86BRATMAN Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 the TZ102Z2ABA is from a 96 outback, it could be 2.5 or 2.2, 96 Outbacks with the ej22 stock are manuals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2.5GL Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 And finally the grooves, repaired. #1. The grooves in the hub teeth. (hub shown removed from the transmission.) #2. Grinding the teeth down to eliminate the groove, #3. The difference between grooves and no grooves. #4. Top profile of hub with grooves removed. #5. Close-up view. Any more definition needed? I still have my camera here and the trans available. Lewis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 Wow excellent pics. Thanks for doing the pics as attachments so they'll always be here. I'm learning a lot from this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron917 Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 Excellent work, thank you! What's the best way to pull that hub/gear/shaft assembly out of the tranny? I assume there are some seals that go with it as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2.5GL Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 Excellent work, thank you! What's the best way to pull that hub/gear/shaft assembly out of the tranny? I assume there are some seals that go with it as well? A small pry-bar or similar will pull the hub from tranny housing. Just be smart as to where you pry, and how much. It usually comes out easy. Post #52, pic #4 shows the shaft of the hub with two seals (white) on the shaft. I have not had an issue requiring these to be replaced, ever. (unless, of course, you mess them up...) Lewis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steamin53 Posted September 13, 2007 Author Share Posted September 13, 2007 Absolutely spectacular response. Lewis "You're the Man". Best thread on the site! Thanks to all. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2.5GL Posted September 14, 2007 Share Posted September 14, 2007 Thanks for the recognition... I'm just trying to help out a bit. BTW, How has it worked out for ya? Lewis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steamin53 Posted September 20, 2007 Author Share Posted September 20, 2007 Thanks for the recognition... I'm just trying to help out a bit. BTW, How has it worked out for ya? Lewis. We pulled the extension case on the donor tranny today. Let me refer to the two parts that drive the clutches and receive torque from the clutches as the drive drum (attached to the trans) and the driven drum (inside which the clutch plates are mounted). The transmission is said to have 73K miles on it. It came from a vehicle with wiring harness issues that was not wrecked. The driven drum does indeed have grooves in it from the clutches but not as deep as in the photographs posted by you; especially not toward the rear (aft) of the transmission where they are barely visible. I conclude that some portion of the clutch pack remains interfaced with the teeth (sprockets) of the driven gear even when the vehicle is not in AWD mode. I don't recall the actual distribution of torque to the front and read differentials in that condition but I know there is some torque to the rear all the time. As such, since the grooves are not significant toward the rear I am going to risk putting it in without smoothing out any of the grooves. I MAY RUE THE DAY I DECIDED TO DO THIS. I am as a matter of course, changing the duty solenoid and the attached valve body. I was surprised to see that the one I ordered came with the valve body too so since I already have it I'll install it. At this time I'm waiting for another gasket for the plate beneath the valve body as the plate gasket stuck to the old valve body and without knowing it I removed the gasket on the bottom of the plate by error. Had I known the plate had stuck to the valve body, I could have separated it and saved the bottom gasket. We should have it together next week. I do intend to fix the tranny I've taken out of my car or at minimum the tailshaft assembly. Thanks again for your help. I'll keep y'all posted. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steamin53 Posted September 20, 2007 Author Share Posted September 20, 2007 One more thing. FYI I had considered replacing the drive drum to remove the grooves without grinding mine. With the help of good ole Emily at CCR in Denver, I located one with a transmission parts firm reconditioned for $75.00. They guarantee as new condition. (I don't really think your old Em) It seems that they are sold with the transmission output shaft as part of the assembly. I think it's odd that that is the case as the drum clearly mounts on a splined section of the output shaft and one can clearly see an internal retaining ring holding it in place. Subaru prices the part new at ~$175.00 at subaruofdallas.com using the internet discount. I didn't want to take down my tranny and void the "junk yard" warranty even though it isn't long term. