Flame:

#10 86BRATMAN

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Posted 10 July 2007 - 09:58 PM

The code for the "cat" on the 2.5 is probably the primary o2 sensor, just FYI. They generally throw a catylist below threshold code when the primary need to be changed.

#11 AZTOAK

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Posted 11 July 2007 - 01:01 AM

Oh cool, thanks. I will have her replace them.:banana: Now i'm dropping the motor in and I can't push/wiggle the motor all the way up to the auto transmission by hand. :banghead: I took it back out to assess the sitch and it looked ok. :-\ I don't have much experience with auto trannys or soob's so I am not sure if you can push it all the way up by hand. It is within about 1/2 inch/12mm and I could draw it up tight with the bolts but I don't like the idea of doing it that way. Does this sound like a concern?:confused:

#12 86BRATMAN

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Posted 11 July 2007 - 02:03 AM

Please god don't force the tranny together...

You don't have the torque convertor seated correctly. You must put it on first, make sure its fully seated. From what I hear the last 1/4-1/2 inch is the most difficult to get correct.

#13 AZTOAK

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Posted 11 July 2007 - 09:36 AM

Thank you, I will pull it back out tonight but I am not sure what to look for, is there a trick? Could I be doing it wrong? If it was a different vehicle without the crossmember there, I could have put the torqe converter on the tranny first, but I don't think that Is possible with this animal. I noticed, when I pulled the 2.5 junk out that the little splined shaft inside a splined shaft on the tranny had pulled out several inches, but with a push/twist it went right back in. Right now it is out about 3/4 inch passed the o-ring, maybe that is wrong.

#14 86BRATMAN

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Posted 11 July 2007 - 09:42 AM

you've gott put the convertor on before putting the motor in, just like any other car. Look at the passenger's side top of the motor, where the bell housing bolts up. There should be a rubber plug or an open hole of significant size. Use that hole to put in the tc bolts one at a time, you'll of course have to rotate the engine to do this.

#15 AZTOAK

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Posted 11 July 2007 - 09:53 AM

Holy crap, thats what I am doing wrong. :mad: I have never dealt with an auto outside of a geo1.0 before and I didn't have probs with that. I know all my questions sound beyond noob. Thank you very much for all of the help so far.:headbang:

#16 grossgary

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Posted 11 July 2007 - 10:17 AM

It is within about 1/2 inch/12mm and I could draw it up tight with the bolts but I don't like the idea of doing it that way. Does this sound like a concern?:confused:

YOU ARE WISE!!! people do this and crack their internal auto trans oil pump, basically ruining the transmission unless you're up for a trans tear down.

pull the engine back out, seat the TC in the transmission, install engine, then install TC bolts through the bellhousing access hole under the throttle body (rubber plug inserts here...if yours still has one!). don't strip them.

to seat the TC: rotate the converter around by hand clockwise, then pull it out ever so slightly out and rotate it counterclockwise a hair, then push back in. keep doing this and eventually it will engage properly. i usually take a measurement before i start this process of the TC sitting there idle. then when it seats i can visually see it go in that last 1/4" and i'm happy.

#17 AZTOAK

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Posted 12 July 2007 - 04:34 AM

Ok thanks, I think I got it in, it feels like 3 clicks. Tried the torque converter dozens of times to see if I ever got a different result. It is much better now, the engine is only about 2 to 3 mm away from the tranny when I mate them.

I still didn't like this so I pulled the engine back out. Tried the torque converter several more times with the same result, which feels like its seated good when I spin it.

Now I am looking at the starter, and I pull the starter shaft onto the tc gear to see how it looks there. The starter gear only mates to the tc gear about half way. I can see from the wear marks on both gears that they are supposed to engage fully. I don't have a good feeling about it. :mad: I got some really good pics. to show but I can't find my cord right now, I will have to try to post them when I can.

#18 AZTOAK

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Posted 12 July 2007 - 08:15 PM

Bump. Any thoughts? I am working on it tonight again. I am about ready to just bolt it in and stop questioning myself (and others:) ). Thx. :burnout:

#19 AZTOAK

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Posted 12 July 2007 - 09:51 PM

Ok, i just stopped by the biggest indipendent-soob shop here. I talked to thier best mechanic. I explained everything I was seeing and that I still had 3mm to go to get them together. He said, did you see something that looks like a huge clip inside the tranny, I said yes. I'm sure you all know the rest. I didn't know there was a sleeve with a clip that went on the tc. Hopefully thats all it is and there is no damage to it. I will tell you in a few hours. Thx for all of the help. :headbang: I think I want a soob of my own, I have always admired them.:)

#20 AZTOAK

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Posted 13 July 2007 - 12:44 AM

I retrieved the tube that goes to the tranny pump and the bent retaining clip. The clip is fubar'd.:dead: Now I'm gonna have to return the cherry picker I rented and get it again after I get the clip.:banghead: Well I think this problem is solved, I have to go away for the w/e, on monday I should be able to get back to the real issue of the swap.:)

#21 grossgary

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Posted 14 July 2007 - 05:24 AM

that clip is a subaru only item, you probably figured that. that's usually not a problem, usually comes out easily with the torque converter and goes right back in as an assembly no problem.

the first generation of 4EAT's had a ring seal around the exterior of that tube. check the parts sheets when you go to order one and see if it's on the newer ones as well. you might want to replace that. subaru calls it a "ring seal". it's a very odd piece.




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