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Guest Message by DevFuse
 

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so a couple of axle questions


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14 replies to this topic

#1 daeron

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Posted 14 August 2007 - 08:23 AM

Allright.. I determined a few weeks ago that a minor front end shimmy that surfaced was caused by a bad DOJ passenger side.. the boot has been blown out since before I got the car, and I have had it for three years and 40K miles.

Anyhow, I slopped some grease and the shimmy more or less went away.. I am now feeling a different sort of twitch, and also hearing a "cv joint creak" when I make sharp turns, but the creak sounds more like its coming from the wheelside CV joint on the driver side?? I can't be certain of this, and the other boots on the car are all in good shape. Car has 140K on it, and the outer boot on driver said said "rockford," no idea what that means. No real reason to suspect they are anything but OEM axles, but cant tell.

So what are the odds that the CV on the driver axle decided to go at the same time as the DOJ with busted boot on the passenger side, versus.. what are the odds that the passenger DOJ is making a creaky-clack noise during sharp turns that could be mistaken by the driver to sound like they're coming from the driver side wheel? The CV in question feels OK with the car jacked up, no excessive play in any axial direction, and zero play radially compared to the wheel...

Basically all my drivetrain experience thus far has been limited to drivetrain PROBLEMS I have had, and the only ones I had to fix were on cars with U-joints, not CVs, and also RWD. I just dont *really* know things until they break, heh. I don't know if I am being overly optimistic when I hope that the noises I am hearing are actually from the passenger axle which has a problem that I know needs to be addressed.

#2 grossgary

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Posted 14 August 2007 - 09:36 AM

axles tend to make all sorts of various noises particularly the fronts and particularly ones exposed to air, dirt and heat...which the one you speak of gets much of. i wouldn't be surprised at all if this axle is causing noises. it should be obvious which side the creaking is coming from, if not then it must be in the center, trans side of the axle, which would probably be your passengers side that's already bad. i dont' have good hearing and i've always been able to tell which cide CV is making a noise...speaking of outer joints (wheel side).

Allright.. I determined a few weeks ago that a minor front end shimmy that surfaced was caused by a bad DOJ passenger side.. the boot has been blown out since before I got the car, and I have had it for three years and 40K miles.

i'm all for running cv axles as long as possible, but if this is the joint closest to the trans, i would advise replacing this axle soon. that vibration and shaking will destroy the inner gear that drives the speedometer. it's a plastic gear and all the vibration does not do it any favors. i guess it might matter which side the axle is on and which side that speedometer driven gear is on...i believe it's the passengers side but i'm not positive. fixing that plastic speedometer driven gera requires replacing the entire transmission unless you want to disassemble the front differential which is quite a task. from my experience - clicking is no big deal. vibrations and shaking - not a good thing.

this being the case, i'd go ahead and replace that p/s axle as soon as possible then see if the noise disappears.

#3 daeron

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Posted 14 August 2007 - 09:49 AM

axles tend to make all sorts of various noises particularly the fronts and particularly ones exposed to air, dirt and heat...which the one you speak of gets much of. i wouldn't be surprised at all if this axle is causing noises. it should be obvious which side the creaking is coming from, if not then it must be in the center, trans side of the axle, which would probably be your passengers side that's already bad. i dont' have good hearing and i've always been able to tell which cide CV is making a noise...speaking of outer joints (wheel side).

i'm all for running cv axles as long as possible, but if this is the joint closest to the trans, i would advise replacing this axle soon. that vibration and shaking will destroy the inner gear that drives the speedometer. it's a plastic gear and all the vibration does not do it any favors. i guess it might matter which side the axle is on and which side that speedometer driven gear is on...i believe it's the passengers side but i'm not positive. fixing that plastic speedometer driven gera requires replacing the entire transmission unless you want to disassemble the front differential which is quite a task. from my experience - clicking is no big deal. vibrations and shaking - not a good thing.

this being the case, i'd go ahead and replace that p/s axle as soon as possible then see if the noise disappears.



