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91 loyale torq bind, is it the end of the world ?


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18 replies to this topic

#1 ivantruckman

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Posted 23 July 2007 - 07:13 AM

i have a 91 loyale 4x4 auto, i think it has a torq bind problem. you can push it about 1/4 turn and it locks up, haven't gotten the engine running yet. is this torq bind hard to fix ? the body is very nice , no rust 140 k miles, great interior. i need an opinion from the subaru gods. thanks in advance

#2 backwoodsboy

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Posted 23 July 2007 - 08:03 AM

Loyale?

I thought all the A/T Loyales were FWD with pushbutton 4WD?

You should be running it in FWD unless youre offroad (or in snow) .....and not be getting torque-bind, that is only on the Legacy A/Ts.

#3 zyewdall

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Posted 23 July 2007 - 08:53 AM

Loyale?

I thought all the A/T Loyales were FWD with pushbutton 4WD?

You should be running it in FWD unless youre offroad (or in snow) .....and not be getting torque-bind, that is only on the Legacy A/Ts.


Yeah, as far as I know, the loyales are all 4 wheel drive, not all wheel drive, so are not affected by torq bind (or you could say they are permanently affected by torq bind, just like any 4 wheel drive you drive on a hard surface in 4wd)

#4 MilesFox

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Posted 23 July 2007 - 11:06 AM

put power to the bvattery and turn off the 4wd button. the car may have to roll to disengage. but it must be in 4wd right now

#5 ivantruckman

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Posted 23 July 2007 - 11:30 AM

thanks "fox dude", and" backwoodsboy" . and "Zman" it is indeed a 4 wheel drive, and the battery is very dead. i will try today to power it up and disengage it, it must be stuck in 4 w d. as foxman said, never had a 4x4 subie before . had a mild panic attack when i read about torq bind doing a search on old threads,thanks a bunch,

#6 zyewdall

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Posted 23 July 2007 - 01:36 PM

put power to the bvattery and turn off the 4wd button. the car may have to roll to disengage. but it must be in 4wd right now


isn't it vacuum driven, which means you need the engine running to switch states, not just a good battery?

Z

#7 ivantruckman

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Posted 23 July 2007 - 01:40 PM

oh crap i think its a vacuum solenoid thats 12 volt fired
oh boy, more checking, thanks for the heads up

#8 zyewdall

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Posted 23 July 2007 - 01:48 PM

oh crap i think its a vacuum solenoid thats 12 volt fired
oh boy, more checking, thanks for the heads up


Yeah, you're going to have to get it running I think. But the good news is that theres probably nothing wrong with the 4 wheel drive.

Z

#9 88RxTuner

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Posted 23 July 2007 - 02:18 PM

1st, yes, it is a vacuum driven actuator. This does not reduce all chance of getting it out of 4wd without starting the engine, however...

You should be able to remove the spare tire (if it's there) and look down at the top of the trans. On the driver side, there's a large vacuum motor bolted to the side of the trans. Follow the cable coming out of it to the lever on the other side of the trans... manually move the lever the other way from where it is. (may help to have an assistant to a) hold clutch in or B) bump car fwd and back to reduce the bind on the lever.)

Hope this helps.. this will let you roll the vehicle without having to get it started.

#10 nipper

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Posted 23 July 2007 - 02:21 PM

1st, yes, it is a vacuum driven actuator. This does not reduce all chance of getting it out of 4wd without starting the engine, however...

You should be able to remove the spare tire (if it's there) and look down at the top of the trans. On the driver side, there's a large vacuum motor bolted to the side of the trans. Follow the cable coming out of it to the lever on the other side of the trans... manually move the lever the other way from where it is. (may help to have an assistant to a) hold clutch in or B) bump car fwd and back to reduce the bind on the lever.)

Hope this helps.. this will let you roll the vehicle without having to get it started.


If you dont have an assistant just jack up one wheel of the car off the ground. This will unload the 4wd.

nipper

#11 Gloyale

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Posted 23 July 2007 - 11:44 PM

1st, yes, it is a vacuum driven actuator. This does not reduce all chance of getting it out of 4wd without starting the engine, however...

You should be able to remove the spare tire (if it's there) and look down at the top of the trans. On the driver side, there's a large vacuum motor bolted to the side of the trans. Follow the cable coming out of it to the lever on the other side of the trans... manually move the lever the other way from where it is. (may help to have an assistant to a) hold clutch in or B) bump car fwd and back to reduce the bind on the lever.)