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steamin53 Posted September 26, 2007 Author Share Posted September 26, 2007 One more thing. FYI I had considered replacing the drive drum to remove the grooves without grinding mine. With the help of good ole Emily at CCR in Denver, I located one with a transmission parts firm reconditioned for $75.00. They guarantee as new condition. (I don't really think your old Em) It seems that they are sold with the transmission output shaft as part of the assembly. I think it's odd that that is the case as the drum clearly mounts on a splined section of the output shaft and one can clearly see an internal retaining ring holding it in place. Subaru prices the part new at ~$175.00 at subaruofdallas.com using the internet discount. I didn't want to take down my tranny and void the "junk yard" warranty even though it isn't long term. Steve Well scratch that. The transmission supply house can't provide what I need. They do have the output shaft with the clutch (driven) drum but can't get the shaft with the driving drum. FYI the Subaru part number for the shaft and driving gear is 31458AA001 and is listed as Shaft Assy. Reduction Drive. This part is available for less than $200. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steamin53 Posted October 15, 2007 Author Share Posted October 15, 2007 Replacement tranny in. I changed the duty solenoid for good measure and everything is working great. $466 for the tranny with 70K miles on it; about $150 for a new duty solenoid and other misc. parts; and $350 to R&R the tranny (I'm too old to do that stuff lying on my back). Less than $1,000 to refurb the car with a much newer 70K vs. 211K trans. Not bad I'd guess. Apparently I was right in assuming that some wear on the drums was acceptable as there is no torque bind. Now I will do the torque bind fix on the working tranny I removed from the car and will offer it for sale or look for a car needing that trans and perhaps get a good deal together. Thanks again all. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenleg88 Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 We're experiencing torque bind in our 96 Legacy Outback. 200K miles plus on this car. No question that torque bind is the problem. I've put the appropriate fuse in the FWD fuse holder and am puzzled by the outcome. SOMETIMES the FWD light on the dash will illuminate and the rear drive-train disengages...but sometimes not. Sometimes when starting the day and the vehicle is cool the FWD illuminates as described but after a drive of 10-15 miles it goes out and the rear again locks up. Sometimes it doesn't disengage at all when initially started and stays that way through the day. The intermittent nature of this makes me wonder if the transmission controller isn't malfunctioning as well as the duty solenoid C. Does anyone have any experience with this intermittent symptom? I'm not meaning to be rude in any way but PLEASE, I don't need speculation I need verified experience. This isn't the time for opinions. I'm really frustrated by this problem. Steve i similarly have this problem. cept in my case i have never seen the fwd light come on on the dash.. where is it? and does that mean my solenoid C is done as well? or is there another possible reason...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 i similarly have this problem. cept in my case i have never seen the fwd light come on on the dash.. where is it? and does that mean my solenoid C is done as well? or is there another possible reason...? Means the bulb may be burned out of broken. The FWD light will be under the tach. It is on when the FWD fuse is inserted. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2.5GL Posted August 21, 2008 Share Posted August 21, 2008 i similarly have this problem. cept in my case i have never seen the fwd light come on on the dash.. where is it? and does that mean my solenoid C is done as well? or is there another possible reason...? Aside from the FWD light on and off, I would consider this to be the worst case scenario. Replace the tail housing, grind the afore mentioned teeth, and replace solenoid "C", and the two seals on the rear output shaft that transmit hydraulic power to the clutches, they are white-ish in color, square-cut, and placed in grooves that are on the shaft of the hub. Lewis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigbusa Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 Great thread. Thanks for all the info here. My 96 impreza OBS will be happy I found this thread! I'll be diving into the repairs within the next few weeks. My only question is where is the best place to buy the parts? The selonoid, the gaskets and whatever else I'll need to fix this torque bind. I'd like to buy the parts from someone who knows exactly what parts I'll need when I tell them I'm replacing the duty C selonoid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 Great thread. Thanks for all the info here. My 96 impreza OBS will be happy I found this thread! I'll be diving into the repairs within the next few weeks. My only question is where is the best place to buy the parts? The selonoid, the gaskets and whatever else I'll need to fix this torque bind. I'd like to buy the parts from someone who knows exactly what parts I'll need when I tell them I'm replacing the duty C selonoid. call an online dealer and they will know exaclty what your talking about. https://www.subarugenuineparts.com/oe_parts_cat.html www.1stsubaru.