Huzzah! thanks for the heads up. I was planning on disassembling and trying to see if I could just hit the JY up for a few replacement parts and not have to yank the axle out on the wheel side at all... I haven't looked at it on the jack long enough to see how I plan on taking it apart, but someone on another axle thread told me it was easy enough to do by simply unbolting the LCA and pivoting the hub assembly outwards after removing the pin. I can't find this thread; but I have been around a chassis before; I don't anticipate difficulty in figuring out how to do the DOJ reman without undoing the wheel side..

I figured if I can use "new" seemingly OEM parts to re-manufacture my seemingly OEM shaft, and get a new boot, I should be about as good as a remanufactured shaft.. in any case I need to buy some time before I buy an axle; I am sure the pieces I need will be cheap enough at the boneyard.

The devilish counted splines (the dreaded, "do i have 23 or 25? why cant I figure out the search function? HELP ME!" of newbie post fame) ARE at the other end of the axle, correct? wheelside?

#4 Gloyale

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Posted 14 August 2007 - 10:02 AM

The devilish counted splines (the dreaded, "do i have 23 or 25? why cant I figure out the search function? HELP ME!" of newbie post fame) ARE at the other end of the axle, correct? wheelside?


No the 23/25 spline difference is at the Trans/DOJ end. Just don't get parts for a Turbo car, and you'll be fine. You have 23 spline.

There are a total of 3 different joints used for these axles though. Look at you're current shafts. In the middle, exposed portion of the axleshaft, there should be *pads* or ridges. These identify which axle type you have. Make sure you get you're parts from a matching axle.

1 pad= 82-AC, used in Carbed 2wd cars(23 spline, will fit but is the smallest weakest joint)

2 pad= 87-AC, used in 2wd FI, and 4wd Carbed(23 spline, will fit, but also is a smaller joint but with cooling grooves on DOJ housing)

3 pads= 95-AC, used in 4wd FI, and all turbos(the 95-AC axle is available in both 23 and 25 spline. 23 spline for all non-turbo 4wd, and 2wd 3AT Turbo. 25 for all other Turbo)

I'd try to get the 3 padded 95-AC axle. Just make sure you get it form a non turbo, or 3spd turbo car, with 23 splines.

#5 Reveeen

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Posted 14 August 2007 - 10:13 AM

the outer boot on driver said said "rockford," no idea what that means

http://www.rockforddriveline.com/

A supplier of parts (they are the sole source of "staked in" U-Joint replacements)

#6 daeron

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Posted 14 August 2007 - 10:17 AM

2 pad= 87-AC, used in 2wd FI, and 4wd Carbed(23 spline, will fit, but also is a smaller joint but with cooling grooves on DOJ housing)

..

I'd try to get the 3 padded 95-AC axle. Just make sure you get it form a non turbo, or 3spd turbo car, with 23 splines.


first off, real quick (ive looked on one side but not the other, im running driveway to PC and back heh) I noticed no pads on the shaft of the PS axle, but by cooling grooves on DOJ housing are you referring to the "crown" shaped affair right at the trans output, above the cylindrical housing of the DOJ? If so then "pads" or no, this is the one I have..

and secondly, are you telling me that I need to get matching parts for the joint that I have, or that it would be best to get the beefier joint, as long as it will fit between my trans and my axle shaft?

Reveen: is that a safe bet that these are NOT OEM axles then? that was more or less my meaning by "no idea what that means," I was unsure if that was liable to be an OEM selection or if that was probably an aftermarket boot, or more....


EDIT I ran back and looked at the driver side axle shaft, and the only thing on either of them that resembles a pad is a single raised ring about an inch up from the outer CV joint boot. is that the "pad" you're talking about? The more I think about it the more I think I have read this before.

#7 Gloyale

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Posted 14 August 2007 - 10:27 AM

If you are st on just replacing parts, then you need to get parts form a matching axle.

If you are going to get a replacement axle, then I would try to get one of the beefier ones(look it up as a 9x loyale 4wd)

#8 daeron

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Posted 14 August 2007 - 10:30 AM

If you are st on just replacing parts, then you need to get parts form a matching axle.

If you are going to get a replacement axle, then I would try to get one of the beefier ones(look it up as a 9x loyale 4wd)

good answer. Danke.