None of this applies. AUTOMATIC it doesn't have a solenoid/lever/gear activated 4wd. All 4wd transfer is done within the 3spd trans via a hydraulic clutch pack. Excactly the same concept as the full time units except pressure is only supplied to the clutch for 4wd operation and only at full pressure(AWD auto units regulate variable pressure to the clutch)

Unless the clutch is seized inside the trans(unlikely) then it is not in 4wd because the 4wd only operates when supplied with pressure from the trans pump.(engine must be running)

I don't think the trans is any part of you're starting issue, if that's what you're having.

What's the problem again?

#12 MilesFox

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 12:20 AM

make sure all the tires are the same size all the way around. torque bind will be caused by driving in 4wd on dry pavement, or a difference in tire size vs the front and rear axles both laterally or diagonally

#13 nipper

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 10:16 AM

None of this applies. AUTOMATIC it doesn't have a solenoid/lever/gear activated 4wd. All 4wd transfer is done within the 3spd trans via a hydraulic clutch pack. Excactly the same concept as the full time units except pressure is only supplied to the clutch for 4wd operation and only at full pressure(AWD auto units regulate variable pressure to the clutch)

Unless the clutch is seized inside the trans(unlikely) then it is not in 4wd because the 4wd only operates when supplied with pressure from the trans pump.(engine must be running)

I don't think the trans is any part of you're starting issue, if that's what you're having.

What's the problem again?


The original poster said its a 4wd loyale, so we ahve to go by what he says ...

http://www.cars101.c...tml#1992 Loyale

also says there that its push button on the fly 4wd.

nipper

#14 Gloyale

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 11:08 AM

i have a 91 loyale 4x4 auto i think it has a torq bind problem. you can push it about 1/4 turn and it locks up, haven't gotten the engine running yet. is this torq bind hard to fix ? the body is very nice , no rust 140 k miles, great interior. i need an opinion from the subaru gods. thanks in advance


This is the original post. States clearly it is an automatic.

Ivan, unless the clutch pack is totally welded toghether inside, there is zero possibility of it being in 4wd (it's not meshed gears, it's a clutch that requires pressure from a running pump)

It is on the fly pushbutton 4wd(even more so that the Manuals). The button activates a solenoid in the trans to open and send pressure to the transfer clutch. Nice because it's almost instant 4wd engagement.

If you can't get it to roll even in neutral, it's something else.

#15 nipper

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 11:19 AM

This is the original post. States clearly it is an automatic.

Ivan, unless the clutch pack is totally welded toghether inside, there is zero possibility of it being in 4wd (it's not meshed gears, it's a clutch that requires pressure from a running pump)

It is on the fly pushbutton 4wd(even more so that the Manuals). The button activates a solenoid in the trans to open and send pressure to the transfer clutch. Nice because it's almost instant 4wd engagement.

If you can't get it to roll even in neutral, it's something else.


Ok you made it sound like you were talking about a gen2 clutchpack.

nipper

#16 Gloyale

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 11:23 AM

Ok you made it sound like you were talking about a gen2 clutchpack.

nipper


3AT's clutch pack is virtually the same in function. only difference in operation is that it get's either no pressure(2wd), or full pressure(4wd). There is no modulation of the pressure to allow for "slip". But just as with the 4EAT, no running pump= clutch pack engagement= no 4wd transfer.

#17 nipper

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 02:02 PM

SO it sounds like his clutchpack is fused together.

nipper

#18 ivantruckman

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 02:57 PM

wow awsome response to my question, thank you all... this loyale is a 3 speed auto, when i went to push it (non running) the front wheels were binding after bout 1/4 turn, i removed the rear drive shaft. and it easily rolled up the ramps to the tow dolly. i will try to get it running today. I'm sure with the info i can at least get it running, thanks again for all the responses, you guys rock:headbang:

#19 Hondasucks

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 10:01 PM

1st, yes, it is a vacuum driven actuator. This does not reduce all chance of getting it out of 4wd without starting the engine, however...


No it's not! the MANUAL trannies are vacuum actuated, the autos have an electronic solenoid that activates a clutch pack in the transfer case, and I am pretty sure that no power = 2WD power = 4WD (Works basically the same as the newer AWD A/T except it's either on or off as activated by a switch, rather than duty-cycle controlled by a computer...)




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