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigbusa Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 (edited) I printed the above pic and took it out to my car. I finally found the black 6 post connector. It wasn't connected to anything. I assume it is not supposed to be? There are only 3 wires going into the connector. a wire goes in the #1 and 2 positions on the top outside corners and then the 3rd wire (green with yellow stripe) goes in the #5 position. In the pic above it shows many more wires than just 3 going into the connector. The black connector on my car is quite a bit smaller and more square than what the above pic shows but It did have the 2 ground wires taped to it though. I assume I have the correct connector? I first stuck one ground wire pin into #5 hole and my AT temp light did nothing other than what it's always done (16 flashes on start up). I tried it with the key on, off and with the car running. Then, I tried the 2nd ground and still nothing. Then I tried both grounds jammed into the #5 terminal and nothing. The only thing my AT temp light does is flash 16 times and then stops. I cannot get it to give me the long and short flashes so I can figure out what code it is putting out. Am I doing something wrong here? Edited March 12, 2009 by Bigbusa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 Hey big b. I think that diagram might be for ~2000 on up soobs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigbusa Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 Hmmm, That would make sense. My car is a 96. Since this black connector has the 2 ground wires with the long pins on the ends taped to it... it still must be the connector I would use to check the AT temp codes right? I must have to stick one of the ground pins in the #1 or the #2 holes then? I've already ruled out the #5 hole. :-\ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 Hm yah not sure; sometimes the diagnosis connector does a variety of things when various pins are gounded. I have the '96 (Legacy) service manual that maybe I can check out in a bit.....have to take out the garbage and feed the kittehs and wash some towels first though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigbusa Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 thanks porc. Just for kicks I grounded holes #1 and #2. #1 made the airbag light flash. #2 and #5 do nothing. I'm kinda lost here. I have the AT temp light flashing 16 times ...indicating a problem, but I don't know how to extract the code. :-\ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 :looking around: Ok big b but if anyone asks it's your fault the kittehs, laundry, and garbage have to wait hahahehhah Indication of Failure When any on-board diagnostic item is malfunctioning, the display on the AT OIL TEMP indicator blinks immediately after the engine starts. The malfunctioning part or unit can be determined by a trouble code during on-board diagnostic operation. Problems which occurred previously can also be identified through the memory function. If the AT OIL TEMP indicator does not show a problem (although a problem is occurring), the problem can be determined by checking the performance characteristics of each sensor using the select monitor. Indicator signal is as shown in the figure. WARNING: Warning can be noticed only when the engine is initially started. hm..not sure Big b, says "Transmission flash codes are obtained by grounding terminal # 5 of Diagnosis Connector B82, a 6 pole black connector located on right side of steering column, with one of the leads (either one) from the Diagnosis Terminal. " And the diagrams look just like above. http://www.endwrench.com and search 4eat, that have some articles on there, might descirbe 4eat phase I codes better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigbusa Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 (edited) hmmm, I guess I can't diagnose it through that method. Thanks though! If anyone else has any ideas I'd be interested. I'll take some pics of the connector tomorrow. I'm pretty sure I have the right one because it has the 2 ground wires taped to it and it's a 6 pole connector. :-\ Edited March 12, 2009 by Bigbusa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 It can be touchy and doesnt always work. Sometimes you have to surrender and take it to a dealer and have them read it. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigbusa Posted March 12, 2009 Share Posted March 12, 2009 Oh no. No dealers for me. I've learned my lesson too many times. If you want something done right (and inexpensively), do it yourself. I think I read on the other thread that you had a dealer fix your TB issues for $1000? I can't dump that kind of money on a 13 year old 184k mile car. Especially when I need to buy 4 new strut shocks (close to $400) and install them myself in the near future. Maybe I can't check the codes but from what I've read here, the torque bind symptoms all point to the duty C selonoid. I'll head in that direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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