#9 Gloyale

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Posted 14 August 2007 - 10:33 AM

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#10 daeron

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Posted 14 August 2007 - 10:38 AM

posted a link to that post for submission as an appendix to ed rach's axle guide thread, and went and made sure it was in ed rach's axle guide thread as well, for posterity.

Thanks for indulging my lazy, morning off, half fast efforts. :grin:

#11 Reveeen

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Posted 14 August 2007 - 11:11 AM

is that a safe bet that these are NOT OEM axles then?

At the least the boot has been changed, at most it is a re-man, there is really no telling, as was pointed out there are three types that are virtually interchangeable. I *think* a book can be written, or is written out there, about re-building 1/2 shafts (though I have not seen one).

I am a believer of keeping assemblies intact, nothing but trouble seems to come from mixing and matching, unless you are really, really, careful. This mixing and matching is what the run-of-the-mill re-builders do, the results are only as good as the builder is skilled, or cares.

#12 misledxcracker

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Posted 14 August 2007 - 11:22 AM

So now I get into "think mode" and contemplate rebuilding my axle...

#13 daeron

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Posted 14 August 2007 - 04:01 PM

I am a believer of keeping assemblies intact, nothing but trouble seems to come from mixing and matching, unless you are really, really, careful. This mixing and matching is what the run-of-the-mill re-builders do, the results are only as good as the builder is skilled, or cares.

Thanks for the input, and I will certainly keep that in mind.

I have had jobs rebuilding and repairing various stuffs in the past, most notably a tool repair shop where I was working on hydraulics, air tools, and welders/battery chargers... The simplest of the workbenches in the shop, yes, but every job has its tricky bits.

Anyhow, I know I am not working on my Huffy here... :grin: and I certainly do not imagine any mind boggling long-life out of my homebrew "reman" axle, but my plan is to take my axle apart, examine it, regrease it and put it back together if possible, go out to boneyard, and find the bits I need.

If, in the end, I "need" to replace the entire axle with the JY axle, I shall; if I can get away without it I would rather go that route.

My big motivation is this: when I had to do the rear brakes at 110K, the bearings slowly wound up dying one at a time, at a BAD time for me. Right now is also a bad time for me; and I don't feel like doing bearings on the front even if I COULD afford them. (A "new" axle is similarly out of my league; i just cant find a gainful job down here and its getting old, but thats a whole nother, "dont wanna leave my hometown even though the inflation has destroyed it" story.) SO, if I can avoid taking the bearing assemble apart, SO much the better.

#14 Reveeen

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Posted 15 August 2007 - 04:25 AM

I certainly do not imagine any mind boggling long-life out of my homebrew "reman" axle,

The life you get depends ENTIRELY on you. Careful dis-assembly and cleaning, full inspection and re-assembly in a reasonably clean enviorment, these things are as picky as the worst carburetor you have had apart. Rust is the killer of these things, any sign of rust (past and present), and you are looking at scrap.

if possible, go out to boneyard, and find the bits I need.

As I said, try to keep the assemblies together: ie: complete outer joint, complete inner joint. Get familiar with the parts, at one point you will end up with a couple of bad ones that, after you have done a few and built some confidence/experience, you can try mix and match. Don't throw anything out, if you drive/own a Subaru you will be here again.

This is not really hard, it is simply that you lack the experience, and the only way to get it is to "get dirty".

#15 daeron

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 06:13 AM

This is not really hard, it is simply that you lack the experience, and the only way to get it is to "get dirty".


Hit the nail right on the head.

Thanks for the analogy, and the advice. Good to know what flavor job I am getting into.

I "rebuilt" my starter by simply disassembling and reassmbling, and with three semi functional, utterly worn down brushes and one totally frozen one my "rebuild" made it last through four months of delivering pizzas, almost NEVER hesitating to cut the car off.. so figure, fifteen starts per day average, five days a week, for eighteen weeks.. thats almost 1500 starts before it finally crapped out on me. :clap:

Anyhow, I will try to take lots of pictures.. but dirty jobs like this arent easy to document